Which panel van to convert?

I have about £9000 to spend on a SWB panel van to convert to a camper/day van. I just want something I can sling the bikes in and sleep in. At the moment I have a Citreon Berlingo MPV and find it too small. It has also been a little bit of a pain mechanically.

I’m going to rip the bulkhead out, insulate and carpet the inside….but not going to do too much more to the van.

My priority is mechanical reliability and fuel economy.

It’s quite overwhelming and started looking at the choice of vans:

– VW Transporter (started here…but they are too expensive and seem expensive to repair)

– Transit Custom (then moved to this idea – but wet belts and seem rusty. Leaf springs in back and MPG’s not that super)

So I started reading online and lots of people seem to think the Vauxhall Vivaro, Renault Traffic and Citreon/Peugeot Expert/Dispatch seem to be better choices.  These are brands that I would have always avoided in the past.

Many of them have these new  small ad-blue 1.5/1.6 Euro 6 diesel engines which I would have normally been keen to avoid.

But anyway…I’ve sat looking at classified ads for vans for hours now. Despite a spreadsheet of vans that are within my budget, I can’t work out what is the best value. Dealers seem to value their stock wildly differently… so what would the great people of STW do?

Sort of going through the same search at the moment, having previously owned a T4 which i converted.

Transporters: Probably the best of the bunch, not too wide, good space inside and some of the nicest to drive. So expensive but do hold their value. I just hate the idea of paying 6k+ for a 20 year old van, also rusty, but good on fuel and huge availability of spares due to their popularity. Will probably end up with one of these myself if i can find the right one

Transit custom: Wet belt like you say on the newer ones but the older 2.2 were chain driven and more reliable. Dont think rust is so bad on these now.

Vivaro/Trafic (previous gen, new gen are smaller) etc: Wider, less internal height. 1.6 engines are ok, good on fuel and its a van so doesnt need to be rapid. Weak clutches (old mans one went at 50k). Not as good to drive as the transporter but  better vfm, width makes them a bit harder to park etc.

Other one to look at are newer shape VITO, dont seem to be as rusty, 1.6 a bit naff but there is a 2.0/2.1 which is better reviewed. Not as tall as transporter but look a bit smarter and less ‘work van’ than a transit or vivaro if thats what you are after. Slightly better value than a transporter – all of them have twin sliding doors as well i think.

Edit – Vitos do have strange pedal operated handbrake

I have a 2005 Vito bought it in 2008, just passed its MOT in October but needs some rust fixed . Should have rustproofed it when I bought it. Engine wise never missed a beat,on 150000 miles and probably good for another 200000. Put it on  SORN until I find someone who is good for welding. Have the newer model as well, if you buy one  get one of the bigger engine versions with rear wheel drives as it’s a real Merc (baby sprinter ) . They say 2010 on the rust issues were fixed.

I bought a transporter for the internal height advantage over the dispatch etc and the fact it hasn’t got french electrics which have always been a pain on Renault’s/Peugeot’s of driven before. Yes it cost more but spares and accessories are definitely more plentiful.

I’ve sound deadened, removed bulkhead and added a rubber floor for ease of cleaning mud out, not going to carpet because it’ll just get filthy quickly. Slept in the back a couple of times just on an inflatable camping bed and it was surprisingly comfy. Now fitted a Modular prototype bed with slide out drawer that matches the internal bike rack so looking forward to testing that out.

One thing I miss from the transit I had before is the heated windscreen. It’s been a pain going back to a scraper!

I have a 2015 Dispatch with a 2l EURO5 engine and have done this, having previously done the same thing with a 1.9l T5 from 2005.

The Dispatch/Jumpy is lovely. Cab has a bunch more space than I felt in the T5, but it’s a smaller van overall and the bed I have in there leave no space for other stuff and kind of forces me to sleep at an angle. The SWB T5 was a touch longer in the load area, taller and wider by a fraction, so was a better choice for a van. Economy in my Dispatch is better than the T5, feels just as ok to drive. T5 has more parts available for conversions, so that is a serious plus for the VW models.

The newer Dispatch/Expert/Proace all seem ok, but the thing I really like about mine (the headroom and overhead cubbies in the front) are not there any more, so it feels just a van. They are still way cheaper than the same age T5 though.

I keep seeing T5s pop up on my searches and think about switching out for one, then I realise that it would mean a ton of extra cost for something that is more thrashed, older and higher mileage, so i am sticking with the Jumpy. Honestly, I can cope with the diagonal sleeping when I use it. I just wish the side door would shut properly from the inside.

Leaf springs in back

Does it matter?  I had to drive the old shape one a lot for work and TBH “it’s a van”, it still went round corners quick enough to scare passengers even on economy van ditch finders, what more do you want it to do?  It was a bit of a lemon though, it was always in the garage for something.  Weirdly we had two and the other one was fine (apart from getting written off). Must have been a Friday afternoon model.

Speed wise, even the gutless one did 0-illegal eventually, and being brick shaped the only thing faster than a company van in the outside lane is it’s fuel needle.

Similar thought process and also considering a Vito.  No idea of model years but the new ones are the same as the new (smaller) Vivaro and the rest of the mid sized Stellantis vans.

It’s that or an early model 110 Landrover and put the £335 VED saving towards the maintenance. Less in every objective way, but I’ve always wanted a Bronze Green 9-seater County.

In the usual “recommend what you own”, I’ve had my Transporter for 10+ years now and its been one of the most reliable vehicles we’ve ever had. In 10 years/70k miles, major things its needed have been:
– clutch & DMF
– driveshafts
– EGR valve/cooler

Thats it. Everything else has been consumables but even they’ve been cheap (eg sub £200 for discs and pads all round and a couple of hours on the driveway to change them). The expensive to fix thing is a myth – get a well looked after 1.9 or 2.0 CR (single turbo) and you should be fine.

I often think of getting rid and getting a vast, quick estate (Merc E63 currently top of my list) but apart from the pace and comfort, the van does so many things well. Had ours as a full blown camper build with hob etc but it just became a hinderance so I tore the back out, re-lined it all out, kept most of the electrics and fitted a kombi rear seat with an Amdro kombi bed. Now its seats 6 + 4 bikes easily, sleeps 4 (we’ve still got the pop top) and is a decent daily driver given its about the same length as a Passat.

Vauxhall Vivaro, Renault Traffic and Citreon/Peugeot Expert/Dispatch

I would head this way.
Our T5.1 2.0 115bhp is a poor van IMO. It is less practical and poorer engine than a Transit. The dash and lights are woeful in comparison to most other things.
Good Things – it does not rust as much, easy to get parts, resale value.

I like Transits, and they work well as long as you can stay on top of rust.

When we bought ours we had just test driven a Vivaro and were quite take by it. We had planned to buy one and pay local convertor.

The T5.1 Bilbo’s Komba then came up and was just too good a camper and deal to pass up.

My sons cheap transit conversion – SWB, two bikes, double bed, all in cost under £4.5k and was sold for £3.5k after 18 months of use and months wandering the alps…

And what ‘a little bit more £’ gets you…ahem.

If your conversion includes internally fitting it out then you’ll find a wide range of pre-configured cabinets, beds and so on off the shelf for the T4/T5s. However, they are a wee bit narrower than the equivalent Vivaro/Trafic so limit your layout options.

I drive a 2009 LWB Trafic, now fully converted to a campervan (with pop-top etc). It’s been reliable, “solid” to drive and has just enough space.

These are brands that I would have always avoided in the past.

‘Brands’ don’t really mean anything with most vans now – the badge doesn’t really indicate who made the van. Some badges have moved between manufacturer from year to the next as well – Particularly Vauxhall.

How much is it to replace a driveshaft on a Transit Custom? Apparently they like to snap them. I know someone who paid to replace the driver side driveshaft twice in 2 years then his wet belt snapped. I’ve been the victim of a snapped wet belt myself so I’ll avoid them like the plague from now on.

All vans have their problems though. I’m sick of the sight of vans but I’d probably look at a 2.0 Trafic/Talento if I wanted another one.

‘Brands’ don’t really mean anything with most vans now

I’d say they kind-of do if Stellantis vans all still have “French” electrics.

Which is something I’m apprehensive about, as I’m pondering buying a van myself.

OP – we are no doubt looking at the same vans on AT, personally I’m swithering between a Transit Custom or a Dispatch/Expert/Proace/New Vivaro. Possibly a Trafic/previous gen Vivaro. And no closer to a decision.

I’d say they kind-of do if Stellantis vans all still have “French” electrics.

Aren’t they all built in Luton with mostly Bosch electrical components?

Also, why do you hate the French?

FWIW if anyone recalls i bought a Transit Custom exactly 2 years ago on a 16, non-wet belt model.

I bought it on 43,000 and it’s now on 90,000. It gets used like a van, but one of us sleeps in it at weekends. It’s got air-con, heated seats, screen, cruise, DAB etc.. It needed pads and discs front last week, but that’s what 50,000 miles of driving does. It had one minor issue which was £100 fix, but that was sorted under warranty.

I bought from Anchor Vans in Reading as my mate owns the company and it’s been absolutely perfect for what we want.

All used vans are a lottery.

That ^^^ about 100x.

I bought the cheapest, newest, lowest mileage version of what I more or less liked that I could find. I knew it has some problems, found others after I had driven it for a while, but the cheapness meant that I could and continue to overlook them.

Yes, I needed two new winter tyres. Yes, some of the supplementary electrics looked like they had been wired by an alcoholic, blind monkey three days into a bender, but I was redoing most of that putting the split charger and leisure circuits in, so I didn’t care. It has a towbar, so the lack of working reverse assistance is not a huge issue (as the lamp post outside City Gross will tell you). At some point I will fix the reversion stuff. Or not.

All used vans vehicles are a lottery.

FTFY

Aren’t they all built in Luton with mostly Bosch electrical components?

Dispatch and Expert built in France apparently. Vivaro may be built in Luton (sadly closing, possibly moving to Wirral).

It’s the wiring and the keeping water out of the electrics that I’m concerned about, based on French cars we’ve had in the family.

Also, why do you hate the French?

Why would you say that FFS?

Weeksy – Good to hear your Transit has been trouble-free. My friends have also had good experiences with them. The lure of the heated windscreen is strong.

I’m looking /getting the Traveller/Vivaro Life people carrier version of the Expert/Vivaro. Looking at a ‘parcel shelf’ bed system to do the occasional overnight. Mainly for tent camping and carrying bikes/paddle boards, but can use the bed system. You get alot more for the money with these vans, and much newer than a corresponding VW. They are very well equipped.  Vivaro is supposedly slightly better built, but residuals are slightly less. I can get a better equipped Vivaro Life for slightly less than the Pug Traveller. The Toyota’s aren’t as well specced and most are a ‘mid range’ model.

Have owned PSA vans since 1995, normally keeping them around 10 years and taking over 100,000 miles with no major electrical issues (indicator stalk on mk1 Dispatch, a window motor on mk2 and a central locking door actuator on mk3). Certainly nothing wiring or ECU related. Also got a 2005 Berlingo and a 2010 C3 Picasso in the family without issues. The C15 that we sold at 155,000 carried on another 9 years to 238,000 until it disappeared from the MOT database (despite the wiring looking like it was an afterthought).

Not such good experience of Renault electrics. Had a stopgap Scenic which had some electrical issues and a previous owner looked to have some big ECU bills. Trafic and Vivaro at work both had issues, together with VW T5 that ate driveshafts.

My current 2 litre Dispatch has just blotted it’s copybook with water pump impeller detaching so that was a new pump (and cambelt whilst having the pump done) at 6 years and 60,000 miles (with the early change I’ll hopefully not need to do the cambelt again in my ownership). Nice enough vehicle. Miss the overcab shelf but that went as they raised the front seat height and lowered the roof a smidge. The Transit Custom is king of in-cab storage with stowage for big cups, 2 litre bottles, thermos flask etc and loads of tie downs in the back.

We’re on our second Tourneo Custom, which is the 9 seat people carrier version of the Transit Custom.  Both of them have been relatively trouble free – we replaced the first one because we fancied the facelift version. New one is an 18, and has just had the wet belt replaced at an indie garage we trust for around £900, at 80,000 miles – I figured it was cheaper to spend the money than risk the bill if it failed. Other than that, the only major issue we’ve had was the wiper motors which packed up as some of the wiring had rusted at the connectors, which effectively scrapped the otherwise functional motors. We’re currently contemplating replacing it with a panel van to fit out as a camper, and I’d certainly look at Transit Customs again – I’ve heard horror stories about every brand of van; Trafics were notorious for seized injectors at one point, which required a spendy fix. If you’re buying a van, you have to go into it knowing they’re more expensive to run than a car, irrespective of which van you buy (unless the car is a Discovery, in which case, all bets are off!)

If you’re buying a van, you have to go into it knowing they’re more expensive to run than a car, irrespective of which van you buy (unless the car is a Discovery, in which case, all bets are off!)

Very true.

All used vans are a lottery.

I miss my bangernomics Berlingo, total depreciation and repairs over almost 30,000miles was £189 (£110 depreciation, £59 clutch cable and £20 for a door handle).

If you’re buying a van, you have to go into it knowing they’re more expensive to run than a car,

Which feels unfair when they share mechanicals and have  fewer other bits to go wrong! I guess as a result of the first point they get a lot more of a thrashing than a car though. The transit used to be full throttle as soon as you got out of 1st gear, then 4 more changes before the speed limit.

Don’t want to deviate the thread too much, but does anyone know how much it costs to get a ‘van’ resprayed?

Merc Viano to be precise, so windows all round.

I admit I’m slightly out of touch with current used van prices, but if it gets you a non-fubarred Transit Custom then its a decent choice.

We changed from a 2004 VW T5 camper conversion to a new 2017 Transit Custom double-cab. Owned from new, 34k miles so far which is nothing. Paid £850 at a trusted local Transit specialist to replace the wetbelt – based on age rather than miles, for our peace of mind as we intend keeping this for a while (Ford revised guidance is 6yrs or 100k miles). If buying a used 2.0 with the wetbelt engine I’d budget for a belt change unless bulletproof evidence of it having been done. Drives nicer than Vivaro/clones and nicer than the T5, if that matters.

Decent amount of conversion stuff available for the Transit Custom although not as extensive as the T6.

Worth it for the heated screen alone.

In the usual “recommend what you own”, I’ve had my Transporter for 10+ years now and its been one of the most reliable vehicles we’ve ever had. In 10 years/70k miles, major things its needed have been:
– clutch & DMF
– driveshafts
– EGR valve/cooler

Thats it.

That sounds like quite a lot of expensive bits going wrong sub 70k?

We have a 2017 Transit Custom at work and my sister has a 2016 Vivaro. She’s been very happy with it and no major issues but the Transit is a much nicer thing to sit in and drive IMO.

Planning to get a Torneo Custom myself.

I did a 59 plate Renault trafic hi top. It was fairly easy to convert as it has straighter sides than a T5 which curves in a lot. They seem very rust proof as they’re galvanized – no rust on mine when i sold it earlier this year (had kids!). That being said if I were doing it again i’d do a ducato/relay – much easier to get stuff to fit – e.g. I had to get a custom water tank made, ducato there are loads of pro convertors using them so you can get one easily.

@mick_r Roughly how much was the pump and cambelt on the expert ? I’ll be looking to do what ever van I get slightly early, so want to factor in.

Why SWB big van and not LWB small van instead?

My LWB Kangoo will hold two bikes and me sleeping( I’m 6ft 2)

Gets 50mpg

I bought a 70 plate LWB transit custom. Sound deadened and insulated. Still a van but just a nice place to be as the 60 plate smax it replaced. Just had the wetbelt changed at 90k and it was starting to delaminate, I’d budgeted for that when I’d bought it. Couple of driveshaft boots ended in knackered CV’s after changing just the boots. Pair of driveshafts from Gary Walker transit centre was cheaper than a single one from the local place. Get about 37mpg, but I don’t do many miles.

Cam belt prices: Current shape Dispatch 2 litre OE belt and pump, cooling system flush and new coolant at the dealer was just under £800 which I didn’t think too bad (roughly £350 parts and £300 labour plus VAT).  It is a family owned dealer near work and a pleasure to use as you are dealing with the owner, or his brothers, son, nephews etc (lots of experience – they knew straight away over the phone it would be the water pump on that particular age and engine).

We’ve had the 1.6 HDi belt, pump and tensioner done for about £500 at independent in the past (get some van reg numbers off Autotrader and stick them into GSF etc to see what the belt kits cost then factor in 3-4 hours labour).

I’d definitely recommend driving a few to compare. I personally don’t like the Traffc etc as the front suspension feels very stiff and short travel. Tall people complain about the Dispatch seat not going back far enough etc. Best to make your own mind up.

Definitely look for regular servicing with correct oil as that can be a factor in the various online engine horror stories (wet belts, early 1.6 HDI turbos etc).

That sounds like quite a lot of expensive bits going wrong sub 70k?

Sub 100k – van had 30k miles on it when we bought it. The driveshafts are a known weak point but cheap and easy enough to replace. The EGR valve/cooler is the same consumable part on most modern diesels and the clutch/dmf I’d half expect to need to do as well. Total cost for all that was probably about £1500 over 10 years of ownership so £150 a year and the van probably isn’t worth much less than what I paid for it 10 years ago.

I was in this postion just over a year ago, budget was 15k

Had enough French cars to know to stay away from anything French due to dodgy electrics

Narrowed my options down to two, Transit custom or VW T5.1

Wet belt issue put me right off the newer Transits, looked at the older cambelt Transits and the interiors just didnt do it for me

In the end the right T5.1 popped up locally from someone i know, they are more expensive but they hold thier value and are more desirable

11 plate T5.1 factory Kombi with twin sliding doors, tailgate, 140bhp version, Sportline bodykit, lowered on 20in wheels, nice colour, FSH with very bill kept, 160k on the clock, cambelt and waterpump done included in purchase, 2 ownwers from new, 2nd owner runs his own garage

Outside wise everything was spot on, inside hadnt been touched, it had air con, folding mirrors but no cruise, so i decided to spend a couple of grand upgrading, multi fucnction steering wheel, cruise control, seat covers, Audi S5 driver’s seat, sound deadend and insulated the whole van and then carpeted along with a nice stereo to get it how i wanted it

When going on MTB trips i just remove the rear seats and chuck my bike and fishing bed in the back

Leaf springs in back

Does it matter?

Mine is leaf sprung at the rear. Most of the time it’s not noticeable. It does bounce a lot over slow speed objects like speed bumps, and is just generally less bouncy when it’s loaded a bit. Overall not a big deal but all else being equal I’d take coils if you’re carrying light stuff, like bikes, and leaf for heavier things.

Having said that I snapped a front coil spring and had be taken away on a truck

My mate has been through the same process. He was retiring & wanted to convert his own van.

I advised him, strongly, to get a van that had already been converted or even an actual camper van. I told him he’d get far better value from someone else’s investment & he’d get a lower mileage van too. Not some overworked commercial vehicle.

I found him a Sprinter with 50k on the clock that had a really top notch conversion done on it (from new) for £20k.

But no. He bought a Peugeot Boxer from a reputable dealer. 110k. Ex lease. Full history. It was still £10k. (This was when van prices were really high). We had it fully serviced & checked over & it got a clean bill of health.

He needed to be able to go “off grid” if he wanted.  He had no knowledge to start with but learned as he went & did a great job converting it & adding a massive battery system with huge solar panels etc.

His total spend was nearly £20k plus months of hard work.

He did a couple of trips then the head gasket went. Got it fixed. Then something else went. Now there’s an EGR problem. It’s in the garage most of the time & it’s costing him thousands but he’s put so much time, money & effort in he doesn’t want to give up.

Sad.

The 2013 -2016 2.2 diesel Mk 8 Transit did not have a wet belt…..apologies if someone has mentioned this already.

It does bounce a lot over slow speed objects like speed bumps, and is just generally less bouncy when it’s loaded a bit.

I think that’s just a function of the damping Vs the load in the back.  Springs are springs at the end of the day.

The reason leaf springs are worse:

1) noise, they can squeak when the bushings/shims wear through and the leaves rub against each other.

2) lateral location, if you have coils then you have some sort of mechanical location for the rea axle as well to stop it moving as the springs don’t do it.  Leaf springs usually act as both spring and to locate the axle, which they do well enough most of the time but the axle does move sideways under hard cornering which gets worse as the springs wear.  There’s not usually a panhard rod on vans.

3) inherent lack of independent rear suspension. If one wheel gets knocked, the other wobbles, so it has less traction when you clip the high kerbs on the apex of the Melbourne Hairpin at Donnington causing the loaded outside wheel to then let go spinning your transit custom into the back of the grandstands killing spectators in a fireball of diesel and wet-belt particles as the T6 takes the chequered flag.

Probably also an element of coil sprung vans having the springs and dampers swapped for ‘campervan’ weight springs rather than “3.5t but with a bit extra because we know you’ll overload it” van springs.

The cost of the thing was a big driver for me. I did not want to have the up-front cost of a full-blown camper/camper conversion for what I was going to use it for, bu I still wanted something that was more comfortable to sleep in than a normal estate car, or a panel van with a camp bed in the back.

What I ended up with is a comfortable middle ground. It’s got light insulation, primarily to take the edge off the sun in summer and extend overnight stays into later autumn. It’s got split charge and a leisure battery that allows me to fill iPad, phones, GoPros and stuff and, if the weather is decent, I have a 50w solar panel that trickles charge in during the day. I have a sunshade/awning mounted to the roof rack and a towball bike carrier so I can take a bike with me. I could (and may) mount some C-channel to the side so that I can stick the drive-away awning on the side, but that’s a “nice to have” and not a must.

It drives well, is decently economical, parks easily, is mostly comfortable to sleep in and only really lacks a fridge. In winter it gets used as a car and, in that at least, it works well enough that I don’t find myself wanting a car or regretting buying something too big. I really should get a cab/engine warmer fitted though.

Rear “leaf” springs are often single parabolic so not squeaky (a few are twin leaves). Their main advantage (other than cheap, simple and durable) is that there is no real camber change unladen to fully laden so they are good at coping with a big extremes of loading without excessive tyre wear.

Sprinters are pretty unique in having independent front suspension but a transverse composite spring – durable and a clever bit of packaging.