you don't have to buy new you know; get a one year old job

Goes without saying!

no Turbo lag (cos there’s no turbo see)….

And decent Tdi's nowadays don't have noticable lag anyway.

I have to admit there can be some lag on my Passat, but that's really the fault of the gearbox. You only get it when pulling away from a standstill. If you stick it in sport mode then the revs are always high enough.. but you still don't have as much control over lag as you do in a manual.

In a manual modern TDi it takes no time at all to get used to the shift points that remove lag altogether.

The turbo lag comment was stretching a very minor (almost to the point of non-existent) issue…

As a work colleague pointed out if I wanted a “Passat Class” ~200 BHP, Diesel, Auto (with tiptronic) and a few toys then the Octavia VRS is at least £10K cheaper and is basically a Passat…. Hmmm, might see if I can wangle a go in one of those next….

All of this is academic of course, I’m not buying a new car, I still have a House to purchase and a family to feed/clothe/entertain and as poor as it is the Golf does what is required of it perfectly well, so these musings really should end…

At least £10k cheaper? I only paid £10k for mine 🙂

Octys are Jetta sized tho, considerably smaller than a Passat and nowhere near as plush.

All of this is academic of course

It's a slippery slope.. you've started thinking about it.. it's only a matter of time.

Rubbish. The corners are still the same corners, the car handles well, why on earth would it make a difference?

Of course the corners are the same, its just driving out of them that is crap in a diesel. Each to their own though, my car sits in the driveway during the week and at the weekend mainly gets used for getting to the trails which normally involves a lot of A and B-roads, economy isn't really an issue. My car is usefully quick rather than properly fast but its fun to drive. I've driven a couple of similarly powerful diesels and it just seems like a layer of interaction is removed.

But hey, diesel does have lots of benefits like economy and…

Arguing about driving enjoyment with diesel drivers is a bit like discussing the merits of fillet over sirlion with a vegan

Well richmtb maybe you haven't driven the 202bhp Volvo V70? I have. It's a sequential twin turbo with a pancake flat torque curv (+320lb from 1400-3500rpm) and a power band that doesn't drop off. Not the usual peaky diesel torque curve. It's a very good motorway machine and pretty quick in most situations. Plus plenty big enough for loads of people plus bikes.

To those of you who say "you wouldn't see me dead in that car" because of your preconcieved notions of car=personality. Your lives must be very shallow. Really do you judge all aspects of a person by what they drive?

Of course the corners are the same, its just driving out of them that is crap in a diesel

he he. I have a video somewhere of a friends chipped Golf 2.0 GTTdi leaving a 911 out of a whole load of corners at the ring. The 911 would catch up on the straights, get held up on the corner and then get left as they both accelerated away. All that torque you see.

Bet it was frustrating for the Porsche driver.

its just driving out of them that is crap in a diesel

Only if you've no idea how to use it properly! I honestly fail to see the problem. Lots of torque on demand, I can get out of a corner exactly as I could in a petrol car with the same hp.

Driver interaction removed? That's total twaddle.

The only thing you get with diesels is more low end torque and a bit of turbo lag. Removed interaction? Total nonsense. Press the pedal, it moves sharpish. I just don't see a problem.

It may well be that the car you drove which had a diesel was a worse car than the one you like with a petrol engine in it.. but that's another issue.

Not the usual peaky diesel torque curve.

The peaky torque curve was a specific feature of the VAG PD engine found in Seats, Octys, VWs from more than a few years ago, and Audis. It wasn't true of all diesels, and it's not true of modern ones now 🙂

Well richmtb maybe you haven't driven the 202bhp Volvo V70?

Can't say I've had the pleasure, I have driven a 335d which has just shy of 300hp and is an absolute rocketship, but its still not the most involving car to drive, its like an engineering achievement rather something designed to involve the driver.

I'm not talking about speed, acceleration or grip. Diesels just lack something, maybe its the lower revs, the exhaust note on the overun, the tappity engine noise (although less of an issue these days).

If you don't get what I'm talking about thats fine, I'm not passing judgement but hands up who would buy the diesel if the similarly powerful petrol was just as economical?

Until recently I've only owned rear wheel drive, petrol, manual usually 2 seat cars. I would not buy anything else for fun (let's ignore practicaltity just for now).

Had a Insignia Diesel on hire the other day, a week or two after the petrol version – the petrol one was awful and the diesel was about the best thing I've drive in years – it drove as I would hope the petrol would do, just change up a little earlier. The torque was ludicrous, felt like it could spin the wheels going 4th to 5th. And possibly 6th.

So my preconceptions have had their shoes removed and wee'd in.

However I have definitely got middle age taking me by the neck, have a burning desire for something small, 2 seater, British and utterly unreliable.

Jackets with patches on the elbows next.

If you don't get what I'm talking about thats fine, I'm not passing judgement but hands up who would buy the diesel if the similarly powerful petrol was just as economical?

Sticks hand up…..the extra torque makes a diesel much 'easier' to drive & overtaking on A roads requires much less gearbox stirring, forethought & screaming revs.

For most of my driving sat on the A1, my diesel sits at about 1800rpm. My mate's Corolla T-Sport with 60+ more horsepower is buzzing away nearer 4000rpm and is quite intrusive. In normal driving conditions I can keep up with him with little bother.

If you don't get what I'm talking about thats fine, I'm not passing judgement but hands up who would buy the diesel if the similarly powerful petrol was just as economical?

I had a V50 T5 and I didn't have any problems overtaking at all.

Tried the deisel and it was pretty much the same just not quite as smooth.

Have to agree that cars are just transport they dont "mean" anything.

joolsburger – perhaps, but is your T5 as economical as the diesel??

The original (and rather pointless, due to it not being the case) question was would you still go for a diesel if a similar power petrol was as economical…..

I'd put my hand up too. The quietness of a modern diesel does it for me but then I am an old duffer now. My car and in particular the Insignia whisper along the motorway with barely a sound.

Since Easter I've managed to drive less than 100 miles. It's a bit annoying actually as I got one of the iPhone apps for working out real world mpg, but I filled the car up on 25th May and the needle's only just come down to full and its still claiming to have 580 miles left on that tank.
Anyway I have a diesel estate car. It seems to go and stop and go round corners ok, although I thought that 39,000 miles for a set of front tyres was a bit shabby.

It's not what you drive it's how you drive it, never forget my old man upsetting my ex bro in law who was in his fully specced impreza, the old boy was in his 850 Volvo tank. They decided to see who was first back to ours one night. My old man to quote " went the long way round" to avoid any silly overtaking, as boyo pulled up outside ours, the old boy was walking up the pavement smiling.

wrightyson – classic

I guess by that definition I became middle aged when I came down from Fort William overtaking everything and had to stop in Tyndrum cos passenger wanted the loo – every overtaken car had passed again before I had even locked the car door

Tho I thought becoming middle aged was defined by

1. Listening to Radio 2
2. Buying a 3 piece suite
3. Starting to wear slippers

But then I'm well past middle aged in everything but my my mind 😛

Is your Lycra beige………………

Honestly Steveb it's true! Mr impreza who also had the jacket to match his car was utterly shell shocked. He knew both ways back and thought he would pish it! My old man is a ledgend tho!

I drive an old diesel because it cost 500 quid and does 50mpg

I have definitely got middle age taking me by the neck, have a burning desire for something small, 2 seater, British and utterly unreliable.

A DFS sofa bed, perhaps?

Perhaps I have at least taken a step back toward earlier middle age having just gone from a base model diesel Passat to an E39 BMW 525d Touring – which I quite like in comparison 🙂

With one seat down can still easily get 3 bikes and their owners inside.