In the privacy of his own bathroom. hth.

I think EPO will work without training, but you need a course of it over a few weeks, so it is not an “on the day” fix.

As far as I could see, EPO will help deliver more oxygen to the muscles, but you will still probably need to train your system to get more oxygen from the air you breath into the blood. You will also need to push beyond the mental pain barriers to really benefit from it. Then you need some form of steroid to recover and repeat. EPO would allow you to push harder on a given day, testosterone will allow you to keep going harder day after day. The combined affect over time will make the greater difference.

iirc Armstrong was on EPO a couple of different steroids, testosterone and hgh, depending on where he was in the season.

Concealed motor is the way to go, surely?

You can get a cheeky 200w boost and not have to ride a minging bike.

iirc Armstrong was on EPO a couple of different steroids, testosterone and hgh, depending on where he was in the season.

What? Armstrong took drugs? :O

`Re. The legality of EPO, from the lance documentary, didn’t Andreu say he just walked into a pharmacy in Switzerland and bought it over the counter? Has that changed since then?

Seriously don’t mess about with EPO. People have died in their sleep with that stuff and that’s riders with team doctors. Blood turns to sludge when your hemocrit level rises too much and when your HR and BP drops at night the system can just grind to a holt.

Dangerous drug- if riders with a Team doctor can die using it then an amateur can very easily!

People have died in their sleep with that stuff and that’s riders with team doctors.

Anecdotally.

Maybe so, but still worth the risk for a hobby rider?

Tbh no.

If I could take something like a tablet that would allow me to eat cake like I do and then be twice as good on a bike then I would. Unfortunately that’s not the case unless you’re also doing some kind of training.

Apart from the stimulant side of things.

Vets use EPO on various mamalss, but it is still a controlled heavily.

Not really sure why a small boost in performance is worth the risk.

“It is well known that EPO, by thickening the blood, leads to an increased risk of several deadly diseases, such as heart disease, stroke, and cerebral or pulmonary embolism. The misuse of recombinant human EPO may also lead to autoimmune diseases with serious health consequences.”

Doctors use EPO to treat actual humans. Quite sick ones.

They also use it in controlled tests to understand the effects of EPO on cyclists:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sport-doping-epo/epo-does-little-for-cyclists-race-performance-study-finds-idUKKBN19L1LT

I note that the study conclusion doesn’t end with, “It killed the experimental group TO DEATH!!”

I’m not condoning the use of PEDs, but we need to have sensible discussions about risk if we are to bring about harm reduction (see also: the UK government’s drug policy).

Haven’t you got to inject all these things?

People have died in their sleep with that stuff and that’s riders with team doctors

care to share any cases?

I recall reading an article on the benefits of beetroot juice as a PED. Not huge gains but something like a 0.5% boost. It does make you think that you are pissing blood though

As far as I could see, EPO will help deliver more oxygen to the muscles, but you will still probably need to train your system to get more oxygen from the air you breath into the blood. You will also need to push beyond the mental pain barriers to really benefit from it. Then you need some form of steroid to recover and repeat. EPO would allow you to push harder on a given day, testosterone will allow you to keep going harder day after day. The combined affect over time will make the greater difference.

I don’t think so. It increases the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood. So for a given state of health in the lungs, you get more oxygen in the blood. And if the limiting factor at the muscle end of things is oxygen supply (which it often will be) it helps there, again with nothing else changing.

ETA – pain barriers to do with build up of lactic acid due to operating anaerobically will be raised, you will get the extra performance for the same pain level.

pain barriers to do with build up of lactic acid

Isnt this an old myth? I think current thinking/science says lactic acid is not responsible for the pain.

http://sciencenordic.com/don’t-blame-lactic-acid-sore-muscles

It’s interesting that the OP thinks using an e-bike would be an affront to his dignity, but is happy to consider using performance enhancing drugs. So the important thing about the assistance appears to be whether it is visible to other people!