However, allow me to introduce the Volvo V60 T8 Twin Engined Polestar Engineered

Now, that I quite like.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren’t really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts – probably not that long), or it get’s used up trundling about locally purely on the motors. That said a 2l in a Volvo estate is going to fare better than in a big Range Rover

But – I am going to research and see if real world usage of these proves me wrong and it might well be on the list – especially if the emissions will make it beneficial to buy through the Ltd company (usually not)

That’s true, which is why my looking at XC90 T8 Hybrids got as far as finding out the real world mpg. A 2l petrol in a giant SUV is never going to work once the battery is depleted. 303bhp in that Polestar from ICE alone.

I’m fairly sure that the battery will be kept at a level where (under normal driving) it always has enough power for a burst (how long could you use it for in every day driving? 4 seconds?) – after the electrical range is depleted it’ll just be recharged during braking or taxing the engine when not on full throttle. It may not work on track (due to the ratio of throttle/braking periods) but in normal driving it should be available to release 400bhp nearly all the time.

Get a proper ‘M’ car and thats a proper sports car, will feel a world different to any luke warm BMW

no BMW since maybe the 1st gen z4 has been a “proper sports car” – M cars may drive well, but they’re big, heavy lumps that are seriously compromised to allow for the packaging and comfort that a large saloon car requires. A proper sports car cuts these compromises very differently and drives better as a result. That’s not really relevent here because you can’t get a sports car with the seats & boot of a 3-series estate

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

Now, that I quite like.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren’t really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts – probably not that long), or it get’s used up trundling about locally purely on the motors. That said a 2l in a Volvo estate is going to fare better than in a big Range Rover

But – I am going to research and see if real world usage of these proves me wrong and it might well be on the list – especially if the emissions will make it beneficial to buy through the Ltd company (usually not)

One of the bigwigs at work has a p400e, I was and am dubious but he reckons it works really well and the ICE alone is plenty torquey enough. 🤷‍♂️

Volvo V60 T8

What a horrible drivetrain on otherwise nice car. On snowy roads you don’t know whether it is going to understeer or oversteer, it is possible to force 4WD on but that will eat the EV mileage.

I see what you mean, the roads are always covered in snow round here. I don’t understand people when they say they’re getting a 4WD/SUV “for when it snows” when we have at most around 10 days where snow actually sits on the roads enough to cause problems.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren’t really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts – probably not that long),

well how long do you need 400bhp for? any street use of that power is going to be followed by a period of constant speed or braking.

travelling at a constant 70mph on flat ground uses 35-45bhp, so ample spare power from the 300 petrol horses to top the battery back up.

With modern motors giving high torque from zero and more importantly the software to wrangle it, thats going to be a better performing, and more efficient car than a 3litre turbo or 4litre NA engine producing the same nominal max bhp.

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

I’d disagree. Nearly all the driving I do is either with the kids, or solo is with a bike or a surfboard, as I’m going somewhere to ride my bike or surf. I like a car that’s nice to drive, but there’s no point in having a boxster as I’d never have a reason to drive it, so getting something thats just practical enough to get me and my kit to where I’m going, but still provides the performance and handling I want is the right compromise.

In my case I get away with a GT86, but if I had a longer surfboard or needed 2 people in the car at the same time as kit, something a bit bigger would be required.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

That load of twaddle was almost poetic.

Did it flow from your conciousness, or take a while to compile?

I like a car that’s nice to drive

Then get something like a Merc E class estate – you get out the other end completely relaxed.

I am with Zomg – marketing makes you lust after these are ‘sports cars’ and if you are happy paying big sums of money for an average car that is quick then go ahead. As above I would argue they are worst of both worlds. Trying to be sporty but failing, trying to be comfortable but failing.

In my case I get away with a GT86

If you went to a 335d etc you would immediately wish you had your GT86 back!

That load of twaddle was almost poetic.

kinda right though…

I wanted a fast estate. Looked at Mercedes C class (E was too big), BMW 3 series (not a great boot and Mrs TiRed didn’t like the steering wheel – small hands), and the Volvo V60. I liked the V60 a lot – definite head choice, nothing to dislike except the screen touch controls and high centre console. But in the end went for a Macan V6 diesel. Same engine as stepfather’s Jaguar. And I didn’t want/need a Diesel engine, and I definitely didn’t want another SUV! It’s great drive. Nicer than the Volvo, and up with the BMW.

Last car was an M520d – it was bloody lovely to drive, incredibly relaxing and very comfortable. Never felt like it was a sports car though it was adequately quick and would take a bike in the back no problem if you took the front wheel off.  It was massive though and weighted the best part of 2 tonnes.   I can see why you’d have a quick estate rather than something quick and another family wagon, especially if space or funds are tight.

Why TF is everyone so damn judgemental on this site when it comes to car choice?

If we’re now onto sharing our individual perversions for slightly obscure fast estate PHEVs, I’m going to publicly admit to my unhealthy desire to own a Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered.  Yes please.

Why TF is everyone so damn judgemental on this site when it comes to car choice?

I agree, but…

M520d

No such thing!

I’d just like to say that I couldn’t afford the Audi or BMW I probably really wanted. But I’ve ended up with a Golf R Estate which I think is just wonderful. I also had a GTD estate, but I really much prefer the petrol to the diesel. The diesel was much more economical of course. But I still smile almost every single time I look at, sit in, or hear my R start up.

If we’re now onto sharing our individual perversions for slightly obscure fast estate PHEVs, I’m going to publicly admit to my unhealthy desire to own a Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered

I like that too, but….

Auto Express long term review

Mileage: 5,704
Economy: 35.2mpg

What’s the point, apart from reps getting a low BIK?

Regarding the phev, when I bought my Cupra (300hp petrol) I was given a Cupra Phev for 3 days while mine was being prepped. I really didn’t enjoy it, 245hp but then it felt like it dropped to 140 or something. That was a good mix of town and motorway journey.

Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered

Can I be the first to say “Meh”?

People dont use PHEV’s properly. Autoexpress clearly arent driving that 508 correctly and never charge it up.

I have a mazda CX60 PHEV (not the OP’s target car) it gets over 60mpg and does loads and loads of long journeys. This week over 1000 motorway miles, last week 600 and it is a 2.5 petrol.

As for performance estates surely an oxymoron!get a nice car sure, but dont bother with the massive engine, estates handle like crap compared to priper performance cars

zomg
Full Member

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

LMAO you’re entitled to your opinion but what a big old load of arse that is.

As for performance estates surely an oxymoron!get a nice car sure, but dont bother with the massive engine, estates handle like crap compared to priper performance cars

Again, you’re entitled to your opinion but do you really think you’d drive a Taycan CT and tell me they handle like crap then? Or a D3 S Touring? Or an M3/M5 Touring? Or an RS6 Avant? Or an C63 wagon? Or an Evo IX wagon?

Come on. An Elise is not the only way to have a performance car.

I love my performance cars, but to be fair my Merc AMG GLC 43 handled like a dog. Nice place to be, straight line was nice. Long steady journeys were nice, but clattered and jarred over every piece of rough road. From a driving perspective I much prefer the drive from my smaller lighter Cupra.

I completely get why people want and need sporty estates…….I’ve just ordered another fast SUV (Audi this time), but if I could I’d rather stick with the Cupra.

I previously had an E91 335d and it was amazing (with the obligatory remap) and returned reasonable economy. I’ve not driven more modern BMW diesel but my wife’s F31 340i handles significantly better than the E91 did, while also having better ride quality too (adaptive dampers set to soft might help here).  I’d imagine a diesel version would be great too.

As for the naysayers for fast estate cars, if you want to have the other attributes of a premium car (comfort, low noise, good seats etc), a fast model can actually make sense financially. If you drive under 10k miles a year, the fuel cost is low, but the depreciation is much lower than a regular model, so it evens out if you keep the car for a long time. So you can have the performance for little extra cost. Also it can be easier to find a well spec’ed and we’ll looked after used fast estate than a regular model.

An estate won’t handle noticeably differently to any other body style on the same platform, so a 340m diesel estate will handle just the same as a 440i coupe, and the M3 estate will handle just like the M4 coupe. None of them will handle like a boxster, gt86 or Elise, but that’s not because of the body style, it’s because they’re massive heavy lumps

I disagree on that point.  With watches, there are watches that are feats of minature engineering excellence which should be celebrated as such.  Sure, a Casio F series will tell you the time for about £20, but doesn’t have the engineering excellence of other watches.

The guy who started Elliot Brown explained watches to me as male jewellery. Most men don’t wear any other form of self-adornment, so a nice watch fits into that ‘need’ / want. Obviously f you genuinely get enthused about the insides of watches, that’s also an explanation or maybe a rationalisation in the strict sense. You decide.

I’d venture that a lot of top-end cars are the same. Jewellery on a very large scale – ‘look at me, I can afford a really big, fast, expensive car. I have exquisite taste and lots of money and drive really fast, sorry enjoy ‘spirited driving’…. etc.’ And that’s before you factor in all the Freudian stuff.

I used to ride very, very fast motorcycles and, in honesty, find fast cars underwhelming. Still knocking around in a beaten-up Mk2 Golf GTi and wearing a beaten-up Elliot Brown Canford watch. Can’t say a fast diesel estate is an itch I’d ever contemplate scratching, if I did, I’d probably seek medical advice. YMMV.

And that’s before you factor in all the Freudian stuff.

If Freud were alive today he’d be able to double his contribution to psychonalysis just through study of the people obsessed with fast car:small willy correlation.

Or more politely put, ‘status compensation through conspicuous consumption.’

However, allow me to introduce the Volvo V60 T8 Twin Engined Polestar Engineered

I hadn’t realised the sheer complexity of that engine.
2.0l 4-cylinder petrol engine, with turbocharger AND supercharger, with a c50hp electric motor between that and the gearbox and another c90hp motor in the Haldex transmission. That’s a LOT of parts to go wrong…

Auto Express long term review

Mileage: 5,704
Economy: 35.2mpg

What’s the point, apart from reps getting a low BIK?

This is probably my biggest complaint of modern engine tech. Everything has been downsized to 2 litre turbos in the pursuit of efficiency, from 3l V6s, 6.2l V8s and 4.0l turbo V8s and so on. And yet the actual, real-world, efficiency figures are utter bobbins, and absolutely not worth the huge increase in vehicle weight, complexity and genericness. My old Audi with 4.2 V8 averaged around 20mpg; the fact that an equivalent 2l turbo 4-cylinder barely gets 30mpg is a nonsense.

@zomg I hope you had a nice cup of cocoa and a good night’s sleep. Sounds like you had a really bad day yesterday. 🙃

[BadlyWiredDog]

BadlyWiredDog

Full Member

I disagree on that point.  With watches, there are watches that are feats of minature engineering excellence which should be celebrated as such.  Sure, a Casio F series will tell you the time for about £20, but doesn’t have the engineering excellence of other watches.

The guy who started Elliot Brown explained watches to me as male jewellery. Most men don’t wear any other form of self-adornment, so a nice watch fits into that ‘need’ / want. Obviously f you genuinely get enthused about the insides of watches, that’s also an explanation or maybe a rationalisation in the strict sense. You decide.

I’d venture that a lot of top-end cars are the same. Jewellery on a very large scale – ‘look at me, I can afford a really big, fast, expensive car. I have exquisite taste and lots of money and drive really fast, sorry enjoy ‘spirited driving’…. etc.’ And that’s before you factor in all the Freudian stuff.

I used to ride very, very fast motorcycles and, in honesty, find fast cars underwhelming. Still knocking around in a beaten-up Mk2 Golf GTi and wearing a beaten-up Elliot Brown Canford watch. Can’t say a fast diesel estate is an itch I’d ever contemplate scratching, if I did, I’d probably seek medical advice. YMMV.

“Look at those status obsessed idiots who like fast cars or expensive watches, they must have very small willies.  Meanwhile one may assume that I have a enormous willy because I prefer very fast bikes and adorn my wrist with only moderately overpriced watches. I like my adornments to wear a certain ‘beaten-up‘ patina so people absolutely definitely know that I absolutely definitely am not interested in fast cars or expensive watches because then I would surely have a very small willy.”

[BadlyWiredDog]

I disagree on that point.  With watches, there are watches that are feats of minature engineering excellence which should be celebrated as such.  Sure, a Casio F series will tell you the time for about £20, but doesn’t have the engineering excellence of other watches.

The guy who started Elliot Brown explained watches to me as male jewellery. Most men don’t wear any other form of self-adornment, so a nice watch fits into that ‘need’ / want. Obviously f you genuinely get enthused about the insides of watches, that’s also an explanation or maybe a rationalisation in the strict sense. You decide.

I’d venture that a lot of top-end cars are the same. Jewellery on a very large scale – ‘look at me, I can afford a really big, fast, expensive car. I have exquisite taste and lots of money and drive really fast, sorry enjoy ‘spirited driving’…. etc.’ And that’s before you factor in all the Freudian stuff.

I used to ride very, very fast motorcycles and, in honesty, find fast cars underwhelming. Still knocking around in a beaten-up Mk2 Golf GTi and wearing a beaten-up Elliot Brown Canford watch. Can’t say a fast diesel estate is an itch I’d ever contemplate scratching, if I did, I’d probably seek medical advice. YMMV.

Has anyone said Mercedes CLS yet? To be fair the diesel versions aren’t especially quick.

I disagree that a sporty estate is a sad compromise. It’s a glorious one. Of course it’s not a replacement for an actual sports car, but that’s not why they exist. They are for people who want a big car with room for people and gear, but also want to enjoy a windy road on the way. Not “enjoy” in the sense of ragging it, just flowing along with ease and comfort.

My old user name was greatlover bur MrsMC made my change it due to advertising standards…

Always undersell and over deliver!

Pmsl at Multi21

Not “enjoy” in the sense of ragging it, just flowing along with ease and comfort.

Agree thats the point I was making above. My e-class estate handle very well for a 2+ tonne tank and can go along any country road just fine up to about 7/10 whilst your just chilling. But there is no point trying to go any quicker. I used to drive quickly every where. I now drive slowly and chilled. But still miss a proper sports car hence saving for a Caterham

Just google my e-class and the 0-60 is 7.5 seconds which surprised me, I thought it felt slower than that. I really dont see the advantage of being able to do that in 4.5 seconds as some of these fast estates can. I do like the idea of a more silky engine though that would be the icing on the cake.

I just cant see the point in spending many thousands more to do that in any of these estate cars to get something that is compromised (apart from M3 estate)

As to estate v saloon handling. My BMW 320d estate was more fun to drive than my 330i saloon. The 320 was softer sprung, less low profiled tyres, less power. So you could actually drive it quicker, make the back end slide etc. The 330 required silly speeds to do the same, would let go with less warning, and actually was a pig to drive at the edge of grip.

I haven’t got one but I did have use of one for a week, an absolute blast, loved it.

Well I like a fast estate!!! Ran a mk7 Golf R for two years, loved it. Easily got 40mpg on long journeys.

Currently got a 2 litre diesel Quattro A6 estate. 200bhp. Not especially zoomy but plenty fast enough in a usable way. Very pleasant place to be for not silly money.

Can’t say a fast diesel estate is an itch I’d ever contemplate scratching, if I did, I’d probably seek medical advice

Thread title probably a bit misleading

A diesel estate probably suits my requirements at the moment for the following reasons

Driving the Discovery all week for work, getting the inside and outside clarted up with mud, then using it to go anywhere at the weekend is getting a bit meh

Most of the vehicles I’ve had have been diesels – I don’t mind a torquey diesel engine. 700nm in the 340d. If you’re just used to driving a petrol, the low down torque of a meaty diesel can be quite fun.

I like estates – far more practical than saloons, can’t really think of a car I want at the moment that’s a hatch. A lot of newer estates (tourers) don’t look anywhere near as crap as they used to.

Will be used for work occassionally – some tools/gear

After the last car, Mrs STR wouldn’t be too keen on another sports car (ok, the RS5 wasn’t a sports car – performance saloon) as it frightened the life out of her. Most of the time a diesel estate won’t be urging you to ‘drive it’ – the Audi worked best at 4000-8000rpm with a screaming V8

If I’m having one, I want it to have some power. Can’t stand driving underpowered vehicles

So the BMW bit – after being a passenger in a mapped 330/335?d convertible a few years ago, I was astounded at how rapid it was, so for a few years, have always thought I’d probably get a beemer oil burner at some point if it suited my requirements. Haven’t been that keen on the styling, or interior of recent 3 series, but don’t mind the current iteration

So, no – I’m not lusting after a fast diesel esteate per se, it’s just something I am considering and this particular car has piqued my interest

Saw a VW Arteon shooting brake R Line estate parked up the other day in a shade of grey.

Looked the nuts.

Saw a VW Arteon shooting brake R Line estate parked up the other day in a shade of grey.

Looked the nuts.

Yeah, they are nice. They only do a 2l 4-pot though. I like my diesels with 6 (or 8) cylinders