OP’s criteria doesn’t compute for me for a number of reasons.

With a budget of £60k I would be getting a Caterham 420r and using the rest to buy/lease a practical 2ltr estate, because at no point will/should OP be using 4.0 sec 0-60 with dogs in the car.

Besides the new Golf R appears to be getting bad ish reviews, and still a bit dull to drive. Speed is not everything

because at no point will/should OP be using 4.0 sec 0-60 with dogs in the car.

Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won’t use all of the acceleration!

Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won’t use all of the acceleration!

That’s my point, the fact is that cars that can get dogs in to start with are a bit dull to drive

Some like a BMW 340i Touring is incredibly rapid, but ultimately quite dull to drive in the scheme of things, certainly if 0-60 in 6 seconds doesn’t cut it.

Besides the new Golf R appears to be getting bad ish reviews, and still a bit dull to drive.

What reviews have you seen with that? Pretty much everything I’ve seen has said it’s a big step up performance wise. There’s a few comments on the interior being a little low rent in the back, and low down plastics.

Ive seen most reviews, including the foreign language ones, and it’s all positive. I think Rory didn’t like it much, because of the touch buttons. And that’s totally fair.

Perhaps when he has the dogs in the car he won’t use all of the acceleration!

That’s my point, the fact is that cars that can get dogs in to start with are a bit dull to drive

Some like a BMW 340i Touring is incredibly rapid, but ultimately quite dull to drive in the scheme of things, certainly if 0-60 in 6 seconds doesn’t cut it.

I mean, sure. I don’t redline it or floor my car when the dogs are in it. Much like I don’t do 70 going through a 20.

Is BMW 340 is boring and heavy.

Caterham? No thanks. Not my style. I couldn’t imagine driving to work in one either.

0-60 is mainly irrelevant

30 to 70 is probably a better marker.

Do you want a revvy thing or a big load of torque

Also, this thread definitely needs photos.

^ I’m sure this is what some folk like. But not for me.

My benchmark on fun, but practical.

I should say, it needs to be practical as both me and my wife ride. And if one takes the van for riding, then the other will need a vehicle to take the dogs.

Estates are out, I had a 3 series BMW estate. Capable. Comfortable. Uninteresting.

0-60 is mainly irrelevant

30 to 70 is probably a better marker.

Do you want a revvy thing or a big load of torque

Decent power throughout the range please ☺️

Country roads, probably 15-60.

Get a track car if you want fast and something practical to do your commute and dog duties. Less chance of killing someone this way, like a cyclist as you accelerate in 4 seconds 0-60 out of a corner on a public road.

The RS6 Plus-One linked to earlier.

Get a track car if you want fast and something practical to do your commute and dog duties. Less chance of killing someone this way, like a cyclist as you accelerate in 4 seconds 0-60 out of a corner on a public road.

Thanks. I’m a very considerate driver. Always loads of space for cyclists and horses. Regardless of what I drive. Having lost a mate who was hit by a car, I’m more than aware of other road users.

Alfa suggestions from earlier.

View post on imgur.com

View post on imgur.com

And then a perfectly adequate fast normal car for day to day.

Edit – dam just realised that none of this incredibly good cars do 0-60 in 4 seconds, they must be crap 😂

128ti that Quagmire suggested

GR Yaris – that few have suggested. They’re on pre-order for 2022 as they’re so popular. The Lichfield version looks decent, the interior looks a bit drab, and I’d have thought (though happy to be found wrong!) that it isn’t an ideal daily driver.

I’d have thought (though happy to be found wrong!) that it isn’t an ideal daily driver.

I thought it was as it’s quiet car, and complient. The boot probably won’t get 2 dogs in as it’s very sloped

0-60 in greater than 5 seconds, but certainly more ackin to the type of handling you appear to like ie completely planted, very little oversteer and more understeer

completely planted, very little oversteer

Hey the Mk8 Golf has torque vectoring, and a drift mode! 🙂

The Yaris boot does look a little small, fine for one of the pooches – but I think both would be a bit squished!

Feel you’ve kind of already boxed yourself into a corner and now have s choice of

Golf R
Audi s3
Audi rs3
BMW m something m2??
Mercedes amg A series ??

Just get the one you can get quickest in the spec you want. What colour are you going for? That’s the important bit.

What colour are you going for? That’s the important bit.

The Golf R only has Black, White or Blue. So, there’s only actually one colour choice.

Audi S3….. a bit dull to drive, the RS3 is a different story – but you can’t buy a new one at the moment 🙁

M2 Comp, again not being made new at the moment.

AMG A45 is a good shout.

From sensible to..

Ahhhh my retinas!

Feel you’ve kind of already boxed yourself into a corner

Yeah, that’s why I ended up asking on here for inspiration!

Buying new is such a luxury as these cars lose 70% of their value in three years. Great if you have an income to not worry about it, but if it was me, I’d spend £30k on an RS4 and invest the rest in Bitcoin.

You’re guaranteed to lose £30k on a new car and could lose a lot on Bitcoin, but you could have enough to buy a house if things continue like they are.

That yellow merc looks fun, mercs are always in boring colours.

Only other brands that will have that kind of acceleration are Alfa and jag, don’t think the later makes a hot hatch.

Won’t the golf r be exactly the same as a s3, is it not the same car in different body?

Which ever VAG car you go for they are always hugely competent fast and slightly dull.

Look at new Seat Cupra too if you value speed over fun

A mate has an r 7.5 and to be honest it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.
Having been in that and my mazda 3 which has a lovely chassis feel i would rather have the mazda but would like more power.
Unless you are doing track days these cars are far more capable than the roads allow a you will need to be doing 80-90 on b roads before the car starts to feel like it is anywhere near the limit. At that speed good luck….
I want a nomad personally and will keep my mazda for sensible options

You’re guaranteed to lose £30k on a new car

In 3 years my i30N has lost £5k from me driving it off the forecourt.

Bitcoin, but you could have enough to buy a house if things continue like they are.

I also invest. This is about buying a car.

Which ever VAG car you go for they are always hugely competent fast and slightly dull.

A mate has an r 7.5 and to be honest it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.

Ah, some VAG bashing. I’ll have a look at that Harry’s review – cheers buddy. That’ll be the first one I’ve seen that doesn’t have the reviewer grinning when driving the mk8.

Oh, and Volkswizard. He hates the mk8 R. But he bought a Clubsport.

The telling reviews are the ones by owners of the 7/7.5. I do agree though, the 7 r is pretty competently boring!

My Leon Cupra 4drive is basically a Mk7.5 Golf R in disguise….not sure about availability of the new model but it’s very practical, very rapid and surprisingly economical when needed. The standard adjustable dampers are brilliant.

A mate who drives fast pursuit cars reckons the M140i/340i (which was my alternative) are too much of a liability in the wet without an aftermarket LSD.

I didn’t overly enjoy my Cupra initially but I’ve got used to the paddle gearshift which improves things massively. And disabled the awful soundaktor!

I’m enjoying my Cupra more and more as it loosens up, but suspect I’ll get a smaller hot hatch next, to run alongside a van, maybe i30N or similar.

That Harry’s review of the Golf R… He likes it, he talks about responsiveness, chassis dynamics etc. He says the GTi is pointless with this mark. The only thing he didn’t like was the touchscreens.

I don’t see that as a bad review.

Obviously its not a Caterham, but it’ll be better when it’s cold outside and you wanna stay toasty warm. 😆

A mate who drives fast pursuit cars reckons the M140i/340i

My mate with a m240i said the same, it’s terrifying in the wet, just can’t get the power down at all.

Yup, What I like is the Cupra is quite stealthy and an amazingly capable point-to-point wagon on windy A & B roads, 99% of my driving. Yes, I’d love to have another 6cyl soundtrack (still keeping my 325i for that) with possibly more performance, but it wouldn’t be any quicker in the real world.

Am not bashing the golf, just for me it is too competent to make it fun at road speeds that are not going to get you in deep shit.
Same applies to loads of others such as the cupra etc.

DRIFFFFFFRRRRTTTTT MOOOOODDDDDDE.

lol. I totally get what you mean. The i30N is a petty perfect car for UK B roads. The most power you’d want through the front wheels, and a decent slip diff.

It used to be a bargain too, £25k you could get one new for. The new one is now £35k.

And all you get for the £10k extra over the old one is more plastic on the bumper, sightly different dials, and a front end that looks like a Seat Ibiza. Weird.

don’t see that as a bad review.

No definitely not a bad review, but at 15 mins he says the steering just weights up in a bend, that doesn’t make for an exciting car because in essence you are guessing what grip you are going to get. He then goes on to say it’s a bit dull at normal speeds ie any speed you can drive it on a road.

People who tend to like VAG cars like their kicks from straight line speed and a car that drives for them in a dull predictable way. It’s not VAG bashing just different things for different people

Hmm. I’m assuming that’s the progressive steering. Don’t lots of cars have that as standard? So it’s light around town, and then heavier when you’re pushing on a bit?

I’ve not driven the Golf R so can’t comment, but no, it’s a lack of feel, precision, dynamics, call it what you like.

My BMW 330 does it. You turn in but the steering doesn’t have enough feeling so you have to wait for the car to settle in to the bend for it to tell you what it’s doing ie whether it’s going to grip or not, now 99% of the time mega grippy moderns cars will grip but they just don’t communicate that they will.

Get in a car that does communicate through the steering and the driving experience is night and day different (like any of those cars I picture above) . If you are used to a modern car with avg handling you could argue that getting in a car with good turn in steering makes it nervous and too sensitive.

Again each to their own and to some degree what you are used to

I’d be looking at something with a 3.0i diesel, mainly based on they’ve the go of a petrol but using far, far less fuel than an equivalently driven petrol car. My 435d did 40mpg no matter how hard I drove it (90 mile round-trip commute, pre Covid), whereas a friend with a 340i barely got half that. No point just pi55ing money away for the sake of it – I’ve also had V8’s so paid for this first hand.

Although if you want the ability to really ‘make progress’ on your commute, you need a motorbike. Nothing comes close, especially in the ability to overtake literally anywhere.

And maybe with a motorbike the 3 hour commute becomes 2 hours? I use to get from outer Buckinghamshire into Westminster in under an hour.

And when you want to take the dogs, you’ve the Transit.

Remember though, every year spent paying for overly expensive cars is one less year you could be retired.

it only feels like fun on b roads when you are doing speeds way higher than is clever.

Isn’t that the case for any car? Modern cars are all so competent that within the speed limits it is not really that easy to get any enjoyment.
If you ignore the speed limits, slide the car around etc then fair enough you will have more fun. I used to drive like that when I was 20 on a quiet early Sunday morning 30 years ago but now see it as very irresponsible due to increased traffic and having grown up.

Agreed, to me a fun car is where you can feel the road and actually get to respond to it rather than feeling like the car is doing everything and not even trying.
Poor English and phrasing, but i think i would prefer something that has a great chassis and grip and maybe lower power so you actually have to work at keeping the car going well rather than a huge number of drivers in overpowered cars who brake stupidly hard for corners then have to bury the accelerator to get back up to speed, rather than trying to carry speed round corners

Volvo V70R, tune the tits off it.

2nd hand Nissan GTR.

Rapid, reasonably practical. Only downside is it might be a bit bulky for really tight B-roads