[Closed] What music to test a hi-fi ?

I always go for something by Michael Jackson, the production on his stuff is consistently awesome 🙂 If the drums on the Billie Jean intro don't sound crisp and punchy then it's not worth having.

Something you like that is well recorded. We used certain discs when I was in hi fi and I would expect older stuff not to be so well recorded.

Brass can be very revealing, as can strong vocals or acoustic instruments.

Naim stuff is all about timing IIRC and so I wouldn't expect as much in terms of depth/imaging etc (stop wasting your time and try DNM 😀 )

I'm no expert - but something new but "quiet" would be good

something like "Master and Everyone" by Bonnie Prince Billy, or one of the Rick Rubin produced Johnny Cash albums

LOLs at tom.

bTW a lot of U2 is really badly recorded (over-compressed) - in order to sound good in cars IIRC.

I often use Big Calm by Morcheeba to audition hifi's. The production quality is impeccable I know it well.

Knowing it well is the most important thing as it gives you a frame of reference against which to judge.

There is also an Album called Spirit of '76 by Spirit. It has a version of the 'Like a rolling Stone' which is one of the most sensational recordings of all time. Utterly stunning and makes the kit really work.

What Naim kit you looking at?

good choice on "Billy Jean" tom - ridiculously good record 🙂

cynic-al - Member
LOLs at tom.

bTW a lot of U2 is really badly recorded (over-compressed) - in order to sound good in cars IIRC.

this is true of pretty much all records recorded in the last 15 years or so

DNM

Ooooh, DNM, my boss is trying to get rid of his PA3 as he is upgrading to a PA3S and I am sorely tempted to take it off his hands. for the cash though I am not sure it will be that much better than my Meridian.

Veeeery tempting though.

Soul Bossa Nova by Quincy Jones. Really parpy brass to stretch the legs of a speaker.

Track one on this CD is actually pretty good:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evanescence/e/B000APR0NU/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_2?qid=1296061763&sr=8-2

I also reckon "I've had the time of my life" by Jennifer Warnes and Bill Medley might be good as I thought I had my system set up ok and then the wife (without my permission) put this on and it sounded awful, leading me to realise there was somthing wrong.

You really need a variety as you don't want a system that is only good at one type of music.

Modern stuff is more compressed, so often the older recordings can be better.

For a more "live" sound, Fugazi stuff tends to have nice sounding production. I love the drum kit/bass sounds on 13 Songs and Red Medicine.

Surely you just take a selection of your favourite CDs? - and if they sound better on the new system then Bobs 'ya mothers brother!

I'm looking at NAIM Uniti with maybe NAIM n-SATs or cheaper Kefs
....awaits deluge of alternative advice.

Light and Day by The Polyphonic Spree - tons of layers and everything from high to low frequencies.

Standard test is In the Air Tonight though 🙂

My dad has a Naim Uniti and it is a cracking little system. The DAC in it is particularly good if you have a variety of external digital inputs. Enjoy!

Surely you just take a selection of your favourite CDs? - and if they sound better on the new system then Bobs 'ya mothers brother!

Agreed. The whole "test tracks" thing harks back to the idea that there can be objective perfection in hifi. There isn't. It's just the boxes that play your favourite music in a way that appeals to you.

I have usually taken no more than four or five CDs, each with a preferred track.

Naim is good, and has an established house sound, but don't fall into the whole Naim upgraditis nonsense. It's way more expensive than bikes....

Oh, and as it's Naim, if the salesman starts tapping his foot, get up and walk out. I thought it was a myth until I had it happen to me...

I imagine it's best to make comparisons using music you are familiar with and are likely to play on the equipment.

Corrrr-ectamundo.

Welcome to NAIM. You are about to elevate your quality of life. 😀

I would take both well recorded and not so well recorded CDs.

My reason being is that if the set up you buy only sounds great with well-recorded CDs, but not so hot with the rest then you are only going to listen to your well recorded stuff going forward.

Oh, and as it's Naim, if the salesman starts tapping his foot, get up and walk out. I thought it was a myth until I had it happen to me...

Sounds interesting but not sure I understand, can you explain please?

Assuming you are testing hi-fi with a view to buying it and listening to it, surely all you need is a cross-section of the stuff you actually enjoy listening to. If you like the Stones but all your old Stones CDs sound naff on a "good" hi-fi, then don't buy that hi-fi.

I've made this mistake myself, searching out that "well produced" recording that actually I'll rarely listen to, rather than taking the poorly produced stuff I like to listen to

Might sound great in the shop, in their "listening booth".

But will it sound good in your "space"?

SB

Sounds interesting but not sure I understand, can you explain please?

It was said that salesmen of Naim and Linn kit (as the main proponents of the "flat earth" sound) would seek to accentuate the famed rhythm and timing of the kit by sitting next to you tapping their foot as you listened.

I thought it was a myth, until I auditioned a faily simple Cd5/Nait5/Quad 11L (I have 21Ls) set up, and the salesman sat with his leg stretched right into my line of sight and tapped his foot vigorously at every track. 👿

Gotcha. Yeah, I would have left too.

Surely you just take a selection of your favourite CDs? - and if they sound better on the new system then Bobs 'ya mothers brother!

I agree, take some music your currently enjoying, and turn it up loud. If you have to 'try' to hear if you like it, don't buy it.

Dealers make subtle comments and tap their feet more vigorously when demoing the more expensive options and if your not careful, you can convince yourself the differences are greater then they are. This is especially true for the brands which try to put you on the upgrade ladder. If you can't hear much of a difference, then there ain't much of a difference.

It's also important to try some less well recorded material, it's no good having a Hi-Fi which only sounds good with well produced material. This is especially true for the brands which have a brightish tonal balance 😉

Good luck!

Damn! Try again.

Whatever CD. Whatever system.

You need to hear it where you are gonna listen to it before you buy.

SB

It was said that salesmen of Naim and Linn kit (as the main proponents of the "flat earth" sound) would seek to accentuate the famed rhythm and timing of the kit by sitting next to you tapping their foot as you listened.

Bloody hell..that's spooky...posted at the same time!

If you can, do a blind test between the systems. I did and to the salesman's annoyance consistently picked the cheaper system as sounding "better" to me.

accentuate the famed rhythm and timing of the kit

What does this even mean? Surely the rhythm and timing is defined by the music that has been recorded, not the stuff it's played through?

Take your 10 most listened to albums, forget production values and forget all the hifi guff you read about. If you like how the music sounds then it sounds good.

I quite like naim stuff but you'd be wise to listen to lots of other stuff too. The naim upgade path brings madness and despair.

My take on hifi these days is a good source and a decent amp are a given but it's the speakers that make the thing sing and have to work with your room. Changing amps from one that retails at 4k to a little nait 5 made hardly any difference, sticking in a pair of martin logans blew me away. I'm currently using a 300 pound amp to drive very expensive speakers and its works fine and sounds better.

Oddly enough good hifi is a great leveller it seems to make shite old record sound decent and better ones sound fantastic.

What does this even mean? Surely the rhythm and timing is defined by the music that has been recorded, not the stuff it's played through?

Not worth getting involved with....

But, essentially, Naimees (as Naim adherents are called) will tell you that a condom with a hole through the end is better than industry standard. And that Naim kit delivers the natural timing and rhythm of the music so much better. Yes, really, they do.

There's a reason why all this weirdness gets called "flat earth".... 😐

It means that some British hifi manufactures make/made hifi gear with a very bright tonal balance which emphasises the transients. They 'educated' their customer base that timing was everything and everything else was 'boring'.

They combined it with clearly laid out upgrade paths and clever marketing, so if you thought your hifi was bright, you might need another power supply/power amp/go active/better CD player to give it that final tweak.

Basically, sell a flawed product, but market it well and make a killing on the upgrades 😉

haha, I see. Think I'll stick to simple studio monitors!

Naim systems can be quite troubling because of this upgrade route, for instance

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-UfRWaApMmgybPUzx1PrhWW3cNEFskT8dcD_9IJxgFJ4Ibx30qw [/img]

Think I'll stick to simple studio monitors!

Now that's good thinking. If you really want an upgrade, a modest amount of acoustic treatment will do far more. The picture joolsburger posted sums it up....a fortune on hifi and supports with make no difference and no room treatment. How did the dealer allow that to happen?

Take vinyl, it sounds better.

Doesn't it?

[i]Any informed comment would be gratefully received.[/i]

Ha!

Fleetwood Mac Rumours on vinyl.
Paul Simon's Graceland on CD but it MUST be the 1986 version.
Dire Straits Love Over Gold on either vinyl(180gr) or CD
Police Syncronicity on vinyl (180gr)
Ry Cooder Bop Till You Drop on CD

I always used to listen to:
- Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
- Something classical to hear stereo placement
- Couple of things I'm currently into.
Dont' ask me why Tom Petty, I think probably because of the pared down production and quite accoustic nature. After that it became a bit of a superstition.

And take it home to listen if possible, your room will probably make the biggest difference.

I've always found Playing Dead by Bjork has proved to be a good test of sound equipment.

Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon.

Just play the whole album 😉

though I am not sure it will be that much better than my Meridian

A HA HA HAH AH HAH

Best one for a while 😉

As others have said, take some music you know well.

I usually take some Peter Gabriel which tends to sound better and better as you listen on more expensive systems.

Expect a lot of modern music to still sound compressed.

Maybe take something you've never really liked as well.

Alison Krauss and Union Station - Baby, now that I've found you
Slade - How does it feel
Motorhead - Ace of Spades
Pat Benatar - Shadows of the night
The Alarm - The Deceiver
Andy Williams - Happy Heart
Band of Horses - The Funeral
Blondie - Call Me

My recommendation is listen to the music with your feet.

If your feet aren't tapping involuntarily when listening to music played on an all NAIM system (or all NAIM bar the standard recommended sets of speakers that go well with NAIM), then there is something wrong IMO.

Seriously, I am half serious. NAIM should have your feet tapping and wanting to get up to dance, with a caveat regarding Bach etc, then it may be more of an emotional flow.

I've got a Uniti and also now a Qute as well. The Uniti runs through a set of Rega RS5s and the Qute is attached to some mission m35's which also do TV duties. I love my Uniti's - mainly the sound quality of the UNiti/RS5s is stunning and the Qute is just so damn useful - we have the Uniti in the 'other' tv-less lounge and the qute in the kitchen/lounge area. Love it, iRadio, uPNP from an iMac with lossless library running DBPowerAmp to stream - works perfectly and sounds incredible. I'm sure there are better more expensive systems but i get all my Naim kit at cost and this fitted my requirements for streaming media and good quality well made stuff. The range and cost of the kit is eye watering though.

One cd that auditions stuff quite well is Turin Brakes The Optimist - it is very very well recorded.

Obviously you should take music you love, in a variety of styles. I often use fairly complex pieces to see if its easy to pull out the strands. In contrast, a solo recording of an instrument you like is helpful. Would agree that badly recorded material is a must.

Most importantly, don't try to work too hard at detecting differences. Listening to music is supposed to be fun. If you find the demo very enjoyable then that's good. If it feels like hard work you should listen to something else.

Stuff you like, but also stuff you know. For me, two amongst many would be:-

K&D Sessions, Kruder and Dorfmeister
Dummy, Portishead

Yes, I am stuck in the 90s. They don't make stuff like that anymore 🙂

I found (of all things!) Kate Bush to be quite testing for hifi stuff, she has a hell of a voice and it may highlight any sibilance (which really grips my s*it) as well as all your favourite stuff of course!

I find this track tells me a lot about the bass on a system. Cheap tinny radio can make it sound OK sometimes, and on a good system it will amaze you, but lots of systems in between just turn it to mush. Fantastic track anyway.

i'm another 'take the music you like, not what you think you should play'.
i went to listen to my 1-box system ( that i shan't name ) at an audio place. sounded shite. kept wanting the bass to be turned up, but just couldn't wind it up far enough, no matter what i did with the controls or the speaker positions. the nice man suggested that the cds i was listening to didn't have very high production values. i explained that this was the sort of music i enjoy, and wanted to enjoy on my new sound system. if that new sound system couldn't make this stuff sound nice, i wasn't going to buy it, no matter how well it sounded with something else with 'proper' production.
another set of speakers later - sold. been very happy with it for 10 years.

1. Something with a decently recorded double/acoustic bass is always good for sorting the wheat from the chaff - Astral Weeks or Solid Air for example. Amazing how many 'posh' systems can't reproduce a double bass.

2. Something simple with a well recorded vocal - if this sounds 'odd' then you know the tonal balance is off.

3. Something rhythmically complex - jazz, Little Feat, Beefheart etc - can you still hear the individual instruments and place them spatially in the mix?

4. Something you find over bright and almost unlistenable on your current system - remastered Zappa, something like that. Does sound any better?

Never mind the foot tapping, what used to drive me mad was turning up the volume when the expensive gear was being auditioned. Grrr 👿

Oh, don't go in with expectations about what you 'should' like because it gets raved about in the mags - I always felt slightly troubled that I preferred the unfashionable Exposure, Creek, Rega and Pink Triangle stuff to the more hyped Naim, NAD, Linn and Mission.
The power of advertising has a lot to answer for 🙂

Something with as big a dynamic range as possible.

When I was a test engineer for Arcam ( a good few years ago now) we used a Philips test disc that had all sorts on it, ranging from very boomy spoken word to incrediably dynamic and detailed classical recordings.

Also, bear in mind (as some have said) that hi-fi is very subjective and unlike the world of studio equipement for example, where linearity of response is king.

#

My dissertation was very nearly about the ideal linear response of spherical speaker inclosures.. they would have sounded nice in theory but making a rigid sphere of sufficient density isn't easy... why the flip did I go into computing and not take up that research degree at York, mutter, grumble, moan

#end rant

I love the idea of shiny HiFi kit, but since I'm deaf in one ear and therefore don't hear in Stereo, I don't see the point.......

If your feet aren't tapping involuntarily when listening to music played on an all NAIM system (or all NAIM bar the standard recommended sets of speakers that go well with NAIM), then there is something wrong IMO.

If your feet aren't tapping its more likely that the music is shit rather than the system it's coming out of 🙂

I've just had a thought.
If you don't actually know what music you like, why get a fancy, expensive hi-fi??
Serious question!

I always go for something by Michael Jackson, the production on his stuff is consistently awesome

That'll be down to Quincey Jones, the most successful and best recording artist of all time!

"Hell Freezes Over" by the Eagles.

"Hotel Califonia" having the ultimate intro with acoustic guitar and thundering bass drum. A far far better recording than the original!

A quality recording of a standard to which other audio engineers should aspire to!

You need to get a variety of material - acoustic, classical and modern as well as recordings that have proper deep bass - the stuff you can feel more than hear.

The problem I find with owning a high end hifi is the sheer disappointment when loadingh up a mediocre recording (of which there are too many). Only a handful of CD's do the system and the artist justice, which is really annoying when the content is great.

Well, I've always thought for bass, Stone Roses - Fool's Gold is a good one as the bass line goes very deep to the point where lots of speakers and low-powered amplifiers seem to struggle.

As for a recent album that's appallingly recorded (to my ears on my Denon-Teac CD/DAC, Arcam amp and Castle speakers) - Arcade Fire's newest offering. Sounds like it's been recorded at 128 kbps. No such issues with their earlier stuff though.

When I eventually get round to testing some newer stuff though, I don't doubt that I'll be bringing along some Floyd. I reckon Jeff Buckley is probably a good shout too for subtleties.

EDIT: And Hotel California on heavyweight vinyl.... 😉

The best Hifi I ever heard was at a place called Walrus in central london. High End TT, Lavardin Amp and some Harbeths I think the key was how they had the speakers positioned though I remember that it was just beyond anything I thought hi fi could actually do.

I firmly believe that 5k badly set up will be outperformed by 1k set up optimally. There are some good tips on the Audio Physics website for set up.

Also, if you're planning to play MP3s through it, take your MP3 player and see what it sound slike.

My distinctly average kit from 15 years ago (all Arcam, Quad speakers) makes my iPod sound dreadful (thick, muddy bass) and really shows the limitations of compressed audio replayed through a headphone socket.

Basshunter

HTH

Oh, and the best system I've heard wasn't the £10k of hardware through the £25k Dali speakers that killed the life out of RATM Bombtrack, but a Creek CD and amp into small Epos speakers.

Realistic, neat and timed beautifully.

People like Creek, Sugden, Rega - not flashy, certainly not lifestyule looking but seem to do the job of playing music well very nicely.

I firmly believe that 5k badly set up will be outperformed by 1k set up optimally.

Price is no guarantee of good sound. I listened to a Krell and some Cabasse speakers on very expensive stands. Suffice it to say this £30k system sounded thin and flat. Some hifi snobs would describe the sound as detailed, but I thought it sounded very unatural and my ears were tiring after 5 minutes. Different material revealed the same traits.

Just because stuff is uber expensive does not mean it will be better. My 1994 £3.5k's worth of kit sounds way more natuaral and realistic than this demo system did.

Using the correct interconnects, speaker cables, stands and getting the room right is the second half of the battle. The first half is about good component matching. You need to take advice from experts and work out which kit is known to partner well.

Kate Bush and Bjork are good calls.

I have found that Massive Attack (Angel) is fantastic at displaying bass competency. Damien Rice (9 Crimes) is excellent for vocals and piano reproduction. Also Nitin Sawnhney produces some lovely layered pieces.

One objective of reviewing a HiFi is to understand if it is more 'revealing' as far as the detail and subtleties of he music are concerned, so whilst it is a good idea to audition music that you know well, it's also important to have a fair idea that there are subtleties to be revealed 😀

This:

I love the idea of shiny HiFi kit, but since I'm deaf in one ear and therefore don't hear in Stereo, I don't see the point.......

😥 tinnitus in my case 😥

I always take something that sounds nasty on crap equipment but that I like e.g. Radiohead OK Computer which was unlistenable on a Rega/Cyrus system I auditioned a few years ago. Messy, horrible, all over the place - whereas on a better system you can hear every instrument properly. Enjoy...

Using the correct interconnects, speaker cables, stands and getting the room right is the second half of the battle. The first half is about good component matching. You need to take advice from experts and work out which kit is known to partner well.

You do all realise that domestic hi-fi is fundamentally flawed in it's design?

Some manufacturers seem to go to great lengths to create decent products within the boundaries of the excepted "norm" for hifi, others seem to charge crazy money for naff all.

My 2p's worth is to check out active speakers with a digital input. It's what studios have done for years and it makes so much more sense to have a speaker crossover working millivolts not dozens/hundreds of volts. It also makes far more sense to have amplifier boards tuned specifically to the individual drivers they control.

Anyway, all this talk of hifi has made me want a new one 🙁

+1, but if you're going to do that, spell it right when you recommend it. 😉 😀

iPod sound dreadful

AFAIK iPods have notoriously bad sounding headphone amps, worse than many other mp3 players.

I understand the pain that comes with having flat sounding speakers and listening to stuff that's badly produced or encoded. When I got my monitors I had to actually buy the cds as many of the mp3s I'd downloaded sounded so awful. I've noticed Amazon mp3 downloads being particularly crap. LAME MP3 at 320kbps sounds near enough the same as the original wavs to me though.

i would take a wide variety of music you enjoy. There's no point of demoing a system with music you won't listen to at home. You're wanting a bunch of electronics to play the music you enjoy on, not to make clear noises!

Also, I would ask for a home demo for a week.

As I'm also stuck in the 90's I'd say blue lines by Massive attack should have everything you need to test the mettle of a hifi system.

I do like to take the track "Superpreadtors" from the boxed set and see if it makes any of the components catch fire or melt too.

80's Nad amp, 70's Warfedale speakers, and a 2004 Zune sounds freaking great to me. - There is no susbtitute for cubic centimetres.

Hi, I don't know if you've already had this demo but a few here have touched upon the right way to choose demo tunes: Listen to your favourite cd's, the music you will listen to when you get it home.

Sounds obvious but what's the point in buying a hifi system because it sounds great with, I dunno, Kraftwerk if you only listen to, say, Slipknot?!!

I have a Rega Saturn feeding a Naim Nait 5i and I think it sounds great with everything, although the speakers (Jamo Concert 8's) make the system IMHO. Naim stuff is good but it's not the only brand out there!

Good luck!

Everything in its right place from the Radiohead album Kid A

that will tell you all you need to know.

Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots parts 1 and 2 from the Flaming Lips album of the same name.

Donald Fagen [i]The Nightfly[/i] is a stunningly well produced and recorded album. I've got a.special vinyl pressing from the Masterdisc masters that was pressed up for B&W after their boss heard it, and wanted it as a demo for retailers. I used to work Saturdays in a hifi shop. Still got my Logic DM101/Zeta/AudioTechnica MC turntable. Another good album would be [i]Driftwood[/i], by Eddie Reader. Listening to it at the moment, and there's an acoustic drum on the first track, [i]Old Soul[/i], that really moves air, fantastic recording. Paul Simon's [i]Hearts and Bones[/i] is also a fabulous recording, and Peter Gabriel 4, in particular [i]San Jacinto[/i], can get the speaker cones moving around. Laurie Anderson's [i]Mister Heartbreak[/i] is a lovely recording, one track, [i]Gravity's Angel[/i], has some low-frequency bass that is more felt than heard, just air pressure on your eardrums. My UE Studio monitors on my iPhone pick it up, but you need pretty good speakers to hear it. There's a passage on Rachmaninov's [i]Symphonic Dances[/i] that I used to use, that was really quiet, then a sudden crescendo would really make people jump, and was a good speaker/amp tester, lesser set-ups would have bass cones popping like mad.

The best Hifi I ever heard was at a place called Walrus in central london

Les at Walrus really knows his stuff and won't lead you wrong.

What Harbeths were they - I like the M30s quite a bit but you need the room, otherwise I am an LS3/5a fan, although a bit modded.

The room and placement of the speakers in the room makes a huge difference to the sound, which is why something that sounded good at the hifi shop might not necessarily sound good at home.

Of course if hi fi nerds had girlfriends they wouldn't be able to position their speaks optimally and the whole industry would be pointless.

I've never 'auditioned' high end stuff but when I was buying a small system for the lounge a year or two back was amazed by the difference a different set of speakers made - and it wasn't a day and night price difference either.

I just used stuff I normally listen to; some Pulp, some classical something acousticey, some Faithless.

Sadly since having it my girls have also decided they like music and I really should have had the foresight to audition it with the Lazytown soundtrack and Cheryl Cole.