Pretty scary crash. There’s a load of signs around Stile Cop warning you about the potential for injury. I can’t remember if there are any that specifically mention pushing routes, but it’s kinda given really.

One thing to note though: if the person coming up was (say) a walker not a fellow biker and they decided to get all legal against the downhill biker, I would not like to stand up in court to defend them. I reckon they might have an expensive time of it :-/

Hopefully, being a fellow biker, some high words were said, cuts and bruises compared and they both went riding again, but it’s well worth remembering that unless you’re on a closed track, anything can happen round the next corner and you need to be ready for it.

Damn you nedrapier, for finding something not mentioned in the previous 3 pages!! (Marshals) (I’m not checking)

I didn’t! 😀

More luck than judgement, which is how the guys in the vid escaped serious injury – eh?! 😀

If it was a race, they’d have marshals at unsighted points of the track to slow riders if there was a casualty.

No race, no marshals, you’ve got to ride differently.

If during a race he had hit a spectator walking across the track who’s fault
is that?

Would the OP and his supporters have been offended if that was a casualty lying in the track?

Surely by your own logic it is the fault of the crashed rider for going to fast and crashing in the first place

Depends if the pedestrian ignored the tape / marshals or not I guess. If insufficiently taped / marshalled I guess it would be the organiser or BC for signing off the track inappropriately?

Sadly, the key thing is in a race the organiser will have Public liability so if a pedestrian is injured badly can be compensated

Surely by your own logic it is the fault of the crashed rider for going to fast and crashing in the first place

It would be his fault for crashing, but not his fault if then another rider ran into him because he was travelling too fast to stop.

That said – it’s becoming an increasing number of variables; for example when i’ve been on a ride when someone has crashed (badly) then we’ve immediately posted a sentry back up the track to prevent someone running into him and worsening the situation. If the downed rider’s mates hadn’t done that then they’d carry some of the blame for an ensuing crash; if another rider flew past them shouting strava (or missed the warning because they were listening to music on their headphones 😉 ) then it’d be their fault.

But like I said; whose ‘fault’ it is is not particularly what concerns me in these situations, I try to avoid getting into these situations full stop because the concept of suffering a major injury, or causing a major injury to someone else – the consequences of that are not substantially diminished by sitting in my wheelchair thinking ‘but I was in the right!’ Maybe I’m risk averse to that extent, YMMV.

Surely by your own logic it is the fault of the crashed rider for going to fast and crashing in the first place

Damn, that’s good.

Jamesfts, I am confused.

Yup, I’m not arguing that.

As you like car analogies I’ve got a pertinent one: If you drive your car around a blind bend at a speed that makes you unable to stop for a pedestrian crossing the road who’s to blame? The same applies to bikes.

Comparing a dedicated downhill track to a shared use public road is quite frankly nonsense.

Comparing a dedicated downhill track to a shared use public road is quite frankly nonsense.

Yes, very much this.

If you must compare, then maybe an open track day at the likes of Silverstone would be a better vehicle based analogy.

Don’t bother feeding the trolls.

whats the legal standing of a ‘dedicated downhill track’ though, in this case its on open access land so people can officially wander wherever they like. Even with signage don’t underestimate the sheer stupidity of most people (case in point the numpty pushing up in the video 😆 )

Personally I would guess the law would go against the rider as being the one who hit whoever was in the way, even though common sense says (excluding injuries) its the other way round.

Theres clearly only one possible solution;

No it wouldn’t. ‘Dedicated downhill track’ has absolutely no meaning what so ever to most of the population and certainly nothing legally that exempts you from your responsibilities; you may as well call it the ‘jumpy mcjumpface super awesome trail’ it means the same thing (nothing).

In fact you’ll probably find access to that site is under the CRoW act and cycling is merely permissive, in which case people have every right to walk it much like they do to cross the road. He could call it a ‘walking up cos I can track’ and would likely have a better claim than the bike rider.

A track day is on private land, doesn’t involve members of the public being able to go anywhere they like, large parts of it are fenced to prevent public access, and they’ll have staff / Marshalls out – I’m not sure how you struggle with this concept; its either ignorance or idiocy (I know which one I’m leaning towards).

There’s little point in me getting into this with you when you have such a poor grasp on access laws / liability. I do hope your insured for riding your bike as you may find it costly if you have an incident like this.

Dammit! What have I missed? Anything new since “Marshals” were mentioned?

Oh. Nope, just the same ground covered… 🙁

It’s entirely possible (and likely) though that there is a local bylaw defining it as a cycle track and removing the right to walk there. I’m sure I read somewhere that Swinley has this in place for the official tracks to keep walkers off.

Stile Cop Downhill MTB Trails

Looks pretty “dedicated” to me

We, as mountain bikers, need to stop being so subservient.

if it’s a purpose built mountain bike facility, then we should expect to ride them as such, free from having to giveway to walkers etc.

A tennis court or football pitch are purpose built facilities for those activities. Do you think anyone would walk onto to them when a match was in progress and expect the players to halt their game to let folk have a picnic etc in the middle, or play round them while they did whatever they wanted to do.

On proper shared use trails we absolutely need to behave appropriately, but on dedicated mountain bike trails I feel we should be able to use them as intended and not have to kowtow to thick and/or belligerent non cyclists.

I don’t think there’s much point going into the intricacies of access law either because it comes down to a basic attitude to life.

It’s a smug and selfish Top Gear inspired belief in your inherent right to career down public trails at such a speed that you can’t avoid crashing into people.

What gives you this right is ownership of a Chris ‘Finchy’ Finch type personality, a bouncy bike, full face helmet and body armour.

I’m taking Chakapings advice up there, and leaving the land reform experts to their permissive towpaths.

Enjoy.

We, as mountain bikers, need to stop being so subservient.

I nearly hit a guy that looked like Jesus on the Powerline at Chopwell woods. He was just walking up the with his long hair, beard and sandals right in the middle.

Saw him a second time doing the same thing a while later, I guess it was his thing.

As for the crash video – unless that was private land, with fences down each side stopping traffic, you still have to take care.

I nearly hit a guy that looked like Jesus…
Saw him a second time doing the same thing a while later

Was this around Easter time? Any caves close by? 😆

Just for clarity, me (the OP) isn’t the guy in the video.

As for the crash video – unless that was private land, with fences down each side stopping traffic, you still have to take care.

Good comment which certainly sums up my feelings here.

A tennis court or football pitch are purpose built facilities for those activities. Do you think anyone would walk onto to them when a match was in progress and expect the players to halt their game to let folk have a picnic etc in the middle, or play round them while they did whatever they wanted to do.

I think you’d stop before injuring them and ask them to move off the playing area. I don’t think you’d just run into them because ‘it’s within your rights’

(or i think you’d be a bit of a cock if you did)

Are you really that dense? Do I need to use smaller words?

There’s no such thing as a ‘dedicated bike trail’ solely for cycling on open access land (all FC land, commons etc), its a nonsense term. They are permissive, and inherently SHARED; anyone can use them on foot (including with push chairs, and dogs) that is their LEGAL RIGHT. Your analogies are crap and just show your total inability to comprehend the situation

It is entirely YOUR responsibility as the rider to not injure people by riding in a way appropriate to the trail conditions. If that means you cant go flat out around blind bends or over blind drops then frankly tough shit use you brakes a ride at an appropriate speed that enables you to stop in the distance you can see.

If you don’t like it you can buy your own land and ride like a self entitled cockwomble to your hearts content. But in public places (including trail centre ‘cycling’ trails) you should give a bit of consideration to others or at least the potential for others to be using it.

And people wonder why there’s such opposition to greater bike access, you 3 are a prime example of why.

I’m not suggesting you run into them, but you lot must ride in some fantasy land with no blind corners or drops.

It could very easily have been someone going downhill very slowly that the rider ran into the back of.

Would he he still feel they are fault then?

😆

I live in Scotland. We’ve got great access.

It is entirely YOUR responsibility as the rider to not injure people by riding walking in a way appropriate to the trail conditions design.

It could very easily have been someone going downhill very slowly that the rider ran into the back of

Did you watch the video? It wasn’t.

I’m bored now.

you lot must ride in some fantasy land with no blind corners or drops.

No, I’m just careful how I approach them if I’m not certain that the way is clear, to reduce or remove the likelihood of an accident if they aren’t.

I’m not suggesting you run into them

He did though. And again, where i accept the pusher was entirely in the wrong for pushing up a downhill track, the rider wasn’t under sufficient control to manage that eventuality.

And once again; attitudes to risk comes down to how likely it is to happen x the severity/outcome of an incident if it does. And clearly others have a different attitude to it than me, which is fine, we’re all adults and we can make our own choices.

It all comes back to rule number one, don’t be a dick. Last time I was at swinley I saw a group on foot reading about the trails at the start then walk off up the trails. Now obviously that is their right but seeing as they can walk on any bit of the whole forest but there is only one official bike track it seemed like an action that was inconsiderate and was going to cause conflict.

What if it was an ebiker motoring up the path trail hill to meet the downhiller?

Isn’t the whole point of downhill to use your superior skillz?

If you haven’t got the skill of seeing round corners or blind spots, then you should ride appropriately unless you have a cleared track or posted lookouts.

Malvern Rider –
What if it was an ebiker motoring up the path trail hill to meet the downhiller?

Yes! First mention of eBikes in the thread. Congrats 😆

Some people live in a odd world. There’s some top trolling in this post 🙂

Next we will see the STW trail police out with speed guns, frothing at the mouth.

Top trolling indeed, I’m guessing from those who’ve never turned a wheel on a dh track or had both wheels off the ground at the same time.

😆

Yep only on STW !

They guy pushing up the DH track must be a contender for this years Darwin award ?

Some people live in a odd world. There’s some top trolling in this post 

Only thing I don’t reckon some are trolling, they mean every word they’ve written 🙁

jamesfts – Member
Top trolling indeed, I’m guessing from those who’ve never turned a wheel on a dh track or had both wheels off the ground at the same time.

You’re missing the point there.

No one has a god given right to injure other people, and it’s simple decency to ride in such a manner that you avoid the risk of doing so.

If you are going to hurtle downhill (it’s fun) then you should be absolutely sure the track is clear. That means riding on a dedicated DH track with physically restricted access or having spotters on the blind bits.

Most mtb riders would know not to ride or push up such a track, but there’s plenty of folk out there who don’t know the rules, there’s kids, there’s dogs, and up here deer.

If you are going to hurtle downhill (it’s fun) then you should be absolutely sure the track is clear. That means riding on a dedicated DH track with physically restricted access or having spotters on the blind bits.

that’s just absolutely and completely insane. I’m astounded some of you are saying this

You’re missing the point there.

No one has a god given right to injure other people, and it’s simple decency to ride in such a manner that you avoid the risk of doing so.

If you are going to hurtle downhill (it’s fun) then you should be absolutely sure the track is clear. That means riding on a dedicated DH track with physically restricted access or having spotters on the blind bits.

Most mtb riders would know not to ride or push up such a track, but there’s plenty of folk out there who don’t know the rules, there’s kids, there’s dogs, and up here deer.

Solid 8/10. Chapeau.

I generally go quite quickly on trails, but having read this thread it seems that’s not the done thing. I guess at the very least I’ll spill less gin going slowly down the trails 🙂

How about a 30 page risk assessment in advance and a note from your mum?