Horizontal is just bollocks to make it sound shorter.

I’m in the bath.

@ Brant – I know you’re just winding me up for shits and giggles, but I’m going to bite anyway.

When people are getting their knickers in a twist about chainstay length on 29er (which is only part of the story, I’ll agree), they’re really talking about rear centre. On a 26″ bike the rear centre and c/stay length are virtually identical. That’s not the case on 29ers and the horizontal gives a more accurate comparison IMO.

Yes but if everyone is quoting actual chainstay length (as is the norm for the 26″ historical reasons stated) and then someone else claims (or insinuates) that theirs are shorter by using a horizontal measurement instead that’s the aforementioned bollocks, isn’t it?

When you’re pulling the bike into a hop or jump the actual chainstay is what matters, it dictates the arc the bb moves around the axle and is fixed. Horizontal is ok for seated pedaling but road bikes don’t use it either.
Edit to add- Fair point about comparisons tho. Do we have to show 2 CS measurements now? Ffs )

It’s not bollocks if you tell people what you’re measuring and it’s not wrong. It’s also more accurate to compare horizontal 29er with regular chainstay measurement on a 26″ bike IMO.

It’s not bollocks if you tell people what you’re measuring

Of course not though jameso made a fair point.

It is bollocks when people fixate on one measurement in isolation and you maybe take advantage of that. Of course, that may not be the intention in this instance…

all this talk of short chainstays reminds me of the good/bad old days of ‘we have the shortest chainstays’ when big rings over lapped tyres!

like:

weirdly someone pulled up at the lights the other day on a estay star that had been turned in a hack bike.. still cool!

i have enough trouble when some bike geometry is quoted in inches and others in mm,, when designing mine i looked at the “others” to see what people are doing and spent ages converting into mm

i think center to center is easier, but on bikes like 29ers with the bb a long way below the axle height then there can be a big difference between both measurments

while we are bitching i like bb height rather than drop, and i may start quoting HA and SA in radians

Whats the collective noun for bike designers – seems like a little convention going on here 🙂

Just for the record – I’m happily riding 15.95″ (405.4mm) along the stay and 15.75″ (400mm) horizontal. Not exactly a huge difference between the two dimensions.

I think the fixation on certain numbers (rear centre, head angle, fork rake etc) does have more relevence to 29ers where people are trying to get a bike that feels as responsive as a 26er whilst retaining the good bits that can come with larger wheels.

rootes 1 – click on my links on previous page…..

rootes 1 – click on my links on previous page…..

missed those. ace! like you frame and especially your 80/20 jig

On my horizontal Scandal, I have the rear wheel slid as far forward in the drop outs as it will go, the tyres only 5-10mm from the seat tube, but I dont run a front mech so its not a problem.

they’re really talking about rear centre.

really? I mean do most people know what they want, or just repeating what they have heard and think they want?

Imo keep measurements simple. Bit like when the discussion was about sag and how some like to quote HA when sagged, all pointless and confusing.

Some more news on the Singular Buzzard prototype here. CS 420mm (centre to centre 🙂