Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)
  • 456..or..Cotic Soul.or Kona Explosif..or Rock Lobster 853..or a Sanderson frame?
  • TimothyD
    Free Member

    Help, i’m in a quandry about what steel hardtail frame i’d like my for xmas, i’ve generous parents who are doing okay, luckily for me.

    I liked my brothers 97 Kona Kindercone, and the Cotic Soul I tried reacently at Dales Bikes (lovely people) in the Yorkshire Dales seemed to combine the niceness of older steel frames with ‘confident angles’, but having slightly dodgy elbows, i’m wondering if the potential 160mm travel of a 456 could be a better option, with me being perhaps able to buy lighter weight wheels eventually to make up for a heavier frame. I’d have to contribute some of the money towards a Soul, but that’s no hardship.

    The Rock Lobster seems like it’s a little bit more old school than a Soul or 456, in having reccomended travel for shorter forks, and being possibly more ‘stretched and flat’ maybe than the Soul and 456, and while i’m at it, what are 1010 Kona Explosifs like, what travel forks can they take?

    Has anybody any thoughts to help me decide what frame i’d like for xmas?

    Thanks,
    Tim

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    The old Cindercone felt a bit too springy, where as the Soul I tried felt just right somehow.

    Tim

    ojom
    Free Member

    By dodgy elbows what do you mean? Do you feel you need more ‘give’ up front to aid your riding?

    Bear in mind that a good frame with sorted geometry may be better for you in terms of overall handling and feeling settled rather than longer forks. I have a gubbed left shoulder and found that upping the travel on my bikes was the easiest but worst thing to do. A slack angled bike with 130mm seems to work well for the way my arms flail out to the sides…

    We do a few of the Alpines from Dialled Bikes here and also the Sanderson Blitz.

    Have a look at these two as suggestions.

    To aid your parents we offer a voucher code if STWTBC on our webshop if they look good for you but bear in mind something like a Soul may be the ticket – perhaps test ride again at Dales?

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    bassspine
    Free Member

    ok, you’re having the Soul.

    when you read that did you think ‘I wanted the Lobster’? Then get that…

    cycleworlduk
    Free Member

    cotic soul…no reason,just like em!

    mendip
    Free Member

    Out of your list, I would buy the Cotic Soul, brilliant frame and popular with bikers. For value of money then On-One 456 and pay the extra for better parts for it like lighter wheels or forks.

    Forget Kona, old skool Kona were brilliant until 1999, they have lost it edge since then.

    Both Cotic and On-One frames will sell well and easily if you dont like the ride, with Kona you lose alot of money.

    ChunkyMTB
    Free Member

    Get a Soul if your parents are paying. Stick some coil Pikes on the front – bosh! Job done.

    stevede
    Free Member

    Another vote for the soul, have one built up with pikes, wide bars and short stem and its loads of fun.
    If your on a budget go for a 2nd hand soul frame if you can find one or if you must go new then a ragley blue pig or 456.

    t-p26
    Free Member

    <cough> Dialled Bikes Prince Albert</cough> if he has one in your size! A bit different from a 234 or whatever it is and only slightly more less cheap.Lovely and will work with a 150mm fork

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    Dodgy elbows, from doing loads of rock climbing, they’ve been dodgy for approx ten years, and have incrementally got better, from it hurting to have elbow bent while lying on back while holding a magazine, to being able to do general physical things like carrying full log baskets about a foot deep and a foot and third across, it has taken a while to get a handle on them as it were.

    I was thinking long plush forks could be a good thing, and i’d still take the smoothest lines I can do.

    My parents said they’d pay 300 for a frame, or towards a frame, or for a frame and bits and bobs, depending on what i’d like.

    Does a large frame seem about right for a six foot person, with 32 regular jeans, the one I demo-ed didn’t feel too big.

    Tim

    Chadders
    Free Member

    Dont get the Kona.

    I havnt ridden a cotic soul, but I do have a 456. I have pretty high quality kit on it and some VERY light wheels, and its great.

    Handles really well and climbs well. Its the ultimate do-it-all hardtail. And yes I know thats what it says on the website etc etc but it is true.

    Mine is a 16″ and weighs 27.5lbs. which is great. But i’m changing my heavy seat/seatpost for much lighter ones this weekend so that should take the weight down to 27lbs I’d of thought. You can build them lighter, but you do need some strong parts on it cos otherwise it would be pointless buying such a thrashable frame.

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    I think the philosophers are right, we have a surfeit of choice in western society.

    This steel frame, or that steel frame, or this steel frame, or that other steel frame.

    ..aarrgghh….

    Chadders
    Free Member

    6ft with a 32″ leg!

    How short are your legs! Must be like when I went in one of them mirror things at the fair, makes your body look long and legs short etc

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    The Cotic Soul did feel nice, I can always swap the parts onto a 456 with them being so cheap I guess.

    Cotic Soul it is I think.

    Interesting about Konas being old fashioned, they do look somehow old school, which could be a good thing if that’s what you’re after, i’m not sure it’s what i’m looking for though.

    Thanks for the advice all,

    Tim

    postierich
    Free Member

    How about a Singular running mine with 140 forks loverly frame
    [
    Mmmmm Greeness by Richard Munro, on Flickr

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    32/34 jeans I ment, not 32 legs.

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    I’ve got a Rock Lobster 853, and I love it. Probbly the lightest frame of that selection, by a fair bit on one or two of them.

    More a fast XC machine I spose, suited to 100mm-ish fork, although I run my Rebas at 115 no probs. Being a light frame, it’s probbly not built for hucking off stuff too much, although it’s ok if you’re small and light like me.

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    By dodgy elbows, read weak and not very strong, and prone to grumbling if pushed too far.

    I had thought about a singular, but i’m not sure.

    Tim

    gee
    Free Member

    Salsa Ala Carte steel? I’m loving mine! Not ridden anything else for rides (rather than racing) since I got it in September. Plus they do an awesome rigid fork to go with it.

    stevede
    Free Member

    Just to add to your options a cotic BFe is £370 new and warranted for longer forks – maybe matched with a u turn coil lyrik.
    Same geometry as a soul but slightly heavier, warrantied for longer forks and a hundred quid cheaper – just a thought if you liked the geometry of the soul but need a longer fork.

    postierich
    Free Member

    Take a gamble with the Hummingbird! the finish is superb not tried it with gears though if thats your thing 😕 contact Sam for a test ride on one!

    Rich

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    6ft with a 32″ leg!

    How short are your legs! Must be like when I went in one of them mirror things at the fair, makes your body look long and legs short etc

    I’m exactly that size, well a 32″ is on the verge of being too short but not noticable, usualy a 33 or a short 34. And I have a 18″ 456, I built it up a s a bit of ablunderbuss, and it suits it nicely. I think I’m right in saying the cotic is mroe suited to shorter forks anyway, with most people settling arround 110-120mm? I run 150mm forks (more like the height of 170mm being older marzocchi wit the taller corwns) for fun stuff and its a real sledgehammer, whereas for 99.9% off stuff in the UK you need a toffee hammer.

    Sanderson’s aren’t too different to the soul, but only recomend upto 120mm forks IIRC and slightly longer so maybe think abotu droping downa size, I have 18″ but its for XC rides not playing about.

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    I’m more of a carefull XC rider due to elbows.

    I’ve an 18 inch 2002 Kona Kincercone at the moment, and the top tube is approx 22 inches and it feels quite cramped when going up hills, though fun going down hills because I can get behiend the saddle and be daft.

    I’d be happy to have less oportunity for daftness if it ment I didn’t have to lean forward so much when going up hill or feel cramped. The 24 inch top tube on the Cotic Soul didn’t feel too long, though with an inline seat post because it was a staff bike which happened to be around at the time. If anything it felt like it wasn’t as long as I thought I could get away with having tried sliding back a long way on the saddle of my Cindercone.

    I’m thinking that the actuall mm of fork travel might not be the whole story with regards to keeping my elbows happy, and fork plusness and the overall balance of the bike are important as well.

    I’ve only around 80mm of travel from my Bomber XCR air forks at the mo, so 130 or 140 will probably feel great anyway, and could be all I need for carefull XC/finding smooth lines down things is my thinking.

    Tim

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    Smooth for me at least, other people are probably better at going down hill.

    Thanks for the help all…

    Tim

    Edric64
    Free Member

    Buy the best quality frame rather than put expensive parts on a cheapo like the 456.A quality frame is the heart of the bike .

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    Cotic soul and a 120mm fork would be perfect

    456 & a 160mm fork would be awful

    metalheart
    Free Member

    Not sure where you are going with the careful XC rider and 160mm forks… More movement more elbow action surely.

    I seem to recall Cy saying somewhere that the Soul was ‘based’ on his old Kona but tweaked for what he wanted. If you liked the Kona you should love the Soul.

    Second the get the best frame you can. I’d rather have a lighter frame with more bomber wheels than a bomber frame with light wheels…

    I’m biased but I’d go with the Soul. 100-120mm forks are fine (but got Pike’s on mine now at 110). Ran it for a good while on Talas at the min. Adjustable is a great idea until yo find what you like.

    monsoonsoul
    Free Member

    It has to be a Cotic Soul. Doesn’t it?

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    That could be a good point about the 160 forks, with the longer forks I was half thinking of ‘hanging back’ as it were and letting the forks absorb the bumps rather than my elbows, I reckon i’m decided on a Cotic Soul though, because it did feel nice. I guess I can always go slowly if I need to.

    How would Rockshox Tora forks be as a cheapish(!) adjustable option untill I decide on what I like?

    I have half a plan which is to get TimFlooks to fiddle with some Revelation forks if the can do to make the travel go from around 80 or 90 to 140mm, rather than 120 to 140mm as they seem to be sold as now.

    Probably I just like the idea of fiddling and having something bespoke though. That might end up being expensive.

    Thanks,
    Tim

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    Yes, it does have to be the Soul. 🙂

    Chadders
    Free Member

    davidtaylforth – Member
    456 & a 160mm fork would be awful

    Sorry but how have you come to that conclusion?
    Do you know anything about the 456 frame?

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    On-One now reccomend 160mm MAX travel for the 456 on thier website.

    It is since it walked all over the latest European MTB tests, for what it’s worth.

    Tim

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    Oops, misinterpreted your post to him.

    forget I posted. {non-yellow smiley}

    Dalesbikecentre
    Full Member

    Tim – decisions decisions, the chase is part of the fun!

    We’ve a medium and a large Cotic Soul demo bike, we can try running our medium big with off-set seat post etc and runnin our Large short in the same way. Give us a shout if you want to come and size up

    Oh btw, we’ve got medium orange in stock 😮

    Stu (one of the nice people;-)

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    Sorry but how have you come to that conclusion?
    Do you know anything about the 456 frame?

    I’m more of a carefull XC rider

    160mm forks for xc, truly awful as i said before

    Chadders
    Free Member

    The 456 geometry suits that size of fork though!
    And your only gonna use the travel that you need.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    sounds like youve settled on the soul, but cost and tubing quality wise youve got a lot of options between the ghettofabulous 456 and the dandy Soul; dialled bikes alpine or prince albert, pipedream sirius, genesis altitude to name but a few. I got a 456 as a cheap reintroduction into HT’s after 5 years away (due to spine problem) and it is a lot of fun (currently fitted with 140mm Revs) but had I known I would get on with them I would probably have gone for something dandier. Love the Soul in orange but also a fan of the Dialled bikes, and as its ridden back to back with a 160mm FS I like the longer travel options.

    A nice position to be in and nice to see you appreciate it rather than take it for granted.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    The 456 geometry suits that size of fork though!
    And your only gonna use the travel that you need.

    I wouldnt say suits, I’d say it can accommodate a 160mm fork but its better with something like a 130mm fork.

    An why bother having the travel if your not going to use it for gentle xc?

    Chadders
    Free Member

    Well yeah fair enough but I was just saying it aint actually gonna cause a problem.

    and the 456 frame geometry is designed so that when a 4,5 or 6 inch travel fork is at full compression, the angles/geo is still correct and it doesnt all just go out the window.
    and with no compression its right too.

    from experience and other people i know Id say the 456 rides better with a 130-160mm fork than it does with a 100-130

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    160mm on any hardtail is daft, unless all your doing is riding downhill trakcs, and even then its a bit silly (unless its somehting incredibly rough)

    wallowing about in 160mm travel isnt fun for any sort of xc

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)

The topic ‘456..or..Cotic Soul.or Kona Explosif..or Rock Lobster 853..or a Sanderson frame?’ is closed to new replies.