Last October I had a [i]very[/i] minor coming together with a Ford Ranger pick up truck at a roundabout. Long story cut short, we were 3 abreast going around a roundabout, when the Artic lorry to my right began to move across on me, and I got squeezed between the pickup and the lorry. It all happened at about 15/20mph and resulted in this damage to the guys pickup truck.
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We exchanged details, I didn't think much of it, filled out insurance forms etc etc.
A few weeks later, I get a call from my insurance company saying that the chap is claiming for whiplash and a hip injury. I nearly fell over laughing at first, as we had been travelling in the same direction, at 15-20mph, and had literally 'rubbed' each other. There was no deceleration and neither vehicle was physically moved by the accident, especially his 2.5 tonne pickup. (I was driving a Golf!)
I made it very clear to the insurance company that this was a fraudulent claim in my eyes, and I sent them the relevant photos of the damage. They told me that they agreed and would fight this and prosecute for fraud.
I heard nothing for a few months, until I heard from the insurance company yesterday. They are now asking me if I will admit liability, so that they can settle the claim. They have already offered a 50:50 settlement, which was rejected, and they now want to offer 75:25 in his favour.
I asked them what would happen if I refused to admit liability, and they said they would take their own decision on it anyway, I then questioned their reasons for asking me in the first place.
I'm just absolutely furious to my core that people do this sort of thing, and get away with it, just because insurance companies can't be bothered to fight fraudulent claims because of costs. I think it's disgusting.
Premiums go up and up, insurance companies don't care and the 'no win no fee' brigade just get away with it. I'm told that there's a cut off point where insurance companies just pay up and don't ask questions for personal injury, and that amount is £2000...I was not surprised to find out that the money grabbing con man had claimed for just that...£2000.
It's a company car, and our fleet managers stance is just to sign the forms and forget about it.
I've only just calmed down about it to a reasonable level.
Insurance companies stopped seriously disputing whiplash claims years back, as the legal fees were costing more than just paying out.
The no win, no fee parasites were straight onto this, and will now just routinely bang in a whiplash claim for every incident! There is evidence that people working in insurance companies are passing on information of people who've had accidents to ambulance-chasers, who then contact the driver and ask them if they want to start legal proceedings. Saying its basically free money. Which they take a chunk of, obviously
Wasn't the figure out last year that £90 of every motor insurance premium goes to covering whiplash claims?
TBH most ppl thought I was mad for not claiming whiplash on my crash, the cars came to together on a mini island @ 10mph (going the same direction), if anything it was like being in a bumper car. The insurance companies basically were saying why aren't you claiming? Especially as I was found to be at no fault.
Again I agree, I find it disgusting, & won't lower myself to that level arse mongering.
I did have a number of calls and texts following the accident from people offering to handle my personal injury claim, I told them I was fine it was fraud and to p*** off, and not call me again. I guess I'm just more moral than most.
I just think something needs to be done, and someone needs to be made an example of. They should pursue 1 in 10 or something at least, and make people think twice about it.
I've only just calmed down about it to a reasonable level.
I feel your pain
3-4 years ago, queuing at a red light, the car in front of me reverses to let someone turn right - he reversed in me at 0.000005 mph.
Like you, thought nowt of it - no damage to either car etc... he claimed against me and ended up getting paid £3k... as above - my insurers just CBA to contest 👿
france 3 %of crashes involve a whiplash claim
UK 75 %
£90 figure is also true
What would happen if you contacted the police and made a complaint about suspected fraud?
I think I know the answer - SFA as the police would just tell you they weren't interested.
If you hit your old TV with a hammer to get a new one through your insurance policy then that is fraud pure and simple. If the insurance company found out they would pursue you for it and probably try and prosecute. Yet these whiplash claims which essentially amount to fraud as well go uncontested.
richmtb - MemberWhat would happen if you contacted the police and made a complaint about suspected fraud?
I think I know the answer - SFA as the police would just tell you they weren't interested.
If you hit your old TV with a hammer to get a new one through your insurance policy then that is fraud pure and simple. If the insurance company found out they would pursue you for it and probably try and prosecute. Yet these whiplash claims which essentially amount to fraud as well go uncontested.
Yes, wrongly claiming loss or damage or theft through your household policy would likely end in prosecution, and rightly so. I guess whiplash is so hard to contest. What happened to people having to prove they had an injury, as opposed to insurance companies having to prove they don't??
I think the problem is in the proving. How do you prove someone hasn't got whiplash? Obviously, the counter to that is, how does someone with whiplash prove that they've got it? AFAIK you can't do either, but from my experience (knocked off my bike) for that kind of injury the medical expert doesn't have to prove that you had a soft tissue injury, just say that the injury is 'reasonable' and consistent with the description of the collision.
Which is why the "I reversed into an empty car, found the owner, told him, and now he's claiming for whiplash" stories are so odd. Clearly, any personal injury isn't consistent with the account of the collision, nor reasonably expected, so why don't the insurance companies refuse to pay out for the ones that, on the face of it, seem obviously bogus?
I share your annoyance. The Government ought to do something about these ambulance-chasing scum. If it was up to me I would counter-sue the "victim" for some equally spurious claim such as shock or depression but sadly in the end it's the insurance company's decision.
That said, for damage as small as that pictured I'd have told the bloke to get an estimate and I'd have paid him out of my pocket to avoid making a claim; a friend who works for a motor insurer told us never to make small claims because you will become known as an "accident magnet" and your premiums will go up.
I got knocked off my bike last august and went through my solicitor to make sure I was covered for my recovery (some quite bad injuries).
He said that as of March this year the government are changing the way these kind of claims go through. I can't remember the details but it amounted to any legals fees now have to be taken from the claimants re imbursements. It was designed as a disincentive to people making up whiplash claims and getting a few grand as they would now have a chunk of it taken away.
The no win, no fee parasites were straight onto this, and will now just routinely bang in a whiplash claim for every incident! There is evidence that people working in insurance companies are passing on information of people who've had accidents to ambulance-chasers, who then contact the driver and ask them if they want to start legal proceedings. Saying its basically free money. Which they take a chunk of, obviously
I'm in the process of creating merry-hell with my insurance company due to large numbers of daily calls to my mobile. They denied it so I then escalated the complaint by asking them loads of questions. I'm not happy with their further reply needless to say.
Interestingly though, the nuisance callers all had the same accent and this matches the area where my insurance company are based. Obvious conclusion is inside job.
My next move is to contact the Information Commissioner's Office.
Even if the insurers CBA to contest every one of these dubious claims, they should go after a small proportion of them with a vengeance - fighting the claim and investigating with a view towards getting the police and courts (and solicitor regulatory bodies) involved.
Bit like the random 'tax audit' approach, might act as a bit of a disincentive.
Yup. Even down to suing the claimant, and investigating the doctor that signed the note saying he's got whiplash.
My Hungarian neighbour is a self-styled IFA of the sort who gives financial services a bad name. He and his mates are constantly in and out of various scams, most of which involve selling each other leads and taking commissions. At the moment he is making a hell of a lot of money out of PPI mis-selling claims, which is deeply ironic because a few years ago he was the one mis-selling all the PPI.
Who do we blame for liberalising financial and legal services in this disastrous way? Thatcher?
@cbmotorsport - if you were not at fault I would not sign something admitting you were - full stop. If your insurer wishes to settle that is up to them. The insurance industry has created this problem for themselves by not disputing claims.
Same kinda thing happen to my wife.
When I queried it with the Ins Co. their response was "she admitted liability".
Hmm. No problem with you paying out for their van repairs, the hire of another van was (as seems normal now) a load of cash but a £10k whiplash claim?
My wife's car wasn't even scratched by the accident, she ran into the back of the van in a queue.
jambalaya - Member@cbmotorsport - if you were not at fault I would not sign something admitting you were - full stop. If your insurer wishes to settle that is up to them. The insurance industry has created this problem for themselves by not disputing claims.
Agreed, but the papers to sign are for and on behalf of the company I work for, not me as an individual, so if I don't sign it as a Director, the MD or fleet manager will, so makes no odds.
They told me that they agreed and would fight this and prosecute for fraud.
Have you asked them to detail what they have done on this point? They seem to have simply folded.
**** em and put in a counter-claim. (probably not a real option at this stage especially as it's on your employer's insurance...)
I know this is complicated by the fact it is a company car but the value of claim against you usually affects your future premium, you should therefore get a say in contesting it.
Yes - re PPI sale people making money from reviewing the sales, I worked as a Librarian for a personal pension miss-selling review unit many years ago. Most of the senior staff were ex-sales people who had made the shonky sales in the first place, but I think they had their irony gene removed at birth as they didn't seem to find it odd.
The company had chosen to redeploy them rather then pay redundancy, as they weren't allowed to sell those products any more.
It was like sending the wolves to discipline each other for eating those lambs.
claims for whiplash injuries is how you learn that most people given they will not get caught will commit fraud.
What we need then is a few well-publicised prosecutions to make people think twice. I wonder how many will be taking points for their spouses now after the Huhne case?
"so if I don't sign it as a Director, the MD or fleet manager will, so makes no odds"
let them sign it then, then its their choice as the policy holder, you've still admitted nothing.
The whole thing is deeply depressing, the reselling of details, the litany of jumped up para legal cold-calls, the endless duplicate paperwork, the deceit, the incompetence, the utter waste of time. Anyone that just wants to do the decent thing stands out like a sore-thumbed freak.
make a youtube stills video of he pics of the damage, his registration, name and what he did and title it "His Name commits insurance fraud"
Might get you in trouble but might also make you feel 1% better.
O/P you do know that because youve had a colllision and and a claim against your insurance, you need to tell your insurance company for your private vehicles youve had a claim against you, and surprise surprise they will increase your premium.
The thing I find most surprised, if we take the figures quoted about as being reasonably accurate, is that the majority of the UK are lying fraudsters.
3% incidence in France v 75% in the UK. That means that MOST people you know who have had an accident have been complicit in insurance fraud? I can believe it, but i don't know what I find more depressing, the culture perpetuated by ambulance chasing failed lawyers and paralegals, or the fact that for all people hate them and the culture they breed, they are willing to lie anyway and take the cash 🙁
My wife clipped a double decker bus at walking speed, pulled round the stationary bus as she left a car park (i know, but we just don't talk about it, my VW Caravelle was 2 weeks old at the time). No real damage to the bus but the driver is trying to sue for whiplash.......
Our insurance company has decided to pursue it to court. So hopefully he'll not get away with it (assuming he is lying of course 😉 )
So maybe the insurance companies are getting tougher.
If you've got a little bit of time to spare then you might enjoy this read: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?695166-Incident-involving-a-pedestrian sometimes it does work out for the good guy
The insurers I deal with at work for employer liability openly admitted that they sell information on to ambulance chasers following accident claims.
I questioned how this could possibly make sense and was told that as the sales department it increased their sales, if overall it caused the company to lose money then out was the underwriters who would be charged to become more efficient, whilst the sales teams would be given bonuses for increasing sales.
Absolute bonkers.
