1-cross spoke pattern: Doable or certain death?

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1-cross spoke pattern: Doable or certain death?

30 posts & 17 voices | Started 7 months ago by Elfinsafety | Latest reply from BluePalomino

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Elfinsafety - Member

Right. Got a 7-speed Nexus hub what I pinched from the workshop of a shop I used to work in (don't worry, it was due to be thrown out anyway so I nabbed it and fixed it). Got a 700c rim. Would make a good geared wheel for me town bike.

Problem is, I've not got the right length spokes for a 3 cross pattern. In fact, all I've got are ones which would make a 1-cross spoked wheel. No I'm not going out to spend thirty quid on a set of spokes I'm too skint and tight to do something so silly; besides, none of the bits are in the best nick anyway. Thought it would make an interesting 'salvation' project.

Will a 1-cross pattern work ok? Will it be strong enough for general urban pootling dities?

Any thoughts/experiences?

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

spokes don't cost £30..

Posted 7 months ago #
69er - Member

First thing I'd do is use a different bike shop....

Yes is doable, no you won't die. However, the wheel will not have very good lateral stiffness.

There's a reason 3 cross is used on most builds. Try 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt, he's very good at explaining this stuff.

Posted 7 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

theoretically fine as there is not much difference in stiffness from different spoke patterns.

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

spokes don't cost £30..

Well, near e-bloody-nuff they do!

Sides, I need 284mm spokes to make a 3-cross wheel, and that's not a popular size I don't think. Usually only 260-ish and 290-ish lengths for standard ATB and road wheels. I have the required number of 262mm spokes for the 1-cross pattern, you see.

Can't really find out much about strength with a 1-cross pattern, just that the wheel will be a bit stiffer, but not by all that much.

Posted 7 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

http://www.astounding.org.uk/ian/wheel/patterns.html

I dont know what it means either

Posted 7 months ago #
69er - Member

Elfinsafety - Member

spokes don't cost £30..

Well, near e-bloody-nuff they do!

Sides, I need 284mm spokes to make a 3-cross wheel, and that's not a popular size I don't think. Usually only 260-ish and 290-ish lengths for standard ATB and road wheels. I have the required number of 262mm spokes for the 1-cross pattern, you see.

Can't really find out much about strength with a 1-cross pattern, just that the wheel will be a bit stiffer, but not by all that much.

Incorrect. Read the book!

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

What book?

I don't have a book. Which is why I'm asking on here.

Is the stiffness thing the other way around?

So, do you know something I don't, about a 1-cross pattern? Is it significantly weaker than a 3-cross pattern or something?

Because that's the important bit.

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

spokes don't cost £30..
Well, near e-bloody-nuff they do!

http://www.cyclebasket.com/m9b0s454p0/Components_/Spokes_-_Stainless_Steel_Double_Butted_-_Silver_

36 spokes/nipples plus a slightly high (so better if you get a load) £6 p&p is £13.20

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Yeah, but the object is, to use what I've got. TBH I just want to try the hub out, see if it even still works. If it don't, I don't want to have wasted money on spokes I'm not going to ever be able to use again. Doing it with the materials available gives me an opportunity to see if the hub actually works, and if I actually want it on my bike. It's a bloody weighty beast enough as it is, without bunging a 1600g hub on it.

Posted 7 months ago #
jeffcapeshop - Member

is that really what they weigh? oof

Posted 7 months ago #
STATO - Member

look on ebay, there is someone fogging 32/36 DT spokes in that length for £10.

Posted 7 months ago #
69er - Member

If you cross the spoks less you have to tension them more to try and achieve the same stiffness. So you get greater loads on you flanges (great word) and because the effect of interweaving the spokes is lost , so is torsional stiffness.

For hack bike it wont matter much, and it will look shite. I wouldn't use it for sprint training either

This book:

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Oh ffs...

Forget it. I'll just bloody build it and then if it works, I'll get some new spokes and bung it on a better rim.

Posted 7 months ago #
69er - Member

You did ask on a public forum, ffs. If you want to borrow the book sometime I'd be more than happy to lend it to you...if you're still alive

Posted 7 months ago #
Edric 64 - Member

spokes don't cost £30..

Less than a quid each is good for dt ,sapim are cheaper though

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

No, I meant about folk not bothering to read what I posted, and continuing to bang on about spokes costing only x or y or whatever.

Not going to bother now throwing it all in bin there I hope you're happy.

Posted 7 months ago #
aP - Member

TBH galvanised spokes would be good enough for elfin...
I think that bizarre page is looking at the wrong parameters - rather than lateral stiffness it should be about torsional stiffness as that's what really matters particularly for a rear wheel.
Oh, look what I found

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

I'm too confused and upset by it all now.

Posted 7 months ago #
hilldodger - Member

Invoke the spirit of cynic-al and just build it, remembering to post video of gnarly post-bodge kerb hop

Posted 7 months ago #
toys19 - Member

Posted 7 months ago #
walleater - Member

Yeah torsional stiffness is the issue. The hub will try and twist forward under pedalling loads. This is why you can get away with radially spoked NDS, but the drive side should really be 3 cross.

Posted 7 months ago #
TheBrick - Member

No I'm not going out to spend thirty quid on a set of spokes

where the **** do you buy your spokes from!!

Posted 7 months ago #
simondbarnes - Member

Give it a go. What's the worst that could happen?

Posted 7 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Fred - give it a go - I doubt many have done it. I suspect it might flex a bit/FAIL in time.

walleater - Member
Yeah torsional stiffness is the issue. The hub will try and twist forward under pedalling loads. This is why you can get away with radially spoked NDS, but the drive side should really be 3 cross.

Not quite - early ksyriums were radial on the DS. It seems as long as one side is crossed and under sufficient tension, it's OK.

Posted 7 months ago #
clubber - Member

it'll be fine. I probably weigh two of you and have ridden a 1x wheel when that.was what I.had. might not last forever but what does?

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Yeah I'll build it up see if t works or nor. TBH, I can't imagine I'm going to be putting the kind of forces through the wheel that Chris Hoy would, and anyway, changing gear on a Nexus is something that you have to ease off on the pedals to do, in't it? So, shoon't be a problem.

where the **** do you buy your spokes from!!

Ok so I was exagerating a bit, jeeze!

No point in spending money if it's buggered, is there? And be left with a load of weird length useless spokes. As it is, I won't even buy a proper shifter for it until I've ascertained that it works. What's the point?

(Wonders if old Exage 7-speed thumb shifter might work...)

Posted 7 months ago #
Reluctant - Member

I'm in the "do it" camp on this one.
A 1 x wheel will be stiffer vertically, but have less strength laterally, but with such a large flange hub, it's much less of an issue than with a "standard" hub. If you decide against 1x, do two cross instead. This works better than 3x with a big hub like Nexus, as the spokes enter the nipples at a less extreme angle.Nexus, built 3x often snap spokes at the nipple end. Big flange+short spokes+ 1 cross should work well enough for a street bike.

Posted 7 months ago #
steve_b77 - Member

Well I never, a sensible answer!!

Posted 7 months ago #
BluePalomino - Member

I concur for the 'do it' side. Ignore the Robots. By coincidence i just built a 700c 1-cross front wheel. I would have built it radial but the spokes it had were a bit too long My only decision is whether i should have the spokes runing 'inny' or 'outy'. I went for 'inny' like this example-
http://www.lfgss.com/attachments/1308d1217677358-cimg0083.jpg

Posted 7 months ago #

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