Just sorting through post yesterday. Looks like a letter was received whilst we were away, and somehow got ‘filed’ in the post tray. Fairly innocuous brown envelope. Wife opened it and it’s a NIP for doing 48 in a 40 on a dual carriageway in Leeds.

We were in North Wales.  It’s my son driving the Aygo.

Now, the letter is over 4 months old, early December, we’ve had no reminders since. Had I best get onto them ASAP as I don’t want a failure to respond on me (clean licence since passing my test).

I’m aware it can take six months to process. Do I either wait for a reminder or get onto them ASAP.

PS and yes my son does need to slow down.

Get on to them asap and explain the circumstances but also check that there are no more letters.

He would normally be offered a speed awareness course for a first offence but that may no longer be an option due to time since issue.

Similar happened to me a few years back.

Moved house and the letter went to an empty house that was on the market.

I phoned them up and they were very laid back about it. Paid a fine and took the points.

TBH if it happened again I would ignore it and take the chance. After all, they have no proof of delivery.

Going to phone and apologise. Son will most likely get points (already on 4 from a few years back), as he has done a speed awareness before.

I’m the registered keeper.

If that’s the third time he has been caught speeding think long and hard about letting him drive a car that you own and insure.

After all, they have no proof of delivery.

I could be wrong but I don’t believe they need proof of delivery.

Parental advice. LoLZ

Second time, other was a due care. I know. Needs a car for work but his is modified and not suitable. We bought this to enable him to get to work as his had died – it spends more time off the road as it’s used as a track car.

He also has ADHD so really doesn’t get the consequences. I wasn’t happy last night, I tell ye.

He literally drives us mad.

“I could be wrong but I don’t believe they need proof of delivery.”

Maybe. But IME the letter had sent to 3 months earlier, there was absolutely no follow up and the person I spoke to didn’t seem at all bothered.

If they hadn’t chased it up after 3 months. I wonder when they would of actually bothered?

He also has ADHD so really doesn’t get the consequences. I wasn’t happy last night, I tell ye.

The extra premium on his insurance for having 7 points on his licence might help (x2 for his car + Aygo)

All AYGO models are powered by a 1.0 VVT-i three-cylinder unit with 68bhp and 95Nm of torque –

that means a 0-62mph time of 14.2 seconds and a top speed of 99mph

It’s not like he can say, ‘i didn’t realise I was going that fast!’

he must have really been trying hard for quite some time to get to 48mph!

he must have really been trying hard for quite some time to get to 48mph!

That’s just nonsense. Any car can easily cruise up and over the speed limit, especially when that limit is just a 40.

“After all, they have no proof of delivery.

I could be wrong but I don’t believe they need proof of delivery.”

I think this is right, also applies to private parking notices, proof of postage is enough and it’s assumed delivered 2 days later.

A colleague picked up a speeding ticket in the company van, he had recently moved and the company gave his old address. Would have been 3 points or maybe speed awareness, dunno. I was following him when he got the ticket (obviously not as fast).
Ended up being referred to court and convicted in his absence.
6 points.
so youngun could end up walking, depending on how snowed under the courts are and current policy I guess.

The difference could also be the company had named the driver, albeit the wrong address.

I have an aygo, if I got caught at 48 I would frame the ticket as a badge of honour.  Actually, its pretty quick off the mark but any hill or headwind, you have to change down.  Faultless car though, and holding its value as tax free.

By the looks of things, it just needs to be posted – no proof of delivery needed. Better put on my best apologising voice and call them tomorrow and register the details on line (letter is at home).  TBH, god knows when it arrived as there have been postal strikes, and I don’t remember seeing the letter. So easy for it to be picked up and put in the ‘basket’ near the front door.

TBH if it happened again I would ignore it and take the chance. After all, they have no proof of delivery.

That is not a good defence strategy!  They don’t need to prove delivery, you need to prove they didn’t – otherwise they can assume delivered if they posted it correctly.  I’d need to double check but I think that is actually establish on the balance of probabilities that you did not get it – not simple suggest there is doubt whether you got it.  I don’t read my post, or I only open letters that look important definitely will not wash.

Failing to comply with a s172 notice results in the keeper getting 6 points a hefty fine and insurance companies assuming you are dodgy as hell for 4 years…    if you are ballsy enough to actually stand on oath and say you never got the letter, and in anyway there is proof that you did (like you posted about it on the internet) – they will throw perjury/perverting the course of justice charges into the mix.  All the more stupid if you weren’t the driver.

He also has ADHD so really doesn’t get the consequences.

Is he medicated ?

If so -he must take the meds to be legal to drive.

(source: CAMHS pharmacist to my son)

Not medicated, going through the long process of referral. He is T1, but he has had ADHD traits for a long time, even his friends have pointed it out, but diagnosis as an adult is a long process. He does drive alot for work and ‘pleasure’ and was a bit stupid when 19, and got his 4 points, then caught going 36 in a 30. He’s been caught again going a little too quick, but he’s 23 now.

I keep an eye on the post as he’s had a couple of parking fines where he’s slightly overstayed the parking, and ANPR equipped car parks aren’t ‘forgiving’ – he’s shocking at time keeping. Just annoyed I’ve missed the original letter. I believe they don’t have to send out reminders.

The West  Yorkshire Police web site say they may or may not prosecute if you receive a NIP – so who knows, they may have decided not to prosecute, but I can’t take that risk now we’ve seen the NIP. Luckily it wasn’t binned.

When you receive a NIP it doesn’t automatically mean that you are going to face prosecution, it is a warning that you may face prosecution.

To Quote their web page:-

When you receive a NIP it doesn’t automatically mean that you are going to face prosecution, it is a warning that you may face prosecution.

The NIP must be served on the driver or registered keeper within 14 days of the offence otherwise the offence cannot proceed at court. If the details of the driver are not known, then it is sent to the registered keeper. In either case, so long as it arrives at the relevant address within the time limit the notice is valid.

Points are only valid for 3 years, so those others should be cleared by now.

Regards ignoring it, that is just what I would do if it happened again as they seemed almost disinterested and never bothered chasing me.

When it happened to me, I thought I was going to be in a load of trouble and phoned them straight away. They were just like “meh”.

Points are only valid for 3 years, so those others should be cleared by now.

but need declared for 5 (with less impact on the premium after 3)

I thought that depended on the insurer?

I’m sure I chosen certain insurers in the past as they only asked about offenses in the last 3 years. This was a while ago now.

You’re right, but seems like they’ve all gone to 5 these days (although no point in the house so don’t pay that much attention)

What one doesn’t know, it’s an ANPR camera, so is probably triggering loads of NIP’s that fly out the door into people’s post boxes (only when you look – ahem !). You wonder at what ‘margin’ they decide to prosecute out of all the ‘automated warnings’ that go out ?

Pepipoo is the place to ask questions like this

What was the date of the offence, presumably a few days before the letter date? IIRC a NIP isn’t a prosecution, just as it says a ‘notice of intention’ to prosecute. And the CPS generally must prosecute within six months.

However, failing to respond to the NIP can theoretically constitute an offence of failing to provide details, so you’ll have to get onto them and let your son take what’s coming.

Regards ignoring it, that is just what I would do if it happened again as they seemed almost disinterested and never bothered chasing me.

When it happened to me, I thought I was going to be in a load of trouble and phoned them straight away. They were just like “meh”.

yeah civilian processing staff doing hundreds of cases a day, and you call up and are cooperative so they don’t get too excitable (it’s probably a notable event for you, for them you are just one of many calls today).  But ignore it and you will be assumed to be doing it intentionally and they almost invariably prosecute for that.

What one doesn’t know, it’s an ANPR camera, so is probably triggering loads of NIP’s that fly out the door into people’s post boxes (only when you look – ahem !). You wonder at what ‘margin’ they decide to prosecute out of all the ‘automated warnings’ that go out ?

for speeding offences if you get the letter you’ve already crossed the threshold; you can expect to be prosecuted unless they **** up (which is not unheard of – but not good odds).

What was the date of the offence, presumably a few days before the letter date? IIRC a NIP isn’t a prosecution, just as it says a ‘notice of intention’ to prosecute. And the CPS generally must prosecute within six months.

correct, they must start the court proceedings within 6 months of the offence, in England and wales starting proceedings just means lodging the papers with the court – so it can be a few weeks later before they land on your doormat.  S172 offences happen 28days after you get the NIP – so if the speeding is start Jan, NIP served mid Jan, the s172 offence is mid Feb (exact date needs checking).  Then it’s 6 months from then (mid Aug) to lay before the court and probably early Sep before you can start to think you’ve escaped!

However, failing to respond to the NIP can theoretically constitute an offence of failing to provide details, so you’ll have to get onto them and let your son take what’s coming.

there’s no “theoretically” about it – failing to respond to a s172 request is an offence and is regularly prosecuted.  There are lots of bits of the road traffic act where you have to try quite hard to be prosecuted, s172 is not one of them.

one point for op to be aware of – after providing the correct information in writing his son should receive his own s172 request to confirm he was driving.  He then needs to respond to that promptly, there may be sneaky tactics around the timing of that so it’s too late to prosecute for the speeding – but that might mean they don’t show the forgiveness for the Ops error (technically he has committed the offence even if he provides the details now).

So I guess the question is, do you actually gain by responding to it now? Or, to put it a different way, it’s already late enough that it’s not really getting any later, all of the “failing to respond” stuff is already live. But, there may be a possibility that it falls through the cracks, never gets followed up, someone else screws up and in that case, contacting them could actually create problems.

So tactically, do you gain from “found it really late and got in touch” vs “never got it honest”.

Possibly relevant- I got my one driving offence, a speeding ticket, entirely my fault. There was an issue with my licence paperwork which which after we’d gone back and forward, meant I couldn’t do any of the remote pleading or similiar, I was told to go to court. So I did, went to Dundee, got told “wait over there”, waited ages, eventually someone said “why are you still here, court is done for the day”. I’d been told to sit in the big court and should have been in the summary court round the corner.

So I went there, found an official, they checked the records and said “yeah we decided to dismiss your case without further action because you weren’t here”. So instead of the points and a fine I’d have definitely got if I’d actually been in the right place, I got nothing at all. Course, it could equally have gone badly, just not turning up would have been a terrible idea…

@fossy

I believe you can get speed warning units plugged (buried under the dash!) that will sound off an alert every time the car exceeds the units known speed for that road. Very annoying but that’s the point.

They don’t work 100% if a road has changed it’s speed designation and if he is REALLY up for it, he will find it, even if you have it installed right up under the dash, hidden away.

Anyway, just a thought mate. I feel your pain!

On-line response completed (i.e. named him). I’ll also phone and explain I ‘missed’ the notice and am a silly plonker. No reminders, we’ve looked.

All AYGO models are powered by a 1.0 VVT-i three-cylinder unit with 68bhp and 95Nm of torque –

that means a 0-62mph time of 14.2 seconds and a top speed of 99mph

It’s not like he can say, ‘i didn’t realise I was going that fast!’

he must have really been trying hard for quite some time to get to 48mph!

No, he wouldn’t. In any case, if he’s already on a long-ish stretch of road, he’s just got to do an extra 8mph. Exactly how much harder do you imagine he’s got to accelerate to do that extra 8mph, hmmm?
I got a Smart fourtwo to happily get up to a gps indicated 95mph on the M4 uphill section at J18 Bath Tormarton, it wasn’t struggling at all.

I have an aygo, if I got caught at 48 I would frame the ticket as a badge of honour.

I’ve one of the sister models

Agreed Believing you accidentally find your self doing nearly 50 in a 40 without intentional input from the driver in one of these is deluded.

My swedish ex got a ticket when we lived in the UK, dutifully filled in the paperwork and sent it back.

2 weeks later, paper drops through the door “this isn’t a valid driving licence number”, please fill in this new copy of the same piece of paper.

So we filled it in again.

Rinse and repeat a couple more times, including a couple of calls to whoever in Leicester deals with speeding tickets.

They were utterly adamant that ALL european driving licences followed *exactly* the same format so should have the right length of driving licence number.

They gave up after about half a dozen attempts, and the computer saying no, repeatedly.

Never heard anything else (and we didn’t leave the UK for another 3-4 years after that).

They may come in innocuous white envelopes too …. cough.