(Following on from here;
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/buying-a-second-hand-car-dos-and-donts)

Hi all,

So my Focus is on it’s last legs (1999, 1.6, 3dr, Zetec, 112k on clock, quite a few problems), so looking to replace it.

Problem is that while I’m looking at some fairly standard options (Golf, Civic etc), there must be loads of cars I’ve not thought of which are decent.

Budget is a bit of a toughy, I’d really rather not spend more than £3k, but can maybe stretch to 4k if it’s something really nice.
Economy and reliabilty/cost of maintenance, and cost to insure, are of course important. I’m a Mech Eng student so have access to workshop, so a bit of work every now and then, but nothing taking the mick.
Something vaguely nice to drive/be in would be great, but maybe not realistic.
Something with between 40 and 60k on the clock would be good.
Decent sized for bikes/people.

So currently looking at Mk 1.5 and Mk2 Focii, 04ish Civics and Golfs, 06ish Mazda3s (pushing the budget but had a look at one today and liked it).
Mk 6 Fiesta is too small, Mk7 is too expensive.
Clios, Polos etc etc are too small.

How about Toyotas? Mazdas (not really thought about them before today)? Seats? Skodas?

Anything to avoid or sounds suitable Any thoughts would be great.

Ta, Duane.

Toyota corolla are reliable and boring. Driven by reliable and boring people. Good second hand cars IMO (we have a pool 54 plate pool car at work with 120,000 miles on it that has been impeccably reliable)

Edit: think it’s a 1.5 diesel?

I drive a Toyota Corolla 2005 1.6 petrol auto … nothing spectacular and definitely not a babe magnet but you can always custom it if you want as there are plenty of after market kits for it.

Personally, I would either buy a Toyota or Skoda …

What size of bike or bikes are you carrying to make a fiesta too small? how many bikes do you need to carry?

The only thing uncooler than a Corolla?

A modded & body-kitted corolla 😀

I have one of these.

You can get a bike in the back without removing the wheels.

I would go younger, but high mileage. 100 k is really not that much on a car these days. Would much rather have a 4 year old car with 80k than a 8year old car with 40k.
My last volvo got to 175000 without problembefore i sold it.
Any vag group car (skoda,audi,vw,seat) will have fairly solid mechanicals.
Honda are good, as are toyota.
I dont rate any french car or vauxhall or ford, but thats possibly just snobbery and the memory of my last fiesta which was built to a very tight budget from components clearly designed to last just past the warranty.
If your mileage is low, then consider a bigger car with a small engine. These are often cheaper than the clios and polos of this world as no one wants a 5 year old low spec audi or passat.
I always tend to buy 5 year old cars with as many optional extras fitted as ii can find.

berlingo

Don’t buy anything French or Italian.

Marginally outdated thinking there don’t you think?

Had a fiesta courtesy car last week & hated it couldn’t wait to give it back, what about Seat Leon or something, perhaps a Peugeot 206/7 good reliable cars.

Stay away from old French cars. Electrical reliability on them is poor.

How many of the anti-French car posters has owned one? My 20-year-old Peugeot is on the original electrics apart from the battery, windscreen washer pump, heater motor and a few bulbs. The outside temperature and clock don’t light up. I will admit to a moment of trepidation each time I press a window switch but so far so good.

I had a 1989 Citroen ax. Electrics were dire. Switching to full beam used to turn off the lights altogether in wet weather. Garage couldn’t work out what was wrong.

Ergo all French electrics since 1989 are inherently poor. Case closed. HTH 😉

My brothers megane scenic had electrical problems and now the engine has died at 80k miles.

Skoda Octavia’s a world beater. Hatchback has lots of space and estate even more. Most reliable of all the VAG cars (yes, including Audi) and good to drive. See the driver surveys.

Honda and Toyota are mega-reliable, but are mostly boring to drive.

Me? I drive a Saab 9-3 wagon. Emotional attachment to cars which were wonderful until GM got their grubby hands on them!

I brought a Celica, it’s been extremely reliable, ok on MPG and is really nice to drive. You can get bikes in the back pretty easy the load area is nice and wide with a handy tray that holds peddals in place to stop bikes jumping about. Most have full leather interior and look a lot more expensive than they are. You can pick one up for a grand or two and have a bit of budget left over for tax/insurance. Bit of a Barry boy image but doesn’t bother me.

My fiancé had a peugeot, wouldn’t buy another.

How many of the anti-French car posters has owned one?

My Megane Scenic (6 years old) has been a pain, wouldn’t get another one. Nice to drive when it’s working, though.

For 2-3k there is no such thing as a sure bet. Plenty of dogs of all makes and models. Set your budget in auto trader and just see what comes up locally.

Not all French cars a rubbish. I bought a Citroen C5 diesel estate off here with 60k on the clock three years ago. I’ve added another 40k. No issues other than a couple of headlamp bulbs and an alternator pulley.

Quick question/hijack: if you are a mechanic, what brand of car do you prefer to service? When i service my bike, i really appreciate the small details which make the job easier. It must be the same for them.

Not a professional mechanic, but do all my own and a lot for friends.
Volvos are nice build, its the little things like quality fittings and screws that dont rust.
My Audi a2 is well put together, but the steel fittings are made of cheese and rust like hell.
Fords are the worst I have seen for having beauty that only goes skin deep. The cars I hate are ones built by accountants not engineers, Fords accountants clearly overrule the engineers.

Currently own a megane a total pile of plop,and totally numb to drive ,had countless problems with it,both mechanical and electrical,latest been the electric window gremlins.AVOID!!!
Although had a citroen zx it was top of range 16v sport model ,loved that car,so comfy to drive and fast,and cornered like it was on rails.had it for 7years ,with a replacement starter motor ,that was the only breakdown.

Marginally outdated thinking there don’t you think?

Seems not…

worked out by 3 people saying they have had lemons? conclusive!!

Why not just spend the money getting your Focus sorted? 112k is hardly over the hill (I have two late nineties Audi A4s with over 210k on the clock and running fine), and better the devil you know and all that..

My 306 td estate has done 50k miles over about 3 years for me so far, for a total outlay of about a grand. Everything still works, although the drivers seat is starting to get a bit threadbare… (including purchase price, excluding fuel, tax and insurance.)

Old Peugeot/Citroen diesels are brill.

worked out by 3 people saying they have had lemons? conclusive!!

And the rest of the country.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-reviews/renault/megane/23846/page/1/sort/ratingasc

Vauxhall vivas or hillman hunters

For 2-3k there is no such thing as a sure bet. Plenty of dogs of all makes and models. Set your budget in auto trader and just see what comes up locally.

This is good advice.

I will add to it to ignore most of the other advice above (well all the negative advice about X, Y or Z being crap because of someone’s outdated prejudice) and sit down and do your research and the sums…

All cars in the £2k-£3k bracket are going to need money spending on them in the near future. It is how much money that they will need spending is the thing you want to limit… You can buy an E36 BMW M3 for that kind of money these days, but I’d suggest you don’t, cos not only is it likely to have not been looked after very well at that price, it is likely to need at least a camchain service (£1200 or so) very soon if not immediately, and probably the same again spending on other bits just to keep it roadworthy by the time of the next MOT!

By contrast, if you buy a boringly reliable small car with full service history, it is likely to need much less spending on it.

Look at the cost of spares, and work too. My old Audi had a shocker which I hadn’t factored into when I bought it. It was going to need a new cambelt at the next service. OK, not too bad, a couple of hundred quid job you might think… Except it was a V6 TDi, 8 hours of labour and £500 worth of parts for the job to be done!!! You learn from your mistkes…

Fords (like them or lump them) are generally very good for spares prices. Because they’ve been designed by accountants not engineers (CHB up there isn’t wrong!) things are usually ridiculously cheap for them when compared to other similar cars. This isn’t always the case, but I’m running around in a MK2 Mondeo at the moment, and spare parts for it are soooooo cheap it’s untrue! That and most of them can be found even cheaper still from breakers yards as they’re so common.

Which brings me onto another area… Buy something rare/unique and it will cost you time and money. Buy something boringly ubiquitous, and it will be much easier and cheaper to keep on the road.

Incidentally, cheapest car I’ve ever ran (except for the fuel, but that was mostly offset by other running costs) was an old 1995 E34 BMW 540i. Despite a heady 24mpg average (that was with a light right foot, could go down a lot lower than that easily with a bootful), I managed to source all spares I needed for it either from breakers, or ebay, or from BMW enthusiast forums. A managed to get a full stainless steel exhaust, only 3k miles old (previous owner wrote his car off) for £100, when even a crappy replacement would’ve been 4 times that. Bought 2 sets of full alloy wheels, with as new tyres, for £140 each. Tyres for that car were £80 a pop (for cheapish ones), so I was effectively getting them for less than half price! I loved that car too, shame that its thirst and a job loss meant I couldn’t afford it any longer…

I would go younger, but high mileage. 100 k is really not that much on a car these days. Would much rather have a 4 year old car with 80k than a 8year old car with 40k.

Conversely I’d rather go the other way… A 4 year old car with 100k on the clock is out of warranty, and soon it’s going to have some BIG milage related bills need tending to, even if it has been looked after immaculately, especially if it’s a diesel.

I’m running around in a 12 year old Mondeo, that I bought 6 months ago with 38,500 miles on the clock, 2 former owners, first of which was Heathrow Airport (and it was properly looked after, full wallet of bills for it etc.) and the 2nd owner an old bloke who pottered about in it, but still lovingly took care of it. It might not have more modern dynamics, but even though it’s 12 years old it still drives like a very nearly new car, it is very tight. It also only cost me £900, including the LPG tank that was already installed!

A 4 year old high miler is a money pit waiting to happen if you ask me… Only buy one IF previous owner can provide a totally comprehensive full service history, and proof that everything has been changed absolutely on the button. Modern cars are built to be throwaway items, limited more by milage than age. Older cars (especially old Beemers, Saabs, Volvo’s and Merc’s etc.) were built to last forever and a day if they were looked after well, and many are still about, but new cars are built to a price and not designed to last for all that many miles. Older, low milage cars that have been looked after still make a lot of sense…

Mondeo probably… Millions of them out there, reasonably priced to buy, cheapish to run, cheap to fix. Focus estate is a great wee bike hauler but you get more mondeo for your money.

mboy,not a hard and fast rule regarding age/mileage.
My logic goes as follows a four year old car with 80k on clock will have spent its time on motorways and likely have had one business owner, probably with a full service history. I really believe that motorway miles are good for a car, esp modern ones. The build up of fuel deposits and gunk seems a bigger killer of engines and ancillaries (egr valves etc) than problems of old like piston rings and head gaskets. High mileage keeps these bits cleaner and also helps keep the exhaust in good condition.
My last volvo was 14 years old and had 175000 on it. It was age not mileage that was starting to show on it, corroded brake pipes etc. So my age thing is related to 8 years of exposure to Uk winter and daily short journeys is typically worse than 4 years with more mileage.

There are however some great older bargains out there. My next door neighbour sold his fabia 1.4 mpi in january due to his age. It was 2004 model with 11500 miles (yes…11500!). He sold it for just over £3000 and because he has a carport and only used it twice a week it was almost factory fresh. despite the low mileage though the car had recently had a load. of engine money spent on it for lambda and nox sensors.
So just use your common sense on assessing the life the car has probably has.

+1 Mondeo, cheap, ecomnomical, reliable easy to fix and common.

Estate is pretty cavernous for kit too. Function, not fashion 😆

Anything put together in Japan as long as body work is ok. Mazda did a 626 estate with a diesel, I spent a weekend in one with my bike and sleeping bag. I used to work in Mazda service department and we’d only see them for servicing.
Skoda octavia estate will swallow families and bikes.
Volvos are good and old tdi’s will go to the moon and back.

For that money you are spoiled for choice.

Sure something will come up.

+1 on the mondeos above. I had a mk2 for a while, less money than an equivilent age/spec focus, and bigger is good for lugging bikes.

Thanks a ton for all the replies.

To be honest, as attractive as a big saloon/estate like a Mondeo is, I’d rather a smaller hatchback (but not too small, old Focus is perfect sized IMO), even if it’s just for easy parking etc.

I’m a uni student, so no family etc, just sticking bikes in. Have a bike rack too, although I prefer not to use it when I can avoid it.

Duane buy a coupe, or a faux coupe. There’s plenty of time to get a Mondeo/Skoda/Audi your young exploit your lack of commitments.