In the eternal hunt for a good hardcore hardtail I thought I’d try a second hand Chameleon as everyone seems to rave about them (also having tried a 456, love/hate, p7). Got one from the classifieds and built it up – it looks a treat and well made but I can’t get on with it on the trails.

The bottom bracket feels very high (with 140mm pikes and a 2.1 high roller on the back, 2.3 on the front), like I’m perched up on it rather than in it. The short reach surprised me, but then I guess it wasn’t built around a short stem.

I like the stiffness and the fact that the XL fits me – but its going back on the classifieds soon. Are the new Chams (EBB) different?

They’re a bike for mucking about/having fun on, hence they’re short and high. The new ones a probably the same. 100mm forks would better.

I had a new model in large and felt the BB was way too high with 140mm Vanillas. Now got an older version in medium and it’s so different. It’s a keeper for me. So if you think the new one is likely to be different then I doubt it, in fact based on what I learnt it’ll be worse for that perched on feeling.

davidtaylforth – Maybe I’m strange but I haven’t had any fun as yet…will try dropping the forks to see if it makes it better

I ran my old one with 100mm forks. I bloody loved it! It was like an oversized BMX. Not a bike to spend all day on, but unbeatable for hooning around for a couple of hours 🙂

I must say I loved mine. Thought it was an evil toy. Too stiff though.

The fact you bought an XL sized one probably means you dont intend on mucking about on it. I imagine you were expecting it to be something its not perhaps?

Binners has it. It’s a BMX for grownups. It’s the most hooney bike I’ve ever owned. I swear I’ve had some rides on it where the front wheel never touched the ground and the rear only spent fifty percent of the time on terra firma.

I’ve got an XL Chameleon which I’ve had for circa 8 years or so. It’s a bit of a Trigger’s broom and in its current incarnation, I’m running it with 160mm Fox 36 Van Rs and a pretty short 80mm stem. Previously I had RockShox Psylo’s (120mm IIRC) on it and a longer 120mm stem.

The ride has changed dramatically, it’s more difficult to climb on, that’s for sure, but it doesn’t preclude me from doing long day rides on it. It’s certainly become more point and shoot when going down a trail.

I’ve not got much experience on frames other than an Orange P7 which is even older, but I really enjoy riding it, more so than the Orange, that’s for sure.

I’m with the others, if you aren’t enjoying it you aren’t riding it in the right way.

I run my (08, L) singlespeed a lot of time or 1×9 when the ground is dryish, 120mm forks, makes you get out of the saddle and give it some all the time.

It really relishes being chucked at the vanishing point and is no XC cruiser, if I do go out for a potter it usually doesn’t last long until I’m hacking down some trail.

On the BB thing, the EBB on the new model gives you a hugely adjustable BB height, you should be able to find something that suits.

how much are you looking for it? i’ve got a large which is a smidgen too small for me for xc and always fancied an xl to see how i’d get on

I’ve just sold my XL, loved it to bits, but I prefer riding my Soul all day. Great fun, quite unforgiving but gets better the faster you push it.

I rant mine with 130mm Revs, Pre EBB frameset. I’m 6’1″ and found the size/fit perfect for cross country, but not as playful as a Large would have been. Built-up geometry was similar to my Large Soul and Large Blur…

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I take exception to a couple of points though.

I’m not riding the right way? Flat out drifty corners on local mini DH tracks have become scary and jumps and drops that were fine even on the p7 are pretty sketchy on the cham.

I got the wrong size? I’m 6ft5, what size am I supposed to get, especially considering the shortness of the tt?

Think I just don’t get on with it, glad lots of you do though as it hopefully means I won’t have too much bother selling it.

I’ve had two ebb models, sold the first as it just beat me up as an xc bike and never did feel particularly special. As soon as it was gone I regretted selling it as nothing else quite seemed as much of a hoot to ride. The first had 120mm forks, 90mm stem and high rise bars, mainly because that’s what I had kicking about, the new one has 160’s 50mm stem straight onto the headset and low rise 760mm bars. Totally different bike. Much more confidence inspiring and happy to ride down silly steep stuff where before I felt perched like you do. It’s ridiculous fun for a few hours in the woods. Perservering with set up may find you that sweet spot.

I think the ebb version has a slacker head angle which I’m used to on my other bikes. Sounds like the more ‘modern’ angles on the ebb version might suit me better. That or a Ragley Bagger.

Im 5′ 11″ on one of the last pre ebb chams in white, its a medium with a 70mm stem, 140mm revs… never ridden a bike i felt more sat in and part of, felt telepathic from the first ride… a definate keeper…climbs like a goat and decends like its on steroids. I cant imagine a better ride (for me) were you sized ok for the XL ?

I have a small frame with 130mm forsks, a 50mm stem with 0 rise and mid rise monkey bars. No problems whatsoever, awesome bike!

i was right on the line between a large and medium, to me the large felt quite a different bike. for your size i would have gone with a large and a long post..with an offset post if you need it.

They don’t make posts that long, I’ve tried.

dtf – Thanks for the advice of trying 100mm forks – wound down the Pikes and it makes more sense.

I had one a number of years ago, bought on the premise that it was an all-rounder and something I could use for a few years over a variety of riding
it was amazing for smooth, pumpy, flowy trails but just too stiff and harsh in the back end for anything else – like XC, any rough DH and drops
I still miss it though

Those with EBB chameleons, where are you running yours at and do you notice much of a difference running it higher or lower? I’ve always run mine in the highest position but may experiment with the lowest position.