Just had the wind taken out of my sails somewhat.

I’ve been trying to communte in from home to work, maybe a couple of times a week. Its a 40 mile journey all round, mix of urban and A roads (Strathaven, through East Kilbride, Rutherglen, then Glasgow, for those that know it.)

The roads can be a bit busy but I stick to cycle lanes where I can, ride fairly defensively, though accomodating motorists when I can, and stick to the Highway Code. No red light jumping for me!

Why do I do it? A mix of things; fitness, enjoyment, saving money and wear and tear on my car, keeping my weight down (I’m 44), busting stress, and keeping me fit and presentable for the wife and 2 daughters, 9 and 6 respectively.

All good, or so I thought- yeah, there’s some risk, but there’s more at my age from sitting about and watching the weight climb with all its attendant health detriments. Tried a gym- good, but too artificial.

So I was rather surprised that a colleague in all seriousness called me irresponsible. Apparently, I’m not considering my daughters should I be killed in an RTA, which “everyone” knows is somehow likely.

Well.

Retorts?

i’d offer a fairly simple retort…

Not worth a retort IMO

we all take calculated risks, driving a car is a pretty high one.

Isn’t cycling roughly as dangerous as walking in terms of deaths per km (used to be safer than walking but overtook it recently)?

This chart is a bit old but illustrates it nicely:

— from http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/2437/cycling/death-rates-by-mode-of-transport/

Does he call anyone that walks or uses a motorbike “irresponsible”?

Assuming he has children, ask him if he drives a car, goes on holiday by aeroplane, uses stairs, eats seafood or generally ever leaves his house. If he does any of these things tell him he’s being irresponsible. Also, tell him to mind his own business.

Hmm, if you’re irresponsible I’m even more so! I do a similar 56 mile round trip to London from Hampshire, same type of roads, same type of riding. I’m 34 and have two kids under 3.

It’s likely that any conversation entered in to with people such as this won’t result in any epiphany despite being armed with stats, facts, etc… Ultimately (in my experience) these people have their ideas and won’t change them despite a wealth of evidence that contradicts or at least pours doubt on their point of view. On that basis, I tend to avoid getting into a debate with them, or if you fancy a laugh just agree with them!

The back road from starthaven is pretty quiet to clarkston and then road to glasgow is busy but OK to cycle on.

It might add a few miles and hills to your commute.

You could do the above route but jump on the train at thorntonhall and this would miss out all the busy roads.

Or you could just tell your colleague where to go

So I was rather surprised that a colleague in all seriousness called me irresponsible.

far more responsible to die of a coronary at 50 imo. 👿

EDIT: are people who say things like that justifying their terrible driving around cyclists?

Assuming he has children, ask him if he drives a car, goes on holiday by aeroplane, uses stairs, eats seafood or generally ever leaves his house. If he does any of these things tell him he’s being irresponsible. Also, tell him to mind his own business

+1

Unfortunately it’s difficult to make the hard of thinking see things differently.

Some official stats.

Chart 5 on this doc is what you want, it shows deaths per billion vehicle miles:
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/releases/road-accidents-and-safety-annual-report-2010/rrcgb2010-01.pdf

Maybe he just meant your route. The strathaven to ek road is pretty dodgy.

My mother gets all worried because I now cycle into work every day. It’s less than two miles, and all on 30mph limit roads.

She says I should drive in. 😐

Thanks all, good stats and opinions and even some suggested routes! Awesome.

I was quite annoyed to be honest. PB- you might be right. A few weeks ago, another colleague who sites very close by and drives a very fast car was regaling us with the speeds that they took some of the corners on that road, which as you know is an NSL.

The look on my face seemed to dry them up.

Cody,

Its quite frankly amazing that you have lived to 44 with that level of reckless abandon! You probably aren’t going to get many people supporting her (tell me I’m right and this level of concern for your daughters didn’t come from a man) viewpoint on here – perhaps ask on Mumsnet if you want anyone to give a ‘non-cyclists’ viewpoint.

GrahamS’ data does highlight that she does have some basis for believing that cycling is more dangerous than driving (albeit that much of the hazard is caused by motorists!). However, that is ‘distance corrected’ so your probability of dying in any particular mode of transport in a given year is the multiple of that “factor” and the distance you travel in that mode of transport. I don’t ride as far as you but am more likely to die in a car than on my bike.

When someone suggested I was possibly being irresponsible for riding on the road with my daughter in a rear seat (yes believe it or not!) then I pointed out she was much more likely to die in the car but nobody notices that risk.

You’re probably more likely to be around to take your grandkids out on their bikes than he is!

kill him

but nobody notices that risk.

Exactly, the normalized risks just get ignored. Cycling isn’t ‘normal’ so it’s ‘obvious’ that it’s more dangerous than all the other ways people actually do get hurt or killed.

Yep poly is right, if you consider how far you drive a car per year versus how far you cycle then chances are, despite the increased risk per km/mile on a bike, you are more likely to die in a car.

And as thomthumb points out, the accident data doesn’t reflect overall lifestyle benefits either. No point in being “safe” on the route to work every day if it means you get unfit and fat.

Retorts?

“Button it, fatty” is the usual STW response to the gibberings of imbecile motorists, isn’t it?

Stay on the bike – the more of us there are out there the better. 🙂

So I was rather surprised that a colleague in all seriousness called me irresponsible. Apparently, I’m not considering my daughters should I be killed in an RTA

Well done for actually hearing what they said.

When a motorist starts talking all I usually hear is the gibberings of a chimp, and then expect them to start flinging their poo at me.

That, or I just get the sound of Charlie Brown’s teacher.

If you cycle in the UK people are always going to think you mad – bit like walking anywhere in the States; something only nutters do. Why bother with a retort at all; it’d just wind you up, and the person making it would feel justified in their opinion. During our last snow I went out for a spin; no traffic out, just a bit of fun. Some pedestrian shouted at me: “It’s nutters like you who casue accidents!” Naturally I responded but the fact of responding made the incident stick in my mind, where I bet they’ve forgotten about it. So who next time it snows will be the wary one?

Don’t let them wear you down, and don’t rise to the bait. It’s not worth the effort.

Do you wear a helmet or not?

I didn’t realise walking was so dangerous but then again it amazes me how many people I see walking on the road, but even worse is some of them walk on the wrong side of the road with their back to the traffic.

Wrap yourself in cotton wool 🙄

There’s a book about this kind of thing; the dangers of not doing dangerous activities sometimes and why it’s important to do them. I think its called “how to live dangerously” cant remember the specifics but do remember I enjoyed reading it. Will look up the title/author when I get back if you like?

Graham’s link highlights the point I was going to make. Cyclist death counts are skewed by the amount of children who get killed on bikes. Now you’re a grown up you’ll be fine.

I’m with the second poster though, I’d have a quick retort for that chap.

It’s irresponsible to ignore the mind-bogglingly obvious issue of the state of our roads. Too many cars, too many deaths, too much pollution, not enough oil.

The most irresponsible thing you can do is pretend there are no problems and criticise people who through their own little tiny bit, are making things better for everyone. Everyone wins when you ride a bike, EVERYONE. If that’s irresponsible then yes, I’m as reckless as a bull in a slaughterhouse.

And then throw some poo at him.

I live in EK and work north City Centre. I don’t commute by bike, largely as I have a company car and a space in the office car park, which I would lose if I didn’t use it….. For me I prefer to drive home, then go for a ride on the back roads round Auldhouse, Strathaven airfield, Whitelee, Eaglesham etc, which are pretty traffic free. Still you do get some nutters, often white van running late, or tractor, who ‘own the road’.
Irresponsible ? not at all, but my wife would worry more if I was doing my commute by bike, as she drives EK to south side daily and sees riders getting cut up all the time, so it’s understandable for someone to take that view.

Never counter an irrational point of view with reason – leave the facts and statistics at ho0me.

Ride your bike. Enjoy it. Teach your kids a love of being outside and respect for other people.

And leave a turd on the desk of your colleague.

“Won’t someone please think of the children”

🙂

My kids are grown up and have (mostly) left home, but if anything happens to me my wife get just under a quarter of a millon and a half of my pension (but don’t tell her that) 😉

Thanks again to you all.

Yes, I wear a well-secured helmet 🙂

Poly; yep, t’was a lady, bang on there.

The thing is, I can’t let this stand in my way. The more freaks like us there are out there the more other motorists will see us.

Depending on the amount of urban commuting your taking in alot of exhaust fumes as you breath deeply.

Might as well just start smoking. What ‘fun’ is it to commute that much distance?

I’d rather do my cycling at the weekend on early morning roads IMO.

I thought there was evidence that fumes affect people inside cars more than those outside? Particularly considering the height of most cyclists (sorry all the ‘bent users out there!), and the height of exhaust pipes/vehicle air intakes

Ram a fist full of kitkats down their pie hole. That’ll shut’em up.

I am not saying you are irresponsible.

But I think it’s irresponsible of me, with two nippers, to commute into London… just to get my triathlon bike split down.

It’s not irresponsible at all, anyone who thinks it is is a bit twisted in their logic. Ultimately WGAF what other people think? I’d say they were irresponsible for promoting laziness (presumably) car use to their sprogs.

Quite frankly find the sort of person who feels they have the right to comment on someone elses choice of transport to be lacking a brain anyway.

You are mad if you cycle on the road though.

I quit commuting in Manchester after a couple of near misses. Its my right to be on the road and the law has clear laws on motor vehicles and cyclists.

When you are in a box or badly injured who is going to wave a finger at the motorist who killed you?

Stick to off road or ENJOYING your riding in quite times. 40miles in commuting hours smacks me as birching yourself. **** it, its not worth it.

It’s all about ‘acceptable risk’ innit.

You ride to work, you might get hit by a car. You go on holiday, you might plummet out of the sky screaming. You make coffee in a morning, you might scald yourself.

As (allegedly) intelligent human beings, we assess those risks and work out whether taking the risk is worth the reward. Me, I’d be miserable without my morning coffee. I suspect the OP’s busybody is the same; is she irresponsible in handling boiling liquids whilst half asleep? Has she ever been abroad?

Do the wide and varied benefits of riding to work outweigh the risks? Or do we stay in the home all day, in fear of going out in case something Bad happens. But, wait, turning on the TV could electrocute us. Best stay in bed; but, wait, bed sores, DVT, maybe the roof could collapse?

We take risks, daily, in everything we do. Most are so trivial that we don’t even notice. It’s called living. She should try it.

Depending on the amount of urban commuting your taking in alot of exhaust fumes as you breath deeply.
Might as well just start smoking. What ‘fun’ is it to commute that much distance?
I’d rather do my cycling at the weekend on early morning roads IMO

Thats about as mindless as the ‘irresponsible’ comment.

I also do a 40 mile round trip commute and absolutely love it, so its lots of ‘fun’. I can’t wait for my 20 mile ride home tonight, I certainly wouldn’t feel like that if I was driving.

You can ride at weekends and during the week you know. If you don’t ride your bike much then you probably have no idea thats its possible to ride 200+ mile weeks and still really enjoy it.

I quit commuting in Manchester after a couple of near misses

Would you do the same if you had near misses driving or is it just an excuse to give up.

I wouldn’t fancy riding that road at peak times though, busy, fast, lots of blind bends. None of that your fault though and people should drive properly.

Stick to off road or ENJOYING your riding in quite times. 40miles in commuting hours smacks me as birching yourself. **** it, its not worth it.

Yeh thats the right things to do, get bikes off the road so they don’t inconvenience drivers. 🙄