The proportion of our economy that is based on selling stuff that is not remotely essential to people that don’t actually need that stuff is frightening. I’m not talking about going to live in the woods or anything, but the amount of spend most people could remove without suffering any deleterious consequences is staggering.

Except for bike stuff. Obvs.

That’s the problem of the 21st Century.

When human society evolved to use money/economy to have a mechanism to exchange labour, it was just to help us get the essentials. Light, Heat, Food, Water and Shelter.

It’s been centuries since we needed to combined effort of all of us to provide those things for each other. Our competitiveness won’t allow us to have just some people working to provide those things whilst others just enjoy them, not outside our own family anyway.

Anything that doesn’t provide Light, Heat, Food, Water and Shelter is non-essential really, but we needed to invent other things to buy, in order to create jobs for people to make, move and sell those things.

I wouldn’t like to guess how much non-essential shit we produce and how many jobs rely on non-essentials, if you really pare things back to very simple food, cloths, and shelter, it’s probably up the high 90% range.

As ever, it’s not a problem of technology, it’s psychology if we just wanted a secure, warm hut to live in, enough clothes to keep up warm and simple food to eat. I’m pretty sure we could do with maybe 2 years of ‘National Service’ working on a farm, or home building for everyone and spend the rest of our lives doing nothing, but it would never work – it’s not in our nature, withing seconds you’d have people willing to work for 3 years for a bigger hut or better food etc.

We’ve tried societies that move towards that goal, Communism, but it never worked and had to rely on a very totalitarian regimes to try to force a non-greedy society.

If I had to guess how it will all end, at some point humans will just be outpaced by efficiency, it will start with GMI, people will HATE it, already the idea of “Dole Bums” living in crappy flats, in crappy parts of towns has people frothing at the mouth because they don’t work, and some people just can’t accept their life doesn’t have a special purpose, we are, just the cleverest animals on this planet, it’s made us arrogant enough to think we’re special and there’s some great reason to our existence, take away their jobs and it will only get worse.

Anything that doesn’t provide Light, Heat, Food, Water and Shelter is non-essential really, but we needed to invent other things to buy, in order to create jobs for people to make, move and sell those things.

Hold on. That assumes our basic physical needs are enough, as if we were zoo animals. But we’re not – surely we ‘need’ to aim for a fulfilling life for as many people as possible? Those who wish to be artists, cyclists, musicians, explorers and so on should be enabled to do so, surely?

I think this is why 20th century communism failed – because people are more than just workers providing state-sanctioned utility. They didn’t have the fulfilment that they needed.

Hold on. That assumes our basic physical needs are enough, as if we were zoo animals. But we’re not – surely we ‘need’ to aim for a fulfilling life for as many people as possible? Those who wish to be artists, cyclists, musicians, explorers and so on should be enabled to do so, surely?

Steady….

We are going for one extreme or the other here….

What I am saying is that a lot of our economy is based on the circulation of wealth connected to things that are basically luxuries.

I think this is why 20th century communism failed – because people are more than just workers providing state-sanctioned utility.

People were allowed hobbies etc in the CCCP. It was very unproductive due to being centrally managed and riddled with corruption, and was eventially bancrupted by the cold war.

Anything that doesn’t provide Light, Heat, Food, Water and Shelter is non-essential really, but we needed to invent other things to buy, in order to create jobs for people to make, move and sell those things.

Hold on. That assumes our basic physical needs are enough, as if we were zoo animals. But we’re not – surely we ‘need’ to aim for a fulfilling life for as many people as possible? Those who wish to be artists, cyclists, musicians, explorers and so on should be enabled to do so, surely?

Oh absolutely, which is the crux of my argument. One persons unnecessary *thing* is another’s basic human need.

There is no easy line to draw in the sand as to what is “not remotely essential”, so ‘we’ can’t easily decide who’s job is worthwhile and worth savings, and whose should be sacrificed to make things better in the long run. Which goes right back to the start of the discussion. Why it seems like we’re marching, running even back to the ‘way things were’ as quickly as possible rather than trying to some kind of Green Recovery / Revolution.

It’s not some Tory / Capitalist plot to see us all killed by the virus to save the billionaires worries, no, it’s because that’s how or society works at the moment. As @dannyh said, most of us are lucky enough to have disposable income to ‘waste’ every month, even more of us could live on a lot less, if we could just do without buying so much “not remotely essential” stuff, that’s the real benefit of being lucky enough to live in the Developed World. If we want to see change, we have to change, not wait for it. You do hear about people “stepping back” “downsizing” etc, but only usually once they’ve made the money, got the house etc.

Why all this talk of reducing the existing economy instead of increasing a greener economy?

Why all this talk of centralising rather than diversifying? All this talk of communist worker ants instead of vibrant, interdependent, communities? All this talk of sucking from a machine rather than creating stuff, growing stuff, funding stuff. A community orchard growing damsons, plums, quince, pears, nuts, a range of apples etc – vs a corner shop selling imported apples at £2 a plastic bag of tasteless cottony orbs. How about a community orchard AND a corner shop? The crapples in the plastic bag may be an acceptable loss. Just maybe.

Has consumerism rooted so deeply into our culture that we can only think of life in terms of production and consumption? Of factories and ants?

You aren’t going to support an economy of 55 million people by growing plums

You aren’t going to support an economy of 55 million people by growing plums

My ribs