Tillhill of Coed LLandegla fame have a possible project in Lancs, it would seem you jammy bstards over in Lancs might be getting a £million(ish) spent on another new forest trail centre and facilities. That's a big heap of money, if you compare that to the new phase 1 Gisburn trail development which was only £135,000 + donated materials and volunteer labour. 😀

christ why don't they spend any of this money on developing trail centres in the south.

We might not have the altitude gain that you can get elsewhere but we still have the number riders who would use it 😮

I guess the intention is to attract up north you southern types, with your large bulging wallets, to come and stay in hotels and B&Bs, eat out etc etc and ride the trails.

I can't afford to do that down south let along with the added cost of getting up north 🙁

Woop, good news for us 😀

hi B.A.Nana where did you hear about this and wheres it gonna be?

I'm not revealing my source, but it's the forest between Preston and Clitheroe, Longridge or something like that?

Beacon Fell ?

Tillhill are like the FC, but a private company rather than public/gov. So it's going to be somewhere with big forests, I don't think beacon fell has much forest. If you go on google maps or similar on satallite view, you'll see where I mean.

that link took me to a map of Europe 🙁

yeah sorry it didn't work, zoom inbetween preston and clitheroe, there's only one place (other than Gisburn) with big forest.

yes, I know where Longridge is…

Apparantly the land owner (I don't know who that is), is offering to put up £400k ( 😯 ) if Tillhill can match it. Tillhill will probably apply for funding from the likes of Sport England, North West Development etc etc. so they're in a good position to unlock more funding if they've already got money like that on offer. Also, the 7 stanes project has been successful in making a big contribution to the southern lowlands economic development, so maybe they won't have much trouble getting money if they sell it to the people with the purse strings as a similar project of Gisburn, lee quarry and longridge.

Longridge Fell? That would be pretty sweet if you ask me, and within very reasonable riding distance 🙂

I was up there a few weeks ago, riding through some felled trees on the East of the forest. It had a very trail centre type vibe. There wasn't much of a trail on the ground, but I was at the time imagining some man made singletrack weaving off into the distance.

I'd be interested to hear more about this 🙂

Another trail/trail centre?

No offence but spend the money on proper cycling provisions for the masses. After all MTB'ers/road cyclists/kids/commuters etc can benefit from proper cycle lanes/ideas on the roads.

Benefit for all. I still think a trail centre in the Lakes is madness.

What next, a trail centre in the Peaks?!

How about the Government concentrates on bringing longterm jobs to the regions. Not just leisure-based activities. Good idea but sorry, people need infrastruture/a future not a hobby on their doorstep.

whoops for joy thinking of having Rivvy to himself as everyone goes elswhere.

Not sure about your geog skills hora, but Longridge isnt in the lakes.

Cycle lanes are a farce and utterly useless, in just about any situation. Almost invariably badly placed, dangerous at times, and put in to meet quotas by people with no idea of cycling. They do nothing but make drivers assume you're a retard that needs their own lane and you should stay in it as you're not welcome with the rest of the traffic. Cycle paths separated from the roads by a barrier/kerb are a different matter, but they're far less likely to be done due to the vast cost. I totally disagree about spending cash on cycling on roads, unless it is in driver education, as I feel cyclists should be part of the traffic, not a special group with extra provisions.

However your point is moot, as this is a private venture designed to make cash while encouraging off-road cycling.

Would have been just round the corner had I not moved to Scotland lol.

Whinlatter.

Cyclists should be seperate entity where there are dual lanes/high turnover in traffic etc.

How many more people who get onto a bike and commute to work in there was better provision and it was considered safer?

coffee' its a private venture? Ah so not public money and not linked to/applicable to roads then. Could it be linked to a business application to harvest forest commercially on a new site?
(Thats a question)

that link took me to a map of Europe

Which is where the new trail centre is going to be. 😉

hora – it's "illegal" to ride the footpaths in the lakes, a trail centre is needed to make legal bikeable trails.

Cyclists dont need to be separate entities in dual lanes or high turnover, assuming max of 40mph, after that speedwise I'd suggest a separated cycle paths to keep cars physically away from bikes if the biker needs it. I've been commuting by bike for christ knows how long across christ knows how many roads in different parts of the country, the only time I find it a problem is when there are poorly placed cycle lanes or when drivers drive badly (which I'd find a problem if I was in a car too). What I would suggest is that its a perception of danger and that no more major provision is needed, in fact I'd support the removal of cycle lanes, it's just peoples attitudes need to change.

It could well be linked to harvesting forest, im not privy to that info, but my point was that, assuming it's not millions in tax cash going into it, creation of a trail centre has nothing to do with spending money on road improvements for cycling and isn't the place of private commercial entities.

Good luck getting a land owner to stump up 400k for some cycle lanes 🙄 The plan is surely related to drawing business to the area, helping the economy and possibly creating a few jobs in the process. From the sounds of it, the rest of the funding would be found by the contractors from sources like Sport England, who I imagine have no interest in building a tarmac path so kids can ride to school safely. (I'm not saying things like that are unimportant, but it's not the concern of a body funding facilities for sport development)

Benefit for all. I still think a trail centre in the Lakes is madness.

What next, a trail centre in the Peaks?!

I agree with Hora here, but for a completely different reason I suspect. It goes back to the original reason why FC have had the millions given to spend in South Wales, South Scotland and other places, it's not done for us, it's for the local shops, pubs, hotels, B&Bs, it's about employment and regeneration, not mountain biking. So, in my book, the Lake Distict is about the last place that needs to attract more leisure visitors. However, there will be rural communities on the periferals of the Peak District who would benefit from such projects, so that would actually make more sence to me.

bigsi – Member
christ why don't they spend any of this money on developing trail centres in the south.

http://www.1sw.org.uk/

"£million(ish) spent on another new forest trail centre and facilities. That's a big heap of money, if you compare that to the new phase 1 Gisburn trail development which was only £135,000"
Beware of dealing with a commercial company-their bottom line is making as much profit as humanly possible,not providing decent trails.The reason llandegla is the way it is, is because it's been built in the most economic way possible (cheap construction and low maintenance)and to cater for the widest range of users.
For every £1 given a commercial company is going to take a whacking big chunk to give to their shareholders,whatever is left gets spent on trails.

Thing is, does anyone know just how many businesses benefit from mountain bikers in this way? I mean how many drive there for the day, jump straight back into their car after their ride and drive straight home?

Most B&B's surely arent run by locals and they are run on a shoestring/bare minimum outspend such is that industry.

Camping? Doubt that that is a Farmer/landowners principle or main source of income.

Pubs? Again, are mountain bikers known for knocking back 10 pints each after a long day in the saddle and another the next day?

7stanes, say Inners/Glentress- possibly benefit more due to the size and location of the trails but still. Whenever I have been there (a fair few times) I've made it part of a trip/stay in Edinburgh with friends. Once I stayed in Peebles (just once).

Again, I may be wrong but with surely it is still fairly seasonal- come the winter cold months and numbers would drop markedly.

Mind you…..All these places probably rely on Walkers for the main with mountain bikers being the 'savers' to their businesses.

I'm probably talking utter crap and generalising a fair bit mind. I just think (in general not this private venture) investing in a community- big tax breaks for manufacturers etc would benefit the communities more..

(Ducks)

Whinlatter is good, Llandegla is pretty good too. If you don't like it don't go – some people will moan about anything won't they. (moaning about the NFT is allowed though 😉

Good news, just a shame it's on the wrong side of the pennines.

Was the £135k at Gisburn all spent on the trails or is there some kind of building there too?

I guess most of the £1m for the project you mention would go on the building?

Go to Coed Llandegla on a weekend and see how many BMWs and Audis there are and 30something blokes riding £2000 bikes. I believe trail centres do attract quite large numbers of those businessmen with a bit of money, who will go for the weekend, stay in a pub, buy a bar meal, drink 6 pints then tootle round a trail centre for four hours the next day, and then repeat on the Saturday night/Sunday.

Was the £135k at Gisburn all spent on the trails or is there some kind of building there too?

I guess most of the £1m for the project you mention would go on the building?
£135k was cash spent, it's estimated an additional £45k 'in kind', that's volunteers time, FC employees time and donated materials from FC and others i.e. all the woodwork is built by the FC foresters from FC trees which otherwise they would sell etc etc, so, £180k in total. To my knowledge, all the money went on trails, some of it would have gone to pay Rowan Sorrell for his consultancy and some cash will go towards signage and other bits and pieces, but nothing went on car parks, buildings, facilities.

As I understand it, the longridge project would include all the trimings like at Llandegla, with cafe, toilets, showers, changing rooms etc and very definitely £££ to park your car. Like said above Tilhill and the land owner will have good commercial reasons for doing it.

I guess most of the £1m for the project you mention would go on the building?

If a council had spent that, £800,000 on contracts, risk assesment, paying off two council employees discrimination cases and a diversity report, £50,000 on insurance, £50,000 on two new vehicles and the remaining £50,000 on trails….

JOKE obviously! 😆

whoops for joy thinking of having Rivvy to himself as everyone goes elsewhere

Now you have a taste of 'driving to ride' Johnny you will be there like the rest of us.

Nice to see us poor Northerners getting somat for a change.

You lot in London get £450 billion from the government so stop moaning.

I'm probably talking utter crap

No probably about it, unfortunately.

It's investment in your sport, and if it's private or even part private that's even better; indicating that people from outside the sport see it as something that will give a return, something that is sustainable.

The need for trail centres in the Lakes is open to debate, but again, is a sign that mountain biking is so popular that some way of accomodating some of the visitors would seem to be sensible.

As for the profits for the towns near the 7 stanes….. get a grip fella! Walk down Innerleithens main street and count the cars with bikes, look in the Rosetta campsite in Peebles, try to book a B&B at the last minute; as an economic strategy it works, more so because Mountain Biking is as middle class as you like these days, and therefore very spendy….

I did concede alittle to Peebles ("possibly benefit")…

anyway, Im alittle cynical as I havent exercised today – just doing some pressup/weights to lighten up alittle 🙂

As an aside, of the £135k funding for Gisburn, the landowner, the very wealthy United Utilities,

United Utilities is the UK's largest listed water company. We own, operate and maintain utility assets, including water, wastewater, electricity and gas. We're a FTSE 100 company with a turnover of £2 billion and are the UK's market leader in utility outsourcing.

donated jack sh1t.

donated jack sh1t.

Too busy investing their profits in weapon manufacture I should imagine. And paying my overtime bill.

(Correct me on this please). Didnt a wealthy lad benevolently donate all his Rivi' land to the council who are now UU and no longer owned by the public? 🙁

You lot in London get £450 billion from the government so stop moaning.

Vortex – Thats all very well if you live in London (or one of its suburbs) but most of us don't. I agree that London gets alot of money spent on it but you travel outside of the M25 and its a different story. 🙄

hora – it's "illegal" to ride the footpaths in the lakes
I'll take my chances:)

(Correct me on this please). Didnt a wealthy lad benevolently donate all his Rivi' land to the council who are now UU and no longer owned by the public?
Yes sort of like that – it was donated to the council with the intention of it being open access for all the public in the local area

Longridge eh, just round the corner(ish) for me – surely it can only be good news

Thing is, does anyone know just how many businesses benefit from mountain bikers in this way?

Yes. People who run mountain bike centres like Coed y Brenin know. They do research on the effects of it, and estimate the amount spent. I believe they found that Coed y Brenin for example is a very efficient way of getting tourist money in – the amount they spend on the trails is tiny compared to the amount the area gains from large numbers of people travelling to ride the trails.

Most B&B's surely arent run by locals and they are run on a shoestring/bare minimum outspend such is that industry.

What a weird thing to say, B&Bs not run by locals? It isn't like people who run B&Bs don't live in the area, they live in the house itself? If ever there was an industry run by locals, it is the B&B?

Pubs? Again, are mountain bikers known for knocking back 10 pints each after a long day in the saddle and another the next day?

Erm, yes. Every time I've been to a trail centre, it's been with a group of people, between 10 and 20 of us, and we've probably all had quite a few pints, meals, and stayed in some local accommodation for a couple of nights.

Mind you…..All these places probably rely on Walkers for the main with mountain bikers being the 'savers' to their businesses.

Whilst that might be true of places like Cannock (although there are often *masses* of bikes there, even there it is probably a similar number to walkers), I wonder quite how many people come to places like Coed y Brenin, Penmachno to walk – they're off the beaten track, not at all walker country, without bikers there would be hardly anyone there. I've walked all round the UK, and I know I'd never have bothered going to any of the places where I've been to trail centres.

Again, I may be wrong but with surely it is still fairly seasonal- come the winter cold months and numbers would drop markedly.

Obviously tourist money is seasonal, same as for walking, although I'd be surprised if biking is anywhere near as seasonal as walking, having seen how crowded Coed y Brenin car park gets in October / November. Especially as people like to go to these places for some dryish riding when their local trails are a mud-fest.

I'm probably talking utter crap and generalising a fair bit mind. I just think (in general not this private venture) investing in a community- big tax breaks for manufacturers etc would benefit the communities more..

Well it's lucky that you're not in charge of policy on this kind of thing then, and instead it is run by someone who does research into it, does the cost/benefit analysis, tourism research etc. and generally has more than a completely uninformed load of guesses about how it works financially.

Joe

Pubs? Again, are mountain bikers known for knocking back 10 pints each after a long day in the saddle and another the next day?

Now that is funny!