this is indeed pure stw gold

Indeed. This thread is like the quintessence of numerous 650b debates, rolled into one multifaceted and puzzling hora thread. It delivers on so many levels, yet fundamentally the OP is correct.

Ride 650b and you have a wheel size that has lost something of the fun, playful feel of The Classic Wheel size.

Admittedly, you have also gained some Gnar-factor – by about 11, but for most of us normal riders, going out for a ride on the same trails we’ve ridden for 20 odd years, it’s simply not necessary. 29er, at the far end of the spectrum is a bit of a mixed bag – and again – not my bag. A joylessly numbing local-anesthetic for the trial.

If 650b is in the middle of these two, it gains and loses some, but for most of us it will be the loss – of fun – that matters most.

This said, I still have a completely irrational hankering for a Santa Cruz 5010, that won’t go away, even though I test-rode one round Afan and was fairly non-plussed. It just looks nice. In a jelly-mould way. And that promo video with Peaty is sick.

Ride 650b and you have a wheel size that has lost something of the fun, playful feel of The Classic Wheel size.

I’ve certainly noticed the extra rotating mass on 29 – much less lively in acceleration. Can’t tell if it’s faster, it takes so much longer to get up to speed in the first place.

Frosty, I just checked again and you’re quite right! The weird thing is I don’t remember seeing a second line of data for the 160mm version and I checked the travel and wheel size before posting. Premature senility…

However this would explain Hora preferring it because it gets the BB a bit higher and increases slackness and trail to something more like the 27.5 wheels.

I found a good interview with Cy from Cotic where he said the following:

“The only really obvious thing that we noticed was they’re just that bit…’calmer’. What it was, particularly on the hardtails, what we found was…we had this test loop and we went round and round and round, and we had all three different wheel sizes, for the three of us, you know, me Ian and Paul, we went out to Luchon in the Pyrenees in November to do like a solid week on these bikes. And we just had bikes everywhere, stems, and oh man, we just really went to town on it to really get into where it all stood. And the biggest difference was…(pauses)…it’s the whole bike pitching front to back. Like on choppy ground, the 26” bike gets this real kind of ‘pitch’ on, and the 27.5 is just a bit calmer in that respect, it doesn’t drop into the holes quite as much, the wheelbase was a bit longer, so it was just that bit more kind of…’calmer’ and more confidence inspiring a little bit. But in terms of the way it worked, everything about it, the way it manualled, the way it cornered…it was just the same.”

“Whereas the 29er is kind of a bit more kind of…lazy. You know it kind of feels like you’re scribing these great long arcs on the 29er, you’re carrying tonnes of speed, but it’s very prescriptive, whereas you can kinda…you can still dick about on the 27.5” bike like you can on the 26. And I mean, that’s the frustrating thing really, is that it’s much of a muchness.”

—–

I think it makes a lot of sense! That’s from Jan 2014 for context.

Downfall style vid: http://captiongenerator.com/49219/Why-isnt-26-dead-yet

Loved that video!

Fun is totally independent of wheel size my 29er is way more fun than any 26er i’ve owned. I’m a BMXer so very much in the fun and throwing things around camp. I really do not understand the wheel size vs fun debate.

for me No_eye_dear has hit the nail on the head, can we just stick that up as post 2 on any wheel size thread?

I really do not understand the wheel size vs fun debate.

of course you don’t

+1

Succintly put.

Apart from this sweeping statement about 29ers:

A joylessly numbing local-anesthetic for the trial

I call Bullshit.

Hora you really are weird…..you said you wanted the thread to end yet resurrect it with some shite post after two weeks???

Hora you really are weird…..you said you wanted the thread to end yet resurrect it with some shite post after two weeks???

+1

Succintly put.

😆

leave the attention wh0re alone 😛

Renton shouldnt you be doing burnouts at your local Ford-mod club meet?

I cant ride my mountainbike currently due to rotar/ligament damage so I was looking through bike threads.

You selling the Commy then?

Well dragged up!

Hopefully going to have a shiny new 650b Comical turning up on Friday (frame/forks only).

I’ve also got a set of the wrong size wheels sat in the shed… Hmm might have to have an experiment.

Scandal like **** I am. Im missing riding it. Currently its setup for 26/650b front

Can somebody please swap the stickers on hora’s wheels around…

And the ones on his medication while your at it?

Get well soon Hora.

Rode three 650b bikes in Canada recently, 2 hardtails and a Giant Glory, to be honest I couldn’t tell the difference. Makes me think my 26 full sus is ok.

Had my first ride on my own 650b bike today and I didn’t notice a difference in wheelsize.

”These bikes are way, way too good to not catch on.”

NSMB on 650b+

😉

I stopped beleiving journalist (or reviews that catch attention/help draw in advertising (if its a web mag). Or albeit take what they say into account and make my own mind up.

Alot of people want to be told what they should get, then get used to it.

Took me a while but I dont buy into the industry bullshit.

Genuinely some stuff does improve rides- taper (stiffer), droppers (wee) but pissing about trying to tamper with wheels affects fundamental ‘feel’.

As with good cars, it should feel fundamentally right when you jump in for the first time. Some riders will naturally prefer 650b feel.

But for everyone else?

As per my (much) earlier post it depends on what you were/are riding before you change. i have a XC orientated HT with 26″ wheels and a 650b FS and they feel very very different. Some of the difference is wheel size but a lot is the fact that the FS has ‘modern’ geometry whereas the HT has ‘traditional’ XC geometry. Also the HT has a Reba (which is great) but the FS has a Pike (much much better) so that makes a real difference.

As long as we all keep riding bikes we like riding then that’s good enough for me 🙂

This bike. This bike is amazing. This bike goes wherever you want it to go. It does whatever you want it to do. It has boatloads of traction, even when it shouldn’t. It’s supple and lively and feels like it has about 20-30 mm more travel than the actual 160mm that it possesses. It steamrolls braking bumps and chatter. It cares not about loose rocks. It just quietly goes about its job of kicking ass.

Oh, so it feels like a 29er? No sh1t, Sherlock.

GW test rode a 650b – didn’t like it.

/debate shirely??

As with good cars, it should feel fundamentally right when you jump in for the first time.

That’s a load of bollocks. A bike is quite unlikely to have the right stem, saddle and bars for any given individual all set up in the exact right spots straight out of the shop.

I think I have found the answer.

Failing to learn from mistakes is genetic

or

As with good cars, it should feel fundamentally right when you jump in for the first time.

Utter shit, it assumes that the bike is the limiting factor when i most cases it’s the rider. If you can’t adapt to something better then you won’t improve.

Lets keep picking on Hora. It makes me feel more of a man.

it assumes that the bike is the limiting factor when i most cases it’s the rider

No, it doens’t. It’s wrong but not for that reason!

really? refusing to adapt to a different bike? What is the reason, whatever it is it’s a crap one

But the bike might not be what you want in the first place.

A bike has a reaosnably wide range of adjustments and tweaks you can make, and a rider has a reasonably wide range of adaptations and things they want from a bike. You can adapt the bike and/or your riding but the end result might not be what you wanted in the first place…

Had my first ride on my own 650b bike today and I didn’t notice a difference in wheelsize.

Has someone quoted my post from page 3?

Edit- give up. You cant enlighten everyone

Its funny all of the quicker guys I’ve ridden with don’t tend to worry about such and such angle or an extra 20 mm here etc etc, they adapt.