Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)
  • 29+ instead of a suspension fork?
  • cookeaa
    Full Member

    I’ve sort of got it in my head that a front ‘plus’ tyre can take the place of a suspension fork… (never ride one)

    I have been musing my next MTB (some way off TBH) I think I have decided that rather than chopping in my 26″ for 27.5″ I will probably go for a 29er but something like a Honzo or Sherpa a slacker HA, fun HT for general trail riding duties…

    Now I initially thought 100-120mm suspension fork up front but could such a bike work with a rigid fork and a 29+ front tyre instead? Currently a 140mm fork serves me well with 26×2.3″ tyre but I hear/read about the floaty suspension like wonders of 29+ and I do very much appreciate the simplicity and potential weight savings a rigid fork would offer.

    I wouldn’t want a 29+ rear tyre, a more standard 2.2-2.5″ which keeps more frame options open, nor would I want a fat bike 29×3.0 on the front would be the limit ..

    Is the whole idea fanciful bolleux from too much exposure to niche marketing, or a credible option?

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    Depends on what you are normally riding imo.
    If you are doing lots of drops (even small ones), rock gardens or braking bumps, i’d stick with the sus fork.

    On the other hand if its mainly what i call trail chatter (small roots, large pebbles, embedded cobble sized rocks) then a +tyre really does soak it up quite nicely

    stuey
    Free Member

    imho 29+ is not smoother or faster than suspension or fullfat, just has more momentum and grip. I find 29+ still jarring at speed over hard ploughed fields.

    MrTricky
    Free Member

    You have just described a Stooge and I have just built what you describe. Chronicle on a 50mm rim up front, Chunky Mmonkey 2.4 on a narrower rim out back, old fashioned hubs etc. Couldn’t come to terms with the price and reliability of a modern suspension fork. It is not as good as suspension, obviously, but the diameter and volume make things bearable enough for almost all my riding.

    JohnClimber
    Free Member

    Why not get the best of both worlds?

    Short travel fork and 29er+

    bonesetter
    Free Member

    I don’t think the OP has your budget JC 😉

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    had a krampus, sold a krampus, why? i much preferred riding my short travel (100mm either end) full sus at the time,

    sure the krampus had its moments, but they were few and far between, but anything over 50km and it used to destroy me, to the point i couldn’t grip the bars, the 29+ in no way replaced a suspension fork (for the riding i did, and the way i ride, i don’t like to plod, ever)

    had a lauf, sold a lauf, why? i much prefer riding a 100mm front fork

    sure, the lauf had its moments, but they were few and far between, ill buy a Lauf grit eaarly next year, as i see that as a sweetspot maybe, but as a replacement for a suspension fork, for myself, then no, it wasn’t for me

    Del
    Full Member

    now. jc. apart from them being eye-wateringly expensive. is intrigued. how do you find it? is it noodly?
    for reference i went from a fox 32 on my old orange 5 to an old style pike and found i over-steered everywhere until i got dialed in.

    bonesetter
    Free Member

    I’ve been rigid for a few years after loads of (29er) FS bikes

    I found I went less and less travel, then finding myself locking the fork for anything but the knarliset (2% of the ride) so went fully rigid

    You need to concentrate harder, pick your line etc, but for the added effort comes more payback when you get it right. Plus has just made the whole experience ten times more fun and condition adjustable

    Some great plus compatable rigids now – Krampus, Stooge, Jones Plus…

    Here’s a quote from dRjOn

    if it helps anyone who is pondering trying a demo out, if you like messing around in the woods on a bike, a Jones may well be the perfect bike.

    it can, of course, be ridden anywhere to do anything – just like any bike. no, it wont let you conquer an enduro or get the most out of the fall line trail at ski hills, but if you want to wind yourself round woodsy trails, Jeff knows a thing or two about getting your weight balanced between the wheels in such a way that you are relaxed and poised, primed to try and take those twists and turns and ups and downs with confidence.

    Yes, it is rigid, and that is a *good* thing in certain scenarios. You have to be going at a fair rate to get the adrenalin flowing with 5+ inches of travel on demand, but the sh!t eating grin that is produced when you make a simple bike fly through a tight trail is attainable without going to a trail centre or the back country.

    bonesetter
    Free Member

    Oh, and any excuse to post this (XL Trek Stache 5 – nice ride)

    No, the rider isn’t 7′ tall

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    If you want to experiment I have an unused set of the rigid forks from Trek Stache 5 for sale. £70 or some kind of half decent offer.

    foureyes
    Free Member

    Cookeaa I watched a buddy ride a fully rigid Stache all year and finally caved in and bought my own. 29+ Wheel size just irons stuff out but drops are best taken carefully and the fork will never save you like a decent sus of course! I wanted the rigid one but left it too late and have a sus fork on mine and it’s still ace but obviously heavier. Still lofts and pops ridiculously easily. Munrobiker I would have your hand off for it but the front wheel is boosted and I think that fork is standard?

    foureyes
    Free Member

    Ps Cookeaa don’t underestimate the cost of 29plus tyres!! A winter set will hurt a lot

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Ooooh munrobiker that’s tempting actually, but I am just thinking out loud at the minute and SWMBO will beat me senseless if I spend any money on stuff which isn’t a present for her this side of Christmas… so I’ll pass, but cheers.

    Cheers for the input all, still not sure about the idea, I have had rigid 26″ bikes in the past and gotten on well enough with them, I can see how a bit more tyre cush and roll over might tip the balance towards 29+ I am done with FS bikes but still think I might miss the advantages of springs an oil up front…

    I did a fag packet calc and a 29×3″ tyre would seem to be almost double the volume of my current 26×2.3, that’s got to be a significant factor…

    @bonesetter – Don’t show me pictures of Stashes, I am oddly drawn to them, but lack the funds right now…

    foureyes
    Free Member

    Weirdly even at about 13psi the tyres don’t deform that much I don’t sense much Cush it’s mainly it’s the roll over and the traction and the insane roller coaster sensation 🙂

    bonesetter
    Free Member

    26″ rigid is harsh

    tuboflard
    Full Member

    Will it be your only bike? I’m not sure I’d have it as my only bike, but also depends where you mostly ride.

    Currently got a Singular Rooster in 29+ front and rear, absolutely love it but as others have said, it will only work well on certain types of trails. Rock gardens, drops and steep stuff isn’t much fun. but woodland single track, stuff which is more gravel trail buzz and smoother moorland single track, its great and I find much more rewarding than just ploughing through with a full suspension bike.

    Cost of tyres is definitely a factor too but should be able to get by with a winter set of 2.5’s and a summer set of Chronicles I think.

    takisawa2
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t put a suspension fork back on my Niner.
    The 29+ isn’t as plush but the zero maintenance & grin inducing lunacy of what’s basically a big BMX is great.
    Proper wide rims are a must though & tubeless.
    For looming round Cannock it’s spot on.

    I had a quick spin on a Stash & it felt incredibly stiff.
    Skinny steel is where it’s at.

    But back to your question, no, I don’t miss a suspension fork.

    JohnClimber
    Free Member

    Del – Member
    how do you find it? is it noodly?
    for reference i went from a fox 32 on my old orange 5 to an old style pike and found i over-steered everywhere until i got dialed in.

    What the hell is a “noodly” ride?
    I’m no reviewer of any sort, all I know that the Lauf’s suit my type of XC wheels on the ground, mincing down gnarly stuff style of riding, they simply “absorb the ride” as their logo says.

    vondally
    Free Member

    I currently have a stooge half fat with a 45 north husker du 26x 4.0 front and 2.8 with trailblazer

    My other bike is a Yeti sb 95 -29er with 150 mm front and 125 mm rear travel, it has not seen the light of day since I got the stooge.

    The front rigid rolls really well And yes more challenging in certain circumstances – rock gardens are hard work and if the tyre pressure is off then pinged around like a pinball, sodden moorland on Sunday was trying but interesting.

    Other places are unbelievable fun, dry moorland, trail centres and Singletrack.

    It is more challenging but that is balanced by the enjoyment and general silliness.

    Edit ..agree with the bmx comment

    Cheezpleez
    Full Member

    I have a Stooge and a Swift with 29+ fronts. I love ’em and the Stooge especially is astonishingly capable for a rigid bike.

    Del
    Full Member

    i mean the fox, at 140, flexed so much when turning the bars that you ended up turning the bars further than you might with stiffer forks to get the same direction at the wheel. going from the qr fox 32 to old maxle pike i was literally turning the bars too far going in to the same bends to start with.
    i’m far from a ‘rad’ rider but even i noticed the difference.

    tazzymtb
    Full Member

    A lot is down to the rigid fork as well, a 29+ in a nice titanium black sheep fork was lush and easily as comfortable as an 80mm-100 29er fork with out any of the maintenance hassle. Did cost more than a suspension fork as well, but hey, what price bespoke niche and beardy hipster points 🙂

    Be interesting to see how my new custom ti 29+ will compare.

    takisawa2
    Full Member

    In keeping with tradition, I hereby seize the chance to post a pic.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/PYAbF1]IMG_0951[1][/url] by pten2106, on Flickr

    firestarter
    Free Member

    I recently got a Jones with a 26 3.8 nate on the front and a 29 2.3 on the rear it rides lovely. Not sure how much of that is down to the fork as the fork is something else. I’m toying with the idea of putting a 27.5 2.8 trailblazer in the rear as it should fit hopefully lol

    I like the different size tyre front and rear in seems to work very well on my other bike I have a 27.5 Bridger on the front with a trailblazer on the rear I’m thinking of trying that with a 29er 2.4 on the rear.

    It’s nice to have options 🙂

    jameso
    Full Member

    .. a front ‘plus’ tyre can take the place of a suspension fork

    Depends what you mean by or your expectations of ‘take the place of’. I love my rigid bike and it’s only on 2.4s, it’s a Jones so arguably the most capable rigid over the tech but a 3″ or even 4″ front wouldn’t make it handle some trails (at the speed+control a reasonably capable rider can manage) in the way a similar bike with a 120mm fork and that 2.4 tyre can. The Jones fork / front end design does throw a spanner in the comparisons as it’s a different level of control at times but straight-lining or cornering over rough, techy ground at speed is where suspension still wins. Even more so compared to a normal rigid fork.

    I think on a 26″ bike with a 120mm fork and 2.4″ tyre I’d still outrun what I could do on the 29×3″ fronted rigid down a Welsh hillside, pretty easily. I like the ride of a rigid bike and I’m happy with the compromise wherever I ride but don’t think it’d be an ‘equivalent’. It’s just different in a way that makes it a viable alternative as long as speed and control over rocky chatter isn’t a priority.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Cheers Jameso that was sort of the comparison I was after.

    I had eliminated truss forks from consideration purely on cost (vs a ‘normal’ rigid) so it is a simple 29er with 4-5″ suspension fork Vs 29+ with a rigid fork debate.

    I think for me that a bouncy fork might be a better all round option…

    DrP
    Full Member

    I don’t think the OP has your budget JC

    Or access to gear/brake/other cables 😉

    For what it’s worth, I think a Honzo (or that ilk of bike) would be rubbish with a rigid fork.
    That’s not to say rigid is rubbish – I’ve a rigid scandal SS.
    But the other comparison would be a road bike with 140mm pikes…. wrong bike/fork combo.

    DrP

    dis40
    Free Member

    Have ridden both, 29+ is fine for smooth/gravel baths, not much difference between the two. When it gets bumpier I find sus fork enables me to go a bit quicker (not that much but noticeable difference). The big difference I found is you do not get as fatigue with the sus fork.

    So it really depends what your after, if you want to go a bit quicker and not fatigue so much then sus fork, if not bothered by that then Plus tires can be great fun.

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    A rigid bike is still a rigid bike, no matter what size the tyres are. THIS IS A GOOD THING 😉 .

    I’ve never had the fatigue problems that some complain of, even after a day at a trail centre – through this may be something to do with the Jones Ti Spaceframe?

    I tried 29+ up front, but in the end I prefer a full 4.8″ up front 😀

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    I have a rigid titanium 29+ – you’ll probably be disappointed if you expect one to feel like a bike with suspension forks, but if you enjoy exploring trails and blasting singletrack, it really is a very capable and stable format – I can frequently just ‘let it go’ on descents knowing that there’s nothing that’ll upset it.

    MostlyBalanced
    Free Member

    fifeandy (2nd post) has hit it on the head.
    Remember soft-tails? Those frames with an inch and half of travel and no pivots. That’s pretty much what plus gives you but with more grip.
    29+ wheels are BIG so don’t discount the smaller sizes if you value agility. I went 26+ on my Surly this year and found it loads smoother than my conventional width 29er.

    Gee76
    Free Member

    Not had chance to try my wife’s (my stealth) 29+ bike as yet but I’ll let ya know.

    I’m fairly committed though as I bought some carbon rims for it regardless so I have some Mulefut 29+ wheels for Sale if interested tho? :o)

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    26″ rigid is harsh

    But with 26+ at the front, it’s like having a suspension fork!

    I’ve got a 3″ knard on a Hugo on the front of my rigid 26er. Bit of extra cush, diameter and maybe bit of extra weight works very nicely – it’s calmed the steering down a bit from razor sharp. It’s not slow downhill compared to my hardtail and the people I ride with, which could mean my trails are very smooth, I’m too slow to need suspension, and/or the people I ride with are too slow to need suspension. Or all 3.

    Done some big rides on it, and not felt beaten up. Carbon swept back bars and ESI grips might help, as might any or all of the points above.

    I’d post a pic, but I got told off for oversharing last time I did that! 🙂

    Edit: as per dovebiker, really.

    bikesian65
    Free Member

    Firestarter

    I would recommend the 2.8×27.5 rear to go with the fat front as thats what I have on my Jones – good combination and does help to smooth out the trail ( and it matches the outside diameters of both wheels)

    greatbeardedone
    Free Member

    From a previous post, I’ve been thinking along the same lines…room for a sub 3 inch wide tyre between my surly 29er fork without any further mods.

    I found some 2.4″ 29er tyres on crc for under a tenner (for the rear wheel)

    And I’m hoping to find a 2.8″ for the front.

    I’m guessing that it should be super fast on road, given the lack of rolling resistance.

    deepwat3r
    Free Member

    Last year I converted my aluminum Santa Cruz Highball to the kind of build you’re contemplating. Swapped the sus fork for a Carver carbon rigid, 50mm front rim, 3″ tire. Put a 2.35″ tire on the rear. Got the total weight down to 23 lbs.

    As for the riding experience, it climbs like a dream and still feels fairly agile. I run the front tire at 12-15psi and for smooth or moderately bumpy singletrack it’s pretty effective at smoothing out the chatter. Not quite as effective as a 100mm suspension but if I want to do drops or plow through rock gardens at speed I take the other bike 🙂

    Overall I like what I ended up with, but in hindsight I wish I’d just left the Highball alone and put the $$ towards buying a 27+ frame.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    See I said I wasn’t going to bother with 27.5/27+ but then a week or so of looking at hardtails of all sorts has got me reassessing that initial idea.

    The bird zero TR has grown on me, and is nothing like my original thoughts, I am flip flopping and this is not good… I need to try some demos this summer to nail down exactly what I want from my next HT…

Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)

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