Ok, so I've been off the bike for too long (or on it too infrequently to make a difference!) but riding up in Hebden Bridge on Saturday made me really think about what was happening when I tried to climb.

On the flat I can ride decently enough. Pedal along, all fine and dandy. As soon as the trail points up I seem to get acid burn come on really quickly in my legs limiting my power, then I put in massive effort to just crawl up as best I can before stopping/walking/just about getting to the top through gritted teeth.

So two questions really; what's happening in legs when I climb and what can I do to fix it?

(Yes, I realise 'ride more' is a good answer, but is there anything specific I can do?)

your feet are too light.

Yes, I realise 'ride more' is a good answer, but is there anything specific I can do?)

ride more uphill

Push yourself more on hills rather than just getting up them. As you say, ride more. Riding more will help lose weight too and thereby improve the old power to weight ratio.

What about losing some weight?

When i dropped from 16st down to 14.5st, i was monstering all the whippets that had previously left me on climbs for years.

Lactic acid burn as you go anaerobic. Basically because you are unfit you aren't getting enought oxygen to your muscles for respiration to be efficient when you climb. You're body also isn't used to the effort of climbing and isn't coping with the lactate and very quickly it's building up in your muscles and causing the burn.

Ride more, climb more, get fitter, ride harder and faster, but as Lemond said…."it doesn't get easier, you just get faster".

Pace yourself more at the start of the climb? Do you ride with others who ride a lot more than you? If you ride on your own it's easy to push youself too hard or harder than you realise you are.

All IMO of course 😉

According to Newtons 2nd law I think it is, once you are moving on the flat the only thing you have to overcome is resistance from the air and the bike. As soon as you start going up hill you are fighting gravity as well.

Get fitter and loose some weight. Easy to say; a bit harder to do.

Yay, no-one's used to the 'intervals' word yet. I love STW.

I have lost some weight, but it's also coincided with a lack of riding, so one's had a bigger effect than the other.

I do try and take things steady when I'm climbing, I'm aware of how much of a short coming it is, but it just comes on so quick at the moment that I can't really manage it.

Ok, so ride up hill more. If only I could find somewhere to do that in Sheffield… 🙂

Yay, no-one's used to the 'intervals' word yet. I love STW.

Or the old classics "think in circles" or "push harder on every 3rd pedal" 😆

Singlespeed.

No, seriously. I went to singlespeed and found my leg muscles built up far quicker, and when I go back on my geared bike I can fly up the hills far faster than before. It conditions you to put the power down as opposed to spinning in a low gear.

get rid of the spokey dokies, they are just adding extra weight.

Presume you're using the gears to best effect? On really steep sections I find it helpful to perch on the nose of the saddle. Also helpful to visualise keeping the chain constantly taut

i will second that…. 'ride with others" they will push you harder !
this is the way i learnt : each hill i came to, i always climbed a little 'further' the next time i did that same hill and so on …. make your own marker and tell yourself 'you got past that marker last time' so each time you climb , you instinctively know to get further ahead….
i ride with my son alot and his mates (they are all half my age yet i still keep plodding on and dont give up much anymore… if there is someone cycling infront of you most of the time uphill then you know you have to carry on as they dont ruddy wait for you ! lol hahahahha

Google fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibres. Your slow twitch (endurance) muscles just aren't up to the job of climbing so you start using the fast twitch (power) muscles. Unfortunately fast twitch cells are good for about 10 seconds then you pump and burn…

If you're fitter (endurance-wise) it'll help. If you're lighter it'll help. If you stop doing those 500lb squats in the gym it'll help. And… you can change your technique to help too. Don't stand up for a start.

Avoiding the 'ride more' response, what YoGrant said is true.

The reason your legs have problems is most likely due to lack of cardiovascular fitness rather than weak legs (you have gears to adjust for leg strength – more spindly legs can just push a lower gear faster).

If you lack CV fitness, you will be working anaerobically when going uphill. This produces lactic acid (hence the leg burn) and is massively less efficient (x15) than aerobic metabolism, so you get knackered much much faster.

So, how do you improve CV fitness? Ride more, push harder (oh and intervals help)! 😛

Don't stand up for a start

I disagree. I find standing helps to relieve stress on certain muscles whilst you make use of others.

I disagree. I find standing helps to relieve stress on certain muscles whilst you make use of others.

Depends how you're built. I pump almost instantly, but I am a 16-stone former meat head. The only way to keep my fast-twitch fibres out of the equation is to not make my legs cope with my bodyweight as well as the climb.

When you stand up to climb, do you actually weigh more because your centre of gravity is higher above the ground? Just wondering. That would explain a lot, also why it's hard to climb at altitude and you tent to tire as you go up a climb. I'm thinking that the higher above the centre of the earth you go, the stronger the forces of gravity and therefore the more you weigh.

That's why the big alpine cols are so hard and also why the best climbers tend to be small and light because even when they're heavier because of the height gain, they are still lighter, if you see what I mean?

I guess, if I'm correct then a lower bike – maybe even dropping the saddle slightly – might help you to climb faster. Or even a recumbent?

if you arent already, clipping in and then pulling up as well as pushing down works for me

When you stand up to climb, do you actually weigh more because your centre of gravity is higher above the ground? Just wondering. That would explain a lot, also why it's hard to climb at altitude and you tent to tire as you go up a climb. I'm thinking that the higher above the centre of the earth you go, the stronger the forces of gravity and therefore the more you weigh.

That's why the big alpine cols are so hard and also why the best climbers tend to be small and light because even when they're heavier because of the height gain, they are still lighter, if you see what I mean?
Actually it's the opposite. The gravitational force is inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of mass. (F=GmM/R^2 where F = force, G = gravitational constant, m = your mass, M = mass of earth, R = distance between masses) so increasing R reduces F if all others are constant.

Hard work at altitude is related to the lower pressure of oxygen at altitude due to the reduced weight of the air above you (less height of atmosphere above you = less pressure) meaning your body has to breathe harder/faster in order to get the same amount of Oxygen into the blood.

I think that the second one of these has a much more significant effect for a given change in altitude than the first one!

you've got to find some pretty special hills to get altitude effects on a bike. The Alpine cols, in general, really aren't hard – they're just long. A lighter person will have to do less work to get up them than a heavier person, that's pretty much all there is to that one.

The gravitational force is inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of mass. (F=GmM/R^2 where F = force, G = gravitational constant, m = your mass, M = mass of earth, R = distance between masses) so increasing R reduces F if all others are constant.

Just thinking the very same 😆

try riding the uplift service rather than your bike. The burning sensation will be replaced with a stinging sensation in the wallet & broken bones from the superfast descents

I'm fairly bad at hills too, but my solution has been to do several of the "only do this" things above – singlespeed – being forced to standand stomp has helped. And the correct technique sitting and going for ages has also helped.

Get a road bike…..mixing it up worked wonders for me this summer. Go out for 3-4hr rides, gradually wind it up. No idea about the science, I'm no faster on the gnarly stuff ('cause I'm scared) but long MTB rides and any climbing involved I can race up em now.

Try running, especially hilly off road. I find it really helps improve my uphill speed on my rides (or run carrying the bike up a few hills…)

Ride around dartmoor (or similar) – made my hill climbing better – I think a lot of it is just spending more time hill climbing IMHO!

Just try to find some loops that have less climbing than descents, works for me.

Just ride more.

Oh sorry – too obvious. Erm… buy some colour coordinated hubs and skewers?

do you actually weigh more because your centre of gravity is higher

Practically you weight the same at the top and bottom or your stroke/hill/mountain. Theoretically you weight less but you need to go some distance away from Earth to notice.

But what you might be thinking about is how you stand, and then use your weight to put big pressure down on the pedal. But you still had to use energy to lift you body. Overall, I'm sure this is less efficient than sitting and pedalling, and more jerky/slippy too. I prefer the technique of climbing steeps by perching on the nose of my saddle esp. on the FS.

Actually it's the opposite. The gravitational force is inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of mass. (F=GmM/R^2 where F = force, G = gravitational constant, m = your mass, M = mass of earth, R = distance between masses) so increasing R reduces F if all others are constant.
Hard work at altitude is related to the lower pressure of oxygen at altitude due to the reduced weight of the air above you (less height of atmosphere above you = less pressure) meaning your body has to breathe harder/faster in order to get the same amount of Oxygen into the blood.

I think that the second one of these has a much more significant effect for a given change in altitude than the first one!

I love the way people let science get in the way of common sense. What a load of pretentious bollocks, just because you know a few theories, doesn't change the way gravity works and as for the high altitude thing, if you were correct, then people would adjust to cope with it. I find that all a bit hard to believe.

Climbs are all about power to weight ratio.

If you can increase power or decrease weight (or both) you will get up faster.
The best climbers in the world, like Contador and such have huge power outputs and weigh bugger all.

To a point it is just a case of riding more, but once your fitness reaches a level then adding hill sprints and intervals might be helpful.

I love the way people let science get in the way of common sense. What a load of pretentious bollocks, just because you know a few theories, doesn't change the way gravity works and as for the high altitude thing, if you were correct, then people would adjust to cope with it.

Bloody scientists with their 'theories' and 'facts' and 'measurements'!

Is all this stuff about weighing more when you're higher up on the bike and at high altitude a piss take of the audio cable threads or something that I am missing?

Joe

Concentrate on your breathing, slow and easy, easier said than done. Getting as much oxygen in allows you to stay aerobic for longer. And BadlyWiredDog, people do adjust to cope with it (low oxygen), that is the principal underlying attitude training and those hyperbaric tents that some road teams use.

Actually it's the opposite. The gravitational force is inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of mass. (F=GmM/R^2 where F = force, G = gravitational constant, m = your mass, M = mass of earth, R = distance between masses) so increasing R reduces F if all others are constant.

Yeah, well, you can prove anything with facts.

[physics geek mode]

Oddly enough there actually is a fundamental force – the nuclear strong force – which doesn't get weaker as the particles involved move further apart.

[/physics geek mode]

But BWD's still wrong though.

Your head thinks you're still fit while your body has lost it's fitness abit from being off.

1) Patience

2) Find a hill and ride up it, repeat till knackered once a week.

3) Try to go a bit faster each week on that hill using your cycle computer etc.

4) Eat healthy and as required to build the fitness type.

It will come along in time.

Well I suppose the other factor that I didn't take into consideration is that as you get higher in altitude and the air is thinner and less dense, you displace less mass of air and therefore will have less "bouyancy" from the air. I wonder if that change in bouyancy is greater than the change in gravitational pull? If it is more significant, then BWD could actually be right!