Plans for a huge wolf enclosure at Alladale have been shelved.

http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2010/08/12/alladale-fence-to-come-down-as-wolves-plan-shelved

Here's hoping the bylaws to stop camping on Lomondside don't sprout….

Good news.

The Lomond camping thing isn't as cut and dried in my mind, as there is a real problem that needs dealt with. Prosecution of bad campers for littering, public nuisance etc. and education have got to be better than a ban though.

I agree that something needs to be done about the "wild" camping stuff. Loch Lubnaig is fast becoming an open sewer. Personally, I can't see why they don't just modify the legislation to say that it's only allowable at least 1 mile from a public road.

Fence bad. Introducing wolves is very good tho! Aren't they legally obliged to do it anyway as they disappeared less than 400 years ago?

Nice one Druidh. That Alladale thing was always stupid

I tend to agree with you about the camping – the default position should be a distance from the road with exemptions where the landowner allows like around the kinghouse and Glen etive – although I believe Etive is getting fairly nasty nowadays as well

So in summary………..

Scottish Access laws if brought in down south would mean………

Zoo/Safari Parks are fair game for a walk? Or at the very least the fences holding deer in at National Trust parks would be illegal?

People would poo everywhere?

thisisnotaspoon – Member
So in summary………..

Scottish Access laws if brought in down south would mean………

Zoo/Safari Parks are fair game for a walk? Or at the very least the fences holding deer in at National Trust parks would be illegal?

No, but any new zoos/safaris parks would have to go through a proper planning process to ensure that major tracts of land weren't being sequestered for the benefit of a minority (do some research on Alladale to see what I'm getting at).

People would poo everywhere?

Some of the areas being discussed are being over-run by car-borne "campers", without proper facilities in place……

Ewan – Member
Fence bad. Introducing wolves is very good tho! Aren't they legally obliged to do it anyway as they disappeared less than 400 years ago?

As a highlander I have no objection to introducing "traditional" animals provided 'traditional" highlanders are allowed to deal with them in the "traditional" manner. Exterminate them. 🙂

I would love to see wolves whilst out riding.

I actually like the idea of reintroducing wolves. Surely on such a large estate they could site the area so that it did not interfere with key access. Right of access is good but some sensible compromises are needed on both sides to allow native wildlife to be reintroduced.

TINAS

Druidh knows the detail better than me but:-

It don't work like that. Alladale wanted to fence off a huge area and deny folk access to it – it includes an entire mountain. You can fence areas off but you cannot deny access to huge areas of uncultivated land. ie you must put stiles in.

You can deny access to land that is cultivated or in use for particular purposes but it must be reasonable.

This was hundreds ( ???) of times bigger than a safari park – we have one in Scotland anyway.

Camping is allowed almost anywhere – but some of the popular spots like lock lubnaig are now overused with folk haveing parties on a Saturday night – and the shit gets left quicker than it decays away.

Even some of the walkers spots are getting shit polluted – like around he shelterstone IIRC and some of the bothies

Edit – too slow

I have no problem about introducing wolves either, but that means letting them roam, not confining them to a fenced-in area. Otherwise, it's not really "re-introducing wild animals", is it?

Can we have bears as well please?

Wolves would help keep deer numbers down which can only be good.

This was hundreds ( ???) of times bigger than a safari park – we have one in Scotland anyway.

Which is rubbish now that the monkey's can't pull the windscreen wipers off.

wolves … awesome !!!

So basically it was down to them not wanting to put stiles in? Or was the other side getting antsy becuase they couldn't put a stile every 200 yards?

Must have been some fence to keep wolves in …

ADH – they were going to refuse open access –

Must have been some fence to keep wolves in ..

a 2 m high electric fence. They were proposing escorted trips across the enclosure.

Simply not acceptable. Right to roam means simply that. An entire mountain cannot be closed off.

Massive fence. A landie track running parallel for "servicing".

No stiles as they wanted to keep the public out either…

(a) for their own safety.

or

(b) so they could charge their clients several hundred pounds per night and the same again for a tour by land rover.

Ach, noofties.

Compared to the appalacian trail where being eaten by a bear is a real risk coupled with national park regs which prevent you having so much as a plastic spork to defend yourself, its a bit lame eh?

Just stick the wolves out there and let nature take it's course. When there's enough wolves to weed out the weak deer, ghillies can be given fixed quotas to shoot them for pelts.

I read that Beavers were back.

Beavers were finally reintroduced last year IIRC. Immediately one of the males was shot. However they survived the first winter
http://www.scottishbeavers.org.uk/

Introduce as many animals as they like, so long as native highlanders are allowed to hunt them. I'm quite happy to do so using traditional methods – spear and knife.

But of course that wouldn't happen. Instead the numbers would increase until they needed to be culled, which of course would be done by obscenely wealthy types who pay for the opportunity to kill something from a safe distance.

Also it would be discovered that wolves and bears may be somewhat dangerous and the areas where they roamed would have to be fenced off to keep out the peasants unsuspecting ramblers.

It would add a little frisson to rambling by foot or bike tho if there were proper predators about. There you are sitting eating your sandwiches when a bear ambles up and asks for a share. Well you ain't gonna refuse are you?

Wolves don't go for people anyway really – nor European bears.

I do like a nice beaver

TandemJeremy – Member
…Wolves don't go for people anyway really – nor European bears.

Funny how they are now cute cuddly furry animals.

In the days when they were roaming around freely, they were dangerous. Or were our ancestors stupid?

If you've got a huge great electric fence around a large empty patch of land you might as well do things properly!

This was hundreds ( ???) of times bigger than a safari park – we have one in Scotland anyway.

Dundee?

epicyclo – I believe thats the experience in Scandinavia where the wolves are slowly spreading their range. They do like a nice sheep but only attack people if they are desperate.

Can we have bears as well please?

but don't bears sh1t in the woods?

TandemJeremy – Member
epicyclo – I believe thats the experience in Scandinavia where the wolves are slowly spreading their range. They do like a nice sheep but only attack people if they are desperate.

I've spent too much of my life in places with large toothed predators to believe any of them are "safe".

I'm not afraid of them, but I would want the right to carry a means of defence if they were introduced.

Desperate can be as little as 2 days since the last meal. Predators are usually intelligent hunters and if they want you, they'll probably get you.

Introduce wolves to Loch – problem solved 😆

BTW let's introduce these large predators in the cities first. There's more food, and it would quickly solve the homeless problem.

epicyclo – Member
As a highlander I have no objection to introducing "traditional" animals provided 'traditional" highlanders are allowed to deal with them in the "traditional" manner. Exterminate them

Epicyclo seen recently

Here's hoping the bylaws to stop camping on Lomondside don't sprout….

It's a controversial one for sure but if it keeps the scum away that's a good thing. People travel from all over the world to walk the WHW and they find themselves walking through sh*t infested rubbish tips in certain places up the east side. Is this what we want people to see when they visit or to see ourselves even? Have you ever been to Sallochy on a Monday morning for example? I think a lot of the problem is SOAC giving people all these legal rights when they don't know how to act responsibly. SOAC works on the assumption you have some level of intelligence but many of the people who visit the countryside haven't even heard of SOAC.

I have to agree though that it's a real shame for the responsible camper. Hopefully the police will turn a blind eye to those doing things correctly.

If you rough camp how hard is it to dig a hole to crap in? burn the bog paper and put the turf back.Its not that hard ffs.

TandemJeremy – Member

Beavers were finally reintroduced last year IIRC. Immediately one of the males was shot. However they survived the first winter
http://www.scottishbeavers.org.uk/

indeed i would like to see alot more beaver when out in the countryside 😆 esp wild swimming and sunbathing…sorry TJ couldnt help it!..carry on everyone,good thread 😮

Edric 64 – Member

If you rough camp how hard is it to dig a hole to crap in? burn the bog paper and put the turf back.Its not that hard ffs.

Even if you do this too many folk doing it causes pollution as the crap takes a long time to rot away

Around some of the popular sites ( not roadside but mountaineering sites) everytime you dig a hole its already got a crap in it and the water table is now polluted. People have caught E coli from the water in the burns.

The advice from the MCof S is now to bag up your crap and carry it out.

On Loch Tay this week, my staff FILLED a 2.4t double wheeled box trailer with rubbish left by campers, in one place!
Lubnaig, Lubhair, Dochart and Earn are all lined with campers down the lochshore and associated rubbish, behaviour, crime, trees being cut down etc etc.
Even Etive today had a good few campers today and mess left around in some passing places.
I do not want ANY restrictions on access, and love the freedom of it up here. But we have to do something about the issue of 'wild car camping' by some total numpties.

While I like the access rights in Scotland, we are talking about 400 acres – in the Highlands. Thats probably the equivilent of a field, down in the South East, that the public can't access.

I don't think though that the re-introduction of Wolves has really been well thought out – these are wild animals, that hunt in packs – they are dangerous.

Thin end of the wedge though, innit?