In the long run, yes. That’s why we are members of the UN and the EU. Afghanistan and Iraq are not on the same scale as either world war, let’s be honest.

theres a belief that world war 3 has already happened (im not going all jivehoney)
the post colonial collapse of order in parts of africa has left 10 million dead in the congo alone

what is deeply hypocritical is our continued subsidised arms sales industry

just look at the peace and stability we export to teh middle east

Afghanistan and Iraq are not on the same scale as either world war, let’s be honest.

In terms of deaths of soldiers you’re probably right, in terms of civilian deaths I think you comment at best lacks understanding, at worst is blindly xenophobic

well said Ben Cooper.

coincidently, i visited a small war graves cemetry a few weeks ago on my way to a ride. tucked away at the foot of the Bavarian alps is a small British cemetry for those who died during WW2. almost exclusively air men. and a surprisingly large number of Indian officers alongside many other commonwealth and british air crew.

i think the average age was around 19-21. some of the inscriptions were quite moving.

needless to say i was a bit of a wreck for some time afterwards.

edit:

just found this on the CWGC website:

“DURNBACH WAR CEMETERY contains 2,934 Commonwealth burials of the Second World War”

wow.

beat me to it. Like so many public monuments it’s all about hierarchy, submission, predominantly working class lives being lost as a result of p-poor decisions being made by the politicians and officer classes behind the lines (Gallipolli, etc etc).

I’m sorry but that’s a view of reality that isn’t borne by the numbers, Officer casualties in both WW1 and 2 were are a far higher rate than the average. In WW1 the Officer losses were so disproportionate they had to restrict the number that were committed to battle to ensure that after the battle the unit could be reconstructed.

The distinctive point in WW1 was that all were expected to join up and the horrific casualties were shared across the social strata.

You will notice that today not single politician (that I am aware of) that has a son or daughter in the armed forces

Personally, I just can’t take the poppy nonsense seriously.

It’s almost like a big joke, WW1 and 2 were massive sacrifices, I have no truck with learning their stories and learning the lessons is important. But these lessons are learned far more valuably by watching history documentaries.

My biggest issue is that this whole remembrance thing isn’t about learning lessons, it’s about normalizing and linking today transgressions, it’s overly emotional bollocks.

I can’t take it seriously while we start wars and create conditions for the military industrial complex to run riot. i particularly can’t take it seriously when we’re one of the biggest arms suppliers.

If remembrance was anti-war I’d be all for it. But it’s far from that imo.

For these reason, I refuse to wear a poppy and the whole thing strikes me as distasteful.

what is deeply hypocritical is our continued subsidised arms sales industry

Wholly agree with you there kimbers… whatsmore, the arms lobby appears to have enough clout to steer the media narrative.

In terms of deaths of soldiers you’re probably right, in terms of civilian deaths I think you comment at best lacks understanding, at worst is blindly xenophobic

With you on that nick, the perspective generally presented by the media has a distinct whiff of patriotic propaganda.

I can’t take it seriously while we start wars and create conditions for the military industrial complex to run riot. i particularly can’t take it seriously when we’re one of the biggest arms suppliers.

If remembrance was anti-war I’d be all for it. But it’s far from that imo.

Spot on

Is our appetite for war diminished, not on the current evidence. “Trainers” being sent to Iraq???? Dont they mean the SAS who just seem to enjoy the job a little to much.

In my family I had a grandfather that served in the RFC, 1 grandfather that served as a motorcycle dispatch rider, 1 great uncle who served in the commandos, 1 great uncle who served in the Paras and two great uncles who served on the Somme. Basically a family history composed of people who served in the sharp end of the infantry.

I’m not entirely sure any of them would have agreed with what remembrance sunday has become really. The grandfather who was a dispatch rider served in the Middle East and Italy and if I remember saw action at Monte Casino, he was an especially cynical bugger.

My biggest issue is that this whole remembrance thing isn’t about learning lessons, it’s about normalizing and linking today transgressions, it’s overly emotional bollocks.

Oddly enough (?) none of that yesterday – all about remembrance, of the OBs from school and for all sides. Not overlay emotional either, simply respectful and thoughtful. Re learning lessons, every new boy is given one of the fallen to research in their first week. The first thought is to remember the lessons. Yes a wreath was also laid at the memorial to a recent OB killed but no harm or glorification in that.

If remembrance was anti-war I’d be all for it. But it’s far from that imo.

I can’t see how respecting and remembering the fallen is either pro or anti. If anything the latter….

For these reason, I refuse to wear a poppy and the whole thing strikes me as distasteful.

Each to their own.

In terms of deaths of soldiers you’re probably right, in terms of civilian deaths I think you comment at best lacks understanding, at worst is blindly xenophobic

Really? Well I’m aware of the likely numbers of civillian casualties, and that is awful indeed, but again I don’t think it’s comparable to WWI. The reasoning is completely different, the scale is different, the background is different, the prosecution is different. The only similarity is that people are dead.

Questioning the “war to end all wars”, he said before his death: “It wasn’t worth it. No war is worth it. No war is worth the loss of a couple of lives let alone thousands.”

“War,” he said, “is organised murder, and nothing else.”

Harry Patch