Quite enjoyed the PACK ride last night but i wont be joining another 1 lap event again, will stick to workouts and timed events. The mrs was not happy with the 10 minute wait at the top of leith hill (why the **** are you not pedaling, come on crack on and get finished…her words).

Think I’m stuck between top end of catD and low end of catC, always end up in the lead group of these PACK events and well ahead of the main group but catC events always at the back 🙁

Plan 1 – No events for 4 weeks and gonna see what the 4wk FTP booster plan does, last nights ride increased my FTP from 190 -> 194 so i guess that’s something 🙂

Plan 2 – Aim is for 250-300ftp at 78-70kg. Probably a long shot! But i need goals

Plus lost almost 3-4 kg since i started zwifting, probably water weight but its something to take home 🙂

Yesterday was my first proper chance of being tested on the road for a long quickish day since starting zwift.

The pace went out where i’d normally be fighting to hold a wheel but instead I was feeling fresh and top end of zone 2. Then on to the climbs, I rode these at a similar pace to how I would normally but my recovery was so much quicker. I know I’ve seen numbers increasing on screen but amazed how much difference they make IRL.

I think I’ll jump into TDZ tonight in D cat just as a couple of hours to gently spin some very heavy legs

Overtook the Pack that Alex was probably a part of, 616 riders they were saying. Not sure I see the appeal, they were all being told to ride at <2w/kg up the hill, then to wait at the top. Waiting for 600 riders surely takes a very long time, to ride on slowly?

y with the 10 minute wait at the top of leith hil

Yeah that was bizarre. I did a ZT group ride the other night with about 40 riders and it was brilliant. Got into the groove, slowed a couple of times to let the sweeps bring a few back but was a decent work out at a regular pace which is what I just need to do not having done this stuff before.

Last night tho 600+ riders, just too big, too many stragglers and being told not to have a crack at the hills which are the bits I might be better at. IT was a sub 2w/kg ride tho but after Box hill I just did a runner (pedaller?)

I will do some more group rides with the ZT crew but won’t bother with a massive pack ride again. Stopping pedalling I just got cold and bored.

I’m away most of this week but will get a ride in Weds. Hopefully it’s Watopia. I might just go for the hilly lap and see how I get on.

Yesterday was my first proper chance of being tested on the road for a long quickish day since starting zwift.

The pace went out where i’d normally be fighting to hold a wheel but instead I was feeling fresh and top end of zone 2. Then on to the climbs, I rode these at a similar pace to how I would normally but my recovery was so much quicker. I know I’ve seen numbers increasing on screen but amazed how much difference they make IRL.

Always excellent to hear of people improving in the real world 🙂 Nice one.

Plus lost almost 3-4 kg since i started zwifting,

Great work 🙂 keep going !

Yes, I thought >600 was far too big to realistically expect it to stay together. There was some chatter going on, like 2-3 messages a minute pr so, but amid 600 riders that’s nothing, and many of them were “about to get level 17 bitches” and stuff, not actual conversation. Is there a Discord chat or something? I genuinely don’t understand the appeal, there’s no social aspect without interaction?

Don’t blame you not wanting to wait 10+ minutes, that’s just mad. Can you turn around and ride back down the hill to the back of the pack and then ride back up? Or can you not turn around if you’re in an ‘event’? I’ve only done races, and never dared try it!

WKG London Pretzel race Saturday morning on what’s probably my least favourite course I’ve raced on Zwift!

Got in the front bunch from the start but up Northumberland Av. 5km in I just missed a break of 5 A’s I couldn’t get across so decided to drop back to the main B pack and try to recover whilst they pulled out over a minute lead.

35km in at the bottom of Fox hill people start attacking so I hit the feather powerup and before I know it I’m at the front of the group with a couple of seconds lead. I bury myself to the top in a PB of 6:28. My leads now nearly a minute and luckily for me the chasers are all spread out so no bunch working to catch me. A painful solo TT effort for the last 20km including nearly cramping up the escalators and I made it home with a 1:22 lead for my first B cat win.

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=38032

Good effort. Long TT at the end of a race that!

That’s a rather fantastic performance that…. Well done indeedy !

Can you turn around and ride back down the hill to the back of the pack and then ride back up? Or can you not turn around if you’re in an ‘event’? I’ve only done races, and never dared try it!

You can turn around yes, quite a lot of the sweepers do it. i had no intention of planting a u-turn and doing leith hill again 😛 although in retrospect, the time i was waiting i could have done it but would sure have been pooped for the rest of the ride, it would have given me another boost to my tron bike.

There was some chatter going on, like 2-3 messages a minute pr so, but amid 600 riders that’s nothing, and many of them were “about to get level 17 bitches” and stuff, not actual conversation. Is there a Discord chat or something? I genuinely don’t understand the appeal, there’s no social aspect without interaction?

I don’t mind it for a recovery-style ride, at least it gives you a pace to aim for and stops you riding too hard! I did listen on the discord chat for one ride, only a handful on there & bantz was minimal (although slightly better I guess than the text chat). Re. the social side, they have a FB page, maybe they communicate on there more so than actually on the rides? Dunno really. They must be doing something though to get so many riders on board!

Yeah, definitely, I thought I must be missing something, because outwardly it seemed to be a monstrous group of people riding along steadily in silence.

I happened to be passing going up Leith Hill, and had a few jump on my wheel (I was only doing 3.5w/kg or so, but quicker than their ‘limit’), so it’s not like they were all maxed out.

I can definitely see the appeal of a 50 rider bunch or so at a reasonable pace. I’ll have to try one of these rides sometime!

Cracking effort there Jamie, looks like you’d be holding your own in cat A easy enough with that power. not sure i fancy a 20km TT though 😀

I always seem to be missing a tiny bit right at the top of the climbs to make the breakaway for the descent, be that the kicker at the top of box hill after the arch or the top of the first hill on R2R/Jungle. The A’s get split and i’m almost always a good way ahead of the chase group but not strong enough to hold on to the tail of the leaders.

I didn’t think about turning around. Shame as I wouldn’t have minded having another crack at it. Quite a few were pushing out more than the sub 2. Can’t blame the leader/sweepers – it’s just too big a group / too differentiated to manage.

There is a discord channel. It’s a bit different to what my mates and I talk about on MTB rides. I didn’t bother tuning in this time. FB pages are popular as well.

I really don’t like racing at all (virtual or real world) so the ZF group ride really suits me. That hour went pretty quick.

Fair play to the likes of @jamie and others up there. Clearly far more committed than I’ll ever be!

I still struggle with the logic of many of the rides/riders on social/group rides.

“This is a 2.0w/kg ride…..”

Then i’m sitting about 30 riders in pushing 2.5w/kg on the flat to hold the bunch, all around me is 2.8/2.6/2.9, so i ease off to 2.0 and suddenly you’re left for dead.

Why do people enter group rides and then not hold anything like the advertised pace ? I understand there’s a certain amount of disparity with Zwift and W/KG, W, etc… but really…

Yeah ^^ that 😉

Then i’m sitting about 30 riders in pushing 2.5w/kg on the flat to hold the bunch, all around me is 2.8/2.6/2.9, so i ease off to 2.0 and suddenly you’re left for dead.”

Isn’t that just group mentality, when the competitiveness kicks in etc riders with egos to stroke, there is always several groups that storm ahead. Isn’t there a rubber banding function on rides which doesn’t let this happen?

If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times but one more wont hurt-

W/KG DOES NOT HOLD PEOPLE TOGETHER ON THE FLAT!!!!!!!!

In isolation, it’s a flawed metric being used completey inappropriately- there’s not even a pace component to it!!

Quite why it’s been adopted the way it has I have no idea.

Unless every rider on the groupride weighs the same, it’s completely useless.

Only been doing Zwift a week, but I agree, W/Kg is only a decent ballpark for hill climbs.

Maybe they should group riders by FTP, or for rookies, place them in a group according to their average power in the race.

A rough lap time or average speed would be the best options. And then a bit of trial and error. But at least the metric would apply across ALL grouprides.

I once did a 3w/kg ride with Monica Cross Holmes leading. It was painfully slow for me- like low Z2. Because she weighs nothing!
Likewise, I’ve done a 2.5 with some beast of a guy leading it and it was crazy hard- over Threshold at the time.

It’s rubbish!

Whilst i get that…. clearly if you’ve entered a ride advertised as 2.0 then you shouldn’t be seeing 2.8-3.0 on your power, even if we take into account some bit of correction for weight etc, it’s clearly bonkers if the group are flying along at 3….

I’m not saying it’s perfect… but if implemented even slightly correctly it shouldn’t be THAT far off..

But if people are trying to match w/kg then they will constantly be chasing in circles as the smaller riders try and catch the bigger riders etc etc
They have no idea how fast to go so they end up building momentum faster and faster as the egos and the confusion sets in.
It literally gives zero guidance about how fast to pace.

You can’t tell people off for doing 3.0 on a 2.0 group ride because that could literally be the only way they could keep up depending on their relative weights.

By setting an objective guideline people know if they are exceeding it or not. When I used to be a ride leader for some ACF rides, we used to use a speed for the flats and a w/kg limit for the hills. Still not great but loads better than a blanket w/kg.

Anyone fancy the 16:05 WBR 4 lap classique then today ?

I’m on a fasting day so not expecting miracles, but after a rest day yesterday i quite fancy a bit of pain 🙂

You can’t tell people off for doing 3.0 on a 2.0 group ride because that could literally be the only way they could keep up depending on their relative weights.

You can if they’re 1min ahead of the ride leader after the first 15 mins of the ride ? 🙂

it should also be a bit more obvious on the screen, from memory its only next to your name in the sidebar. on a laptop thats kind of hard to see.

By setting an objective guideline people know if they are exceeding it or not. When I used to be a ride leader for some ACF rides, we used to use a speed for the flats and a w/kg limit for the hills. Still not great but loads better than a blanket w/kg.

I’ve never bothered with a group ride on Zwift, but wouldn’t it make more sense to have the ride leader simply set the correct pace for the type of ride and stay behind them? That’s pretty much what you’d do in a real world ride rather than people messing about with watt per kilo metrics. Isn’t it just common sense, like you’d do with a club ride? If people want to disappear off the front, then that’s their business and they can choose to wait up for the main bunch or not.

I’m not a very sociable rider in real life where you can actually see and talk to people properly, so the concept of group virtual rides doesn’t really do much for me. I’d rather hoon round picking petty virtual squabbles with people for entertainment. People are hilariously bonkers, just like in real life I guess, but the bit where you can see their power output and sometimes HR makes it even more bizarre.

Anyway…

Yeah I agree. The most important thing a successful group ride needs is a desire to actually ride together.

But they are advertised in advance so some kind of objective measure is required. Just not w/kg 😉

Weeksy- you can ride off the front at advertised ‘pace’. When Monica leads ZSUN, this used to happen to me quite often. I’d do a couple of weeks with Stew leading and go the next week to find it ZZZzzzzz and do ride off with a couple of others at the pace we’d done the previous two weeks.

Question is, why does it bother people?? If someone had committed their 1hour slot for a workout that day to a group ride advertised by some BS metric and it ends up being too slow, why should they waste time quitting and restarting? Just let them go…….

Yay not quite last and managed to up my FTP by 2w, granted it’s still only 167 but it’s an improvement.

The racing really is a good motivator, having people about you at roughly the same fitness level does make you push on to stay with them where as myself I’d give up and back off

Congratulations and damn well done mate!

Agree re the group rides. It is really trial and error to find one that suits you. If they insist on sticking with W/kg then they should also give the weight of the leader so you can judge what to expect.

Alternatively an average speed would be a good indicator.

The one thing I like about group rides is I can practice staying in a bunch which I am still pretty rubbish at.

not sure i fancy a 20km TT though

I immediately regretted it. An FTP test with Box Hill thrown in!

looks like you’d be holding your own in cat A easy enough with that power.

Hmmm never quite managed 4w/kg. I like my eat crap and un-structured training lifestyle too much to improve anymore.

On the subject of average speed group rides. The pack rides led by Steve Clogg, he messages out the speed (IIRC it’s 38kmph on the flat) and manages to keep the bunch together.

Wife came home with a set of scales tonight. I’m actually 8.5 kgs heavier than I thought. Xmas is obviously sitting heavy.
I have some work to do now. 😳
Does this mean i’ve been weight doping?

Does this mean i’ve been weight doping?

On the flat, probably…. But no more or less than some/many.

I sometimes laugh… I was clicking the other week when racing and some guy was at 3.8w/kg and 94bpm heart rate…. LOL… He’d win the sodding tour if he could manage that !

I was going on last night for a spin round London as my legs were still achy from 7 days straight riding last week, but then i saw the 20.05 kiss race & thought i’d give it ago as i haven’t done one since October i think

Mistake 1 – Had a big tea 1 hour before.
Mistake 2 – My legs really were tired.
Mistake 3 – 4 minute warmup.
Mistake 4 – Trying to hang with lead group & breathing so hard i nearly inhaled my fan.

Still, its all experience.

Trying to hang with lead group & breathing so hard i nearly inhaled my fan.

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Double winner today. I won the mgcc pursuit ride today (B group) although i have been filtered out due to no hr but i know the race organiser who is looking in to that as its never a requirement. I did a small 14 mile warm up on Surrey Hills beforehand!!! I chose a different tactic today, rather than go up box hill at full tilt and then much slower on lap 2 i decided a fast even tempo for both laps. It worked, i did first lap in 7:20 and next lap in 7:32, i was first up on both laps and ended up winning the race by 7 secs although i spent a lot of the race on my own as i dropped everyone. Next trophy was the TRON “look at me bike” which i got on the first box hill lap and well ahead of schedule. Nothing else to aim for now so i can stop doing all the hilly routes as a warm up thank god.

Awesome! Well done 🙂

You’re crazy!

Still FB zone for me. Felt great out there, ended up with a 230w average and a HR average of 137. So was just cruising along really.

Scales are dead on 15st 0 currently so past 4-5 have been mostly eating days and I’m hoping when the fasting days kick in fully by Thurs I’ll be firmly in the 14s.

Nice one weeksy, weight heading down and cycling prowess heading up, thats the way to do it.

Both my cadence and HR have been acting up lately which makes laughable reading. In todays race my average cadence was 123rpm with a max of 185, i knew i was a spinner but thats a bit much. Race the other day in which stayed with the A group for 3 full laps out of 4 had my avg hr as 65bpm, i can assure you it was more like 65bp second!

Think I might have just won C in the WBR one lapper. I like short flat races like that, they suit my disposition.

I’m still suffering from a diet related lack of power so entered the CVR B race tonight, will see how it goes!