I’ve been suffering bad cramp in my legs on rides for ages (3 cramp free rides this year so far). I’d been trying deep muscle massage, but after 5 sessions with no significant change the masseuse said I should see my GP. He took some blood to check electrolytes etc, and I got a letter today saying I these was nothing unusual apart from “a slightly raised creatine kinase level” which is characteristic of muscle damage and I have to avoid “hard exertion” for 10 days before another test 🙁

Anyone know anything about this apart from ad hoc web searching ?

Don’t know the answer but by strange co-incidence mine is on the low end at the moment so whatever you’ve got, I’ve got the opposite…

Rachel

No.

mine is on the low end at the moment

eeek! Something I read says the best diagnosis is “alcoholic” 🙁

Lucky I re-read the post and realised creatine kinase and creatinine are no the same thing then!!! oops.

raised CK you say?? Youve clearly had a heart attack. You’d better call one of those nice paramedics types to whizz you off to a+e.

ETA *CK does not necessarily come from your heart!!****

I re-read the post and realised creatine kinase and creatinine are no the same thing then!!! oops.

Phew! No need to go to AA then 🙂

Normally I would agree but having been to a launch party thing for a website I built last night, I’m not so sure just at the moment…

Free drinks eh? Nightmare.

Rachel

From muscle damage/breakdown. Statins can also raise CK

Statins can also raise CK

no way you’d catch me taking them!

take vinegar..

sometimes suffer cramps i take that. cramps go away..

science fact right there

Quinine is supposedly good for cramps; tonic water typically, but apparently quinine is now added to bitter lemon as well.

take vinegar..

how does it work ?

so hydration, electrolytes, vinegar and quinine ? That’ll taste loverly 🙁

briefly looking: Quinine study

that was for nocturnal leg cramps, but worth a go I would have thought

that was for nocturnal leg cramps

which I never get unless riding in the dark…

Muscle cramps are painful and common in elderly patients

elderly ?? Oh thanks 🙁

quinine side effects:
* Rash
* Nausea
* Low blood glucose level (hypoglycaemia)
* Severe swelling of lips, face or tongue (angioedema)
* Sensation of ringing, or other noise in the ears (tinnitus)
* Flushing
* Kidney failure
* Headache
* Abdominal pain
* Confusion
* Blood disorders
* Visual disturbances
* Abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias)

Cramp on your rides and a raised CK….

You’re out for a longish time on your rides, how much other riding do you do?

You’re out for a longish time on your rides, how much other riding do you do?

I’m down to only one easy ride a week now to give me time to recover 🙁 The cramp usually starts after a couple of hours when I press hard on the pedals to get over an obstacle, and I feel a tearing sensation in my calves or thighs, quite randomly as far as I can tell. If I ease off it sometimes fades.

Because…. I’m more or less convinced by the cramp theories from here; http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/muscle-cramp-part-iii.html so based on that, I would suggest (with a nod to your argumentative persona…) That it’s an indication of being under-trained.

ie, I think you’re going out for big rides without doing any preparation or ‘training’ and cramping up as a result.

My prescription would be to ride your bike a bit more over shorter distances as well as your bog trotter rides.

All supposition and guess work, I fully admit.

I think you’re going out for big rides without doing any preparation or ‘training’ and cramping up as a result.

I haven’t done a big ride (over 20 miles) in 6 months 🙁 I just lead easy beginner rides.

Hmmm. Your last ride was over 5 hours though? More ‘training’ would be my recommendation, although that makes it sound dull and arduous.

. Your last ride was over 5 hours though?

the GPS said just over 2 hours rolling time and 12 miles covered 🙂

More ‘training’ would be my recommendation

thanks, but I could never do that 🙂

I meant the last bogtrotting whinlatter thing?

Anyway, you get the idea; you’re not a young man anymore, and need to prepare yourself for this exercise malarkey…

(Pot/kettle dark coloured nomenclature occurence noted)

I meant the last bogtrotting whinlatter thing?

yes, that’s the one 🙂

OK, you pedantic monkey…. 😀

just do a bit more training/riding about and I think you will find that your cramps don’t occur.

just do a bit more training/riding about and I think you will find that your cramps don’t occur.

that would be too boring 🙁 The point is, I was doing far more riding when the cramp started and I tapered off as it got worse. By your theory it would never have started.

My theory, well not mine really but theory I agree with, is that cramp is related largely to neuro-muscular fatigue; it’s all about nerves firing off after or during harder exercise than they are accustomed to. I’ve only ever had cramp when I was racing, trying harder than I would try in training, so the theory seems to fit with my experience.

Based on that, and I thought I was pretty fit for racing, reducing the amount of riding you are/were doing seems to be the best way to continue having the problem?

Try it; try ‘training’ yourself by riding more than you do at present.

OK I was buying into the ‘more exercise’ thing and thought I’d start doing the club Wednesday evening rides again, but I was just walking into town at lunchtime when I felt my calf start cramping. Now there’s no way I’m fatigued at all today, and I’d only walked 400m when it kicked in 🙁

I feel a tearing sensation in my calves or thighs, quite randomly as far as I can tell. If I ease off it sometimes fades.

This is anecdotal, but it sounds more like you’ve damaged your leg muscles, and not been able to give them a period of time, entirely devoid of riding, long enough for them to recover.

A mate suffered for years with a microtear in his calf muscle, purely becuase he would never stay off the bike for long enough for it to recover completely. I managed to give myself something similar training for the etape last year. An evenings hard road racing during my build up long distance training ripped my right calf. Took a few weeks off the bike completely as I didn’t want to nadger up 12 months of training for the etape. I escaped.

I have no idea if CK would be raised in those circumstances. Your GP is suggesting 10 days off the bike, complete rest before another test. Could be the best thing for you. To get proper advice you may need to see a proper sports physio, not a masseuse, as massage alone won’t resolve the problem.

CK is just an enzyme contained in muscle cells. If it is raised then although it may indicate recent muscle damage (as CK is removed from the bloodstream quite quickly IIRC) it does not tell you anything about the underlying cause. If you are off the bike and no exercising he is trying to rule out whether CK is still raised despite no exercising that may indicate a primary muscle problem rather than mild damage due to cramp if you see what I mean?

This is anecdotal, but it sounds more like you’ve damaged your leg muscles, and not been able to give them a period of time, entirely devoid of riding, long enough for them to recover.

yes, I think this may be the case 🙁 My masseuse says my leg muscles are full of scar tissue, “like bubble wrap”