As per title. Seems a simple option really but there’s a twist.

For starters, I’m coming from a 2011 Boardman HT Pro. Love it but find it too fidgety on downhills and have been over the bars too often. Probably partly because I sized down to have something chuckable.

I’ll keep it for XC but having been to OnePlanetAdventure a few times now, I need something slacker, longer and that I’ll also feel more comfortable arseing about on. Considered upgrading the Boardman but things have moved on too much for it to be a cost-effective exercise.

The twist is that – for reasons I won’t go in to on a public forum – I need to spend at least £2000 to make this purchase good value.

That brings me firmly in to specced-up AM HT vs mid-entry FS.

I’m test-riding the Aeris 145 and Zero AM this weekend. All-told I’m more of an HT fan but need to consider an FS at that price. I love technical riding and am a bit of a purist, hence the HT preference.

I’d have to spec the Zero with everything shiny to breach the 2k mark. Other HT options are the BFe, Slackline or highly-specced Morf. Which brings up the steel/alu discussion. In my head, at that price a steel frame is better value than an alu frame.

FS-wise, the Airdrop Edit is the only other ride on my radar. As I live in Hathersage it helps that they’re just up the road from me. I’m not interested in looking at any foreign direct companies so that rules out Canyon and YT straight away…

TLDR; I’m after a new AM bike that is the holy grail – truly AM. I prefer HT. But is it worth up-speccing an HT just to hit a certain price point, when a competent FS can be had for the same price?

Personally…. It your keeping the boardman ht you already have, I’d get the airdrop.

Yeah, that’s crossed my mind too. Wife wants the Boardman but in reality will never ride it, so it’ll still be available if I want to ride it myself…

am a bit of a purist,

What does this even mean? You are a grown man messing round on bikes in the woods.

Demo some bikes, buy the funnest one in the best colour.

I mean that I’d rather have the challenge of a hardtail than coast over things easily on an FS, given the choice.

Don’t want to open a can of worm here as I appreciate that everyone has different opinions. Just thought it was relevant to mention that I’ve always previously leant towards HT.

New P7 here and love it. Does everything, in a fun way.

I’ve spent years stubbornly hanging on to my hardtail, taking pleasure from keeping up with mates on their FS. Then took the plunge last year with an aeris and absolutely love it, kicking myself I didn’t do it years ago. That said I’ve enjoyed the hardtail again over the winter.

Think you hit on something there. I’m known for being occasionally stubborn 😀

Bloody ‘ell P7 RS is £2800!

Yup. That’s some money for an Orange spec. Would be tempted as I’ve wanted an Orange since I was 14 and racing XC.

As much as I’d still like one now, I can’t bring myself to pay the Orange premium.

I do love a good hardtail. But that’s mega money, especially for something that is pretty niche.

As there a way in your mysterious financial wranglings that you could get two bikes? How much over £2k are you prepared to go?

Bloody ‘ell P7 RS is £2800!

Proper piss take that. The frame is £525 so that leaves £2275 to build it up. You could buy an entire Jeffsy 27 with a decent spec, throw the frame in the bin and still have change.

I’ve spent years stubbornly hanging on to my hardtail, taking pleasure from keeping up with mates on their FS. Then took the plunge last year with an aeris and absolutely love it, kicking myself I didn’t do it years ago.

I went the other way; I had a Banshee Rune which was my main bike and a little Slackline 853 for mucking around on but I found myself riding the Slackline more and more even though it was too small so I sold that and bought a steel Switchback which I really enjoyed riding so much that the Banshee never really got a look in. I ended up selling both for a Ti Switchback and haven’t looked back 18 months in.

The Banshee was amazing on the right trails but for what I mostly ride, the hardtail is just way more fun.

Dont make the mistake of thinking a well appointed agro HT is the same as a lower spec FS. They’re different beasts.

Irrespective of whether you have an ‘aggressive’ hardtail or not, they still top out at speed on chunder. You get to a point where irrespective at how good your legs are, the trail input into the back wheel starts to interfere with the stability of the front.

Think carefully about what you want it for.

Think carefully about what you want it for

Thanks SO, I reckon that’s what I’m struggling with. An HT suits my needs day-to-day. I feel that I should think otherwise for OPA and BPW, for example.

The only descent around here that I feel I would need an FS for is The Beast. And it’d be a bigger achievement to nail on an HT IMO.

But on those Welsh days…would I regret buying a top-spec HT when for the same money I could have a pretty-well-specced FS? One that would also suit me around the Peak District?

Thinking out loud here. I think you nailed it and that I convinced myself in the first sentence of this reply.

HT all the way as it’s fun and what I usually enjoy locally. If I really want some travel at a trail centre, I can always hire one…

Will still be interested to see the difference between the Aeris and Zero this weekend though, but Swinley isn’t exactly Wales nor the Peak District.

I mostly ride hardtails, a Ragley Ti and a Sonder Transmitter and a winterised Mmmbop. On the other side of the Peak from you. Yes, you do eventually get to a point where you can’t see straight, but ‘fun’ or whatever you want to call it, isn’t just about how fast you can go and still see clearly.

I’m not sure there’s any right answer, actually I’m sure there isn’t one. I find 650B+ on a hardtail a good sort of halfway house between hardtail and full suspension and I’m very tempted by the new Sonder Transmitter Carbon – might be worth getting a demo on one of those given that Alpkit is only a couple of junctions down the M1.

Aargh. I’m a huge Alpkit fan and somehow missed that model.

Yet. More. Research. Needed.

Will it ever end?!

If 130mm fork is enough I’d maybe go Zero TR with a slackset and bling build, would make hell of a bike, light, chuckable, versatile.

I’ll confess that 90% of my riding has been on a fairly lairy trail hardtail for the last 3 years.

Whether or not it’s appropriate to my needs is wholly irrelevant IMO, it’s the bike I get the most from for my local southwest riding. Exmoor, Dartmoor, Mendips, Quantocks, Cwm Carn, Bristol, Afan are all more rewarding to ride on a hardtail.

I have an outrageously competent Turner Sultan for big days in big mountains, where we’re busy chasing all the lairy riding, like the lakes, Snowdon, Spain, etc… But mostly it makes things less rewarding so I hop on the hardtail more often than not.

I’m faced with a similar, but different decision to you really. The sultan is tired, it needs new rockers and pivots and really I’d like to replace it with something that has more modern geometry, but can I justify it for what is becoming an occasional use bike? Theres commonality of logic with your position I think.

I’d be looking at a really nice hardtail. Kingdom Vendetta, Production Privee, Stanton etc. Steel or ti. I love hardtails though, to me they just look right and I enjoy the extra challenge and find them more versatile. Each to their own, but you could get a really sweet hardtail for £2k

Get both, second hand.

Argon GLF, £2250 150mm dropper, and a set of 36’s….throw wheels saddle stem bars and a group set at it and the world is your lobster……

A nice hardtail is a lovely thing. I love HTs. I’m ‘faster’* on a FS though, and I’m quite enjoying the extra comfort as well 😳 I’m old…

* relative term, for the odd DH race I participate in.

That Sonder will work very well as a standard 27.5 bike – the smaller tyres will drop it lower for better shredability without squirming or boinging on berms. And space to go plus if you want. Looks good!

I don’t feel full-sus and hardtails are really comparable, they’re just different feeling animals. I have one of each and they’re built up with near identical components and have similar geometry – wheelbase is within a cm, sagged BB heights within mm, hardtail has slightly longer reach but full-sus slacker head angle, etc.

They’re both about as aggro as shorter travel bikes can be but the 140mm of DBair travel on the back of the Spitfire makes it behave so differently to the rigid rear of the Zero AM. If push came to shove I’d just keep the Spitfire but it is a really really good full-sus.

Some great options that I hadn’t considered, thanks all.

Need to ride a steely back to back with an alu, I think. Mind has just been blown a bit by the GLF, that’s a beaut. Probably a bit over budget though thanks to Brexit/Trump/Political Incompetence/Trident/Immigrants/Broccoli shortages/Wholesale price increase of narcotics/Insert Other Reason Here.

Eyestwice: There’s a 10% discount code on the front of Alpkit’s bike show brochure if it’s of interest. Just use “AKSHOW10”

Thanks Upshift, will check it out 🙂

I have a switchback ti and it’s incredible. Mine has Basic components on a great frame so I would say get the best frame you can and don’t worry about components.

I also have a mojo hd3.

For 99% of uk riding the switchback is equally as fast or faster as the mojo and more involving/ fun to ride.

However, it is nice to jump on the mojo and steamroller everything and to also have a bike that can take on anything when asked.

For 1 bike, I’d have the fs. But I’d miss an aggro hardtail a lot.

For 99% of uk riding the switchback is equally as fast or faster as the mojo and more involving/ fun to ride.

You’re not riding the mojo right.

You’ve got a hard tail (or acess to one once given to the wife), so use that money for something different and get a full suss. At that budget I’d look at the bird aeris, some great value builds and exceptional customer service. I ride bikes n the same areas as you on both a hard tail and a big bouncy enduro bike. Both are different and lots of fun in there on way, so why not give yourself another option?

That Nicolai Argon is a beauty indeed..

That Nicolai Argon is a beauty indeed

Erm, eye of the beholder and all that…

looks like someone’s half-snapped the head tube off it with a particularly heavy flat-landing

I’ve had a HT for years, but it’s an old Kona and hasn’t been used for MTB’ing for years (use it as a pub bike). Having ridden FS’ers for the last 13 years, I had a spare Enduro when I bought my Capra. I shifted most of the bits onto a s/h Shan frame yesterday and went for it’s inaugural ride last night. I really enjoyed it – it was as fast as the Capra for 90% of the ride and still good fun on the other (rocky) bits. I’ll use the Shan for the rest of the winter unless I go to BPW etc and then mix/match during summer dependent on the ride location. Doesn’t really help you I know, but how many bits would transfer off the Boardman onto something more aggressive and buy a new FS?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/S8UA8E]2017-02-17_08-49-10[/url] by davetheblade, on Flickr

chiefgrooveguru – Member
That Sonder will work very well as a standard 27.5 bike – the smaller tyres will drop it lower for better shredability without squirming or boinging on berms. And space to go plus if you want. Looks good!

How do you find the Transmitter works in the Peak District and similar rocky areas set up like that? Much pedal strike?

Buy a FS, ride it harder, puncture the rear tyre less. Then take a long hard look at yourself with the purist thing. 😛

Edit – I really think if your budget will cover a decent full sus you’ll be looking at diminishing returns with spending the same amount on an HT. You could always spend a lot less on an HT which will do the job and be fun, but if you want something to descend well, a FS will be less of a compromise.

Is it just something for Llandegla you are looking for, as I always took an XC HT there as it is relatively manicured.

If you are going further afield I’d always prefer a FS; the steepening of the head angle on “aggro” hardtails always annoys me and gives me the potential of that over the bars feeling on steep stuff.

I’m not sure there’s any right answer, actually I’m sure there isn’t one. I find 650B+ on a hardtail a good sort of halfway house between hardtail and full suspension…

I’d go with this. And if you have a second set of 29er wheels with mud tyres you’re winning x 2.

The real answer is both- I have a Trek Stache and a Transition Patrol Carbon. They ying and yang very well. Before that I had a Transition Trans Am and a Commencal Meta V4 AM.

Having a hardtail to ride when you feel it’s appropriate (for me, that’s mostly on local White Peak trails in the winter) means you aren’t trashing a more expensive full suspension bike and keeps your skills sharp.

Having a full suspension bike to ride in the Dark Peak, on big mountains, on adventures etc. means you aren’t phased by anything you come across, you can ride new technical trails blind with a safety net and it’s faster and, for me at least, generally more enjoyable because the bike doesn’t hold me back.

You already have a hardtail so I’d get a full suspension bike. If you’ve got a budget of, say £2800, I’d get a Bird Zero TR and a Bird Aeris 145 in the basic specs.

You’re not riding the mojo right.

Yeah I am.