2017 Trek Fuel Ex. Going riding now, will bore you later

Whyte S-150 29 when it gets released in a month or two? Looks plenty aggro.

I'd be looking at the Jeffsy (if budget driven) or hightower (if not)
Those Trek Slash RSL's look gripping nice though if you want to tear the arse out of it.

Hmm. I'd discounted the fuel on the basis that it's 'only' 130mm.

Banshee Prime, it's a hooligan but stiff enough to go where you aim it and hold even the sketchiest of line choices.

I'm 13 stone and don't ride light. Ride the lakes and Scotland frequently, the Ciaran path last week was brilliant on mine.

The Hightower with a 160 fork up front is a very capable bike.

Mega 290?

What are your geometry preferences, in terms of reach & chainstay length?

I've done a lot of pondering/test riding of FS 29ers, so may be able to make some useful suggestions.

I am absolutely made up with my Jeffsy. It's an absolutely fantastic bike! Best I have owned in years!

Geometry wise I'm in a state of transition, but slack with a long front centre is beginning to win out.

Banshee Prime - hadn't thought of that one.

Mega 290 - I thought that might be the one, but I've spoken to to may people that have them and they say they eat bearings, which puts me off. Doubly so at my weight.

I'd say Cotic RocketMax, Mega 290 or Orange Stage 5 or 6 for super-stable high-speed riding (all have long CS).

Enduro 29, Trek Slash for more playfulness (short CS).

I found the new Fuel EX a bit skittish in burly rocky terrain.

New Whyte might be in the middle ground. Jeffsy also, if long enough reach.

I've recently got a secondhand Enduro 29 as a "stopgap" and I bloody love it. Much, much livelier than I expected and climbs amazingly - a fantastic all-rounder. Reach of 445mm on the large is just long enough for me.

My blog on it: http://unduro.co.uk/mtb/first-impressions-specialized-enduro-29/

The Mega 290 does eat its stock bearings, but only because they're a bit shit- replacing them with quality ones should sort it. Bloody good otherwise.

BMC Trailfox might be worth a look, it's a fullon enduro race bike really but still falls into your target. Or the old Remedy for that matter if you can find a cheap one, it's been totally superceded by the slash and fuel ex but sits neatly in the middle (both bikes are evolutions of the old one)

Cotic Sam was good enough to bring the bikes down for a good solid demo round my way actually, and the rocket max was a really nicely executed single pivot, but I do have a preference for proper linkage bikes because IMO they climb a bit nicer on tech climbs when traction is marginal.

I keep reading glowing reports about the Spesh enduro, but for some reason it doesn't float my boat. I wonder if it's the gratuitous travel putting me off, or the brand snob in me!

The Enduro is shockingly dull to look at, agreed.

Don't let the travel put you off though, it honestly does pedal like something with 120mm travel. It's like magic. And it handles like a TIE fighter compared to my Radon Swoop.

By contrast the Mega 290 handles like a barge but is probably the fastest bike I've ridden - apart from my old Summum perhaps.

Neither are better, just totally different characters in bikes that people might assume were really similar.

2018 SC Hightower LT (when it's finally released).

Evil Reckoning

Orange Stage 5

Orange Stage 6

I really didn't like the enduro tbh, basically I felt perched on top. It's not really that short but it feels it (even though I sized up to a large). I rode my slackened Remedy immediately before and after on the same trails and tbh it made the enduro feel a bit shit.

I really didn't like the enduro tbh, basically I felt perched on top. It's not really that short but it feels it (even though I sized up to a large).

Absolutely agree in standard form, it's horrible. But the 650b linkage makes it feel totally different.

Dunno about the new model.

I do have a preference for proper linkage bikes because IMO they climb a bit nicer on tech climbs when traction is marginal

That's probably not a linkage thing per se but how the pivots are positioned to manipulate the anti-squat.

I thought the Cotic 29ers were some of the best-climbing FS bikes I've ridden. But I didn't do anything exceptionally techy on them.

Having ridden a mate's 130mm Pivot Mach 429 Carbon recently, and gone faster on that first ride than I have in 7 years riding my own 160/150mm bike, I can only imagine how good their new Switchblade will be. That's what I'd be buying.

I own a Yeti SB4.5c and I'm seriously impressed with the bike and how it rides. Especially with 114mm rear suspension. Granted, the bigger, square hits are felt but generally it feels like it has more travel. Paired with 140mm up front it's a bloody quick bike.

Therefore I imagine the SB5.5c is completely bonkers.

But
[img] [/img]

Hi
I have a Jeffsy with a Fox 36 fork and would recommend it.
Also have an Evil Following which I love but if it doesn't have enough travel I would look at a Wreckoning presuming it rides as well as the Following-it won a recent test in mbr up against the Slash and Enduro
But the Trek Slash also just looks right and has been seriously winking at me too
Cheers
Steve

I really didn't like the enduro tbh, basically I felt perched on top. It's not really that short but it feels it (even though I sized up to a large).

I've read that quite alot. I'd also have to fart about with it to make it UK proof - that stupid alu spoke nipples build they do to save weight is one example, and. by the sound of it, I'd need to twizzle the linkages from new.

That's probably not a linkage thing per se but how the pivots are positioned to manipulate the anti-squat.

Possibly. I'm more keen to get something that minimises chain growth rather than worrying too much about anti squat. I know some feel that it helps to dig in the back climbing, but in my view, it just helps with wheel spinning on techy climbs by reducing suspension compliance. I know I don't like VPP.

The new s150 does look very spanky, but its so achingly new school and enduro focussed, I wonder if it might be a bit dull when you're not absolutely pinning it.

I'm quite taken by the 2017 Banshee Prime though, progressive, but not extreme. Anyone know any dealers in the southwest?

I thought about a Jeffsy too, but I reckon its behind the long/low/slack zeitgeist now and I don't change my bikes very often, so want it to last a bit without being immediately out of date.

Buy the latest copy of the mag. 3 tested this month.

I'm sorry, a what?
😆

Not entirely sure when 160mm Enduro race bikes became trail bikes 🙂

A 29" trail bike would be something like a Smuggler, 429, Hightower, Fuel, Jeffsey, etc.

Specialized stumpjumper 29er. Loads of the around so you can pick them up for a good price new or used.

140 travel. This is a safe option.

If you have a higher budget then it's got to be a new orange stage 5 or 6 29er

I am looking for one as well seems to be a lot of choice around 105 - 120mm mark, phantom,pyga, dhango, smuggler, 429, segment but not a lot in 130 - 150 range unless you spend big money. I had a prime and found it unbelievably heavy. I am after similar thing to OP and want something to handle everything really including the odd alps trip which I think I may suffer on without more travel.

Not entirely sure when 160mm Enduro race bikes became trail bikes

Fair comment hobnob, was responding to his description of his riding rather than the "trail bike" in the title.

Jeffsy might be the best option, if it's long enough for him.

Scienceofficer - Member

Possibly. I'm more keen to get something that minimises chain growth rather than worrying too much about anti squat.

Good shout imo, I hate the whole strong anti-squat thing, the bike doesn't know if you're pedalling up a fire road or down a rock garden.

Take the Trailfox off the list, if it was ever on it- it's full of antisquat and you won't like it. It actually might make me faster, but I still don't like it and that's not a good tradeoff.

Stumpjumper is a long legged lightweight trail bike IMO. It's certainly not right for me.

You're right to bring enduro bikes into the equation IMO, because they're built tougher and I have a reputation for, uh, being able to find the flex point of things. I can make my pikes flutter under heavy braking quite easily.

Plus, this bike is for the very aggro end of 'trail'. Rangers path, Sticks pass, Stakes pass, castlecrags, Birkside, back of Fleetwith Pike, Styhead Ghyll, etc... It'll see BPW blacks, Cheddar gorge rock gardens, nutcrackers and a host of other anonymous rocky, lumpy trails that are fun to attack, but I still expect it to be acceptable to climb on, and be tenacious in technical climbs in particular. I'm not very light, and it would be foolish of me to be too obsessed by weight, but I don't want a tank to pedal all day either.

It seems the 2017 prime actually weighs the same as my Sultan, so I doubt I'd notice a difference if I went that direction.

I liked the look I'd the Prime.

KusTom cycles (or something like that) were very helpful when I spoke to them. They are based near Minehead I believe.

I initially started off with an OO Codeine, great bike, loved the geo but a little too flexy on the rear end for me, and the metal is a little soft so it picked up a ding on the underside of the downtube on a scarhouse reservoir ride one winter. The best £10 I ever spent on it was having it acid dipped to remove the gopping awful graphics.

[img] [/img]

I then moved onto an Orange Alpine Five (after seeing Sam at Bike Verbier never struggle on tight hairpins), but could never get the shock tune right for the single pivot so didn't spend much time on it.

The Five29 after its refresh and awaiting rebuild....
[img] [/img]

Next up was a Nicolai AC29er but the angles were all wrong for me, then when the Banshee Prime came up for sale I went straight for it. I've played around with the geo chips but leave it in the low setting all the time now. The fork has recently grown to a 160mm pike, and the rear shock will be changing soon. Glad I went for the XL as I enjoy the extra reach/front centre space, fully built in the real world with real tyres its 31.5lbs so not bad at all. On recent trips to the lakes I've been happier riding more and more silly tech on it and didn't dismount once coming down the last pass to Stockley Bridge a few weeks back.

Here's mine on Skye last week:
[img] [/img]

The geo is bang on for me but I would like a rear shock with a CS/platform so I'm looking at the DB Coil IL CS for it. What would I buy next? Ben Jones new Yeti SB5.5 is a hell of a bike, but I prefer ally, Geometron? I'm not a racer so no use to me. Hope that helps.

I recently went from a trail bike 29er to a long travel/enduro 29er and although it weighs slightly more, your legs will get used to it quite quickly. What will take longer to get used to is descending at such speed with the longer travel and 29er killing it!

For whats its worth, mine is the spesh enduro 29er 2017. I think the thing that makes this bike fun is the 66HA and short chainstays.

I have seen the pics of the whyte 29er which is meant to come out, but I demo'd a G160 last year with a friend who was interested and it didnt feel lively or fun at lower speeds, but once the trails got steep or the speed increased it felt better, I wouldnt say it came alive, but it was super stable and able to hit everything in its path. I think what made the Whyte feel like this is the longer wheel base and longer stays then what I was riding at the time.

I'd actually say, your choice is limited by budget, the cost of long travel 29ers is all over the place, you can get the Enduro Comp for sub 3K or pay 4k-ish for the trek or more for the Evil Wreckoning! (I dont know the cost of the Oranges, but I refuse to look as I dont like the look of them...)

After reading the title i thought i'd suggest the RocketMax as it fits that role very well for me but once i read some the the replies and talk of anti squat and chain growth i realised i'm completely out of my depth. At least i now know my bike is a single pivot 😆

You're getting a picture whether you want one or not

[img] ~original[/img]

But look at it.

True - for a Trek it's a good looking bike. Having ridden one fairly extensively when trying to decide what I wanted to ride/race this year between it & a Fuel, I am glad I made the right choice for me however.

As i've mentioned on here anyway, the Fuel isn't really the bike they market it as, the geometry is remarkably close to the Slash, but with a much lighter weight & shorter travel it loses the monster truck feel & sluggish nature of a big travel 29".

It's short travel does make it skittish on flat out rough race stages, but it's not actually slower in reality. Where it shines is everywhere else in being more responsive & lively.

I was torn for ages between the 2, and one of my friends who races in the same team as me went for the Slash, but I get the feeling he will be selling it and getting a Fuel, as it really is a brute of a bike that needs it neck wringing to make it fun to ride (rather than race).

Considering this is my first short travel bike (and 29" since the old Enduro 29 I had years ago) i'm impressed with how much better it is. My inner snob dislikes the fact that it's a Trek however.

I'd throw the Nicolai G13 in there for consideration, really enjoying my XL and it has had a noticeable effect on my strava times.

The Prime that Gibbonarms is talking about up there was previously mine, only sold to get the Nicolai, and was a great bike. I'd say it's even more burly from a frame stiffness point of view than the Nicolai.

As a taller bloke I would suggest having a decent go on some bikes with longer reach figures, it was like finally getting a bike that fits from my perspective and as such has made me more confident riding the bike in all situations.

Gotama - did you always feel other bikes were too small or were you happy enough before and then the G13 just opened your eyes?

I'm 6ft2, short legs and long torso/arms and generally I've been happy enough on XL or even Larges but seen numerous folk comment about how they had their eyes opened by some of the newer really long bikes.

deleted

Groundskeeperwilly - Eye opener...it's all benefit for me, no downside.

Detail fluff if you can be bothered... I went from a 2Souls Quarterhorse hardtail to a semi custom Swarf, so very short reach of about 430mm to 490mm. There was huge difference in how stable the bike felt through rougher sections and how balanced it all felt. I picked up the Prime then as it was long for full sus at the time and had a similar reach to the Swarf and that felt good. I'd hankered after a Nicolai for a long time and when they/Mojo brought out the 29er I arranged a test. As with the 2Souls to the Swarf this was another big difference. The Mojo test bike was fitted with a slightly knackered semi slick and we were riding loamy trails that were moist. I'd never felt so comfortable with a bike sliding around underneath me and it felt as if I had a much bigger pocket to move my weight around rather than feeling like I'm too far forward or hanging off the back. There are some other factors at play here but reach, for me, is the really key one. From my perspective it is a bike that actually fits. It felt great at first but I’ve now had it since October and it feels as playful as all the smaller bikes I have had before it. To me there is no downside to the longer reach bikes.

I am just over 6ft 3 fwiw.

I have a feeling you're miles away but if you are surrey hills way you're welcome to swing a leg over my XL G13 for a little ride.

Canyon Spectral

Thanks Gotama, I'll take a look at the Nicolai.

I'm a dwarfish 6ft and I think we've discussed the limitations of the Quarterhorse on my other thread. I'm on a large rather than and XL. 450mm reach on my fast forward feels about right for me, but I think generally I'm experiencing the same pathway as yours in terms of bike fit.

The 2017 prime is longer again and is pretty appealing at the moment.wonderfully seat seat tube still, because IMO, slack and long doesn't work properly without this.

Indeed we have.

wonderfully seat seat tube still, because IMO, slack and long doesn't work properly without this.

I assume this was meant to say something regarding a steep seat angle and yes, imo you're quite right. Being sat more upright on a climb puts you in a much more natural position and whilst it was a weird 'what's different here' sensation at first it is definitely another improvement in bike geo.

You're quite right. Fat fingers on a rained on smart phone do not make for good grammar or spelling!

god I want a G 13. doing a bit of saving for a 'Dream build' next april and the G 13 is right at the top of my list.

I'd definitely want to try the Oranges, the old Five 29 was the best bike they've ever made- the soul of a Five and the capability of an Alpine. I testrode it on glentress red and fort william dh, not many bikes that can really shine at both. Still the only bike I've ridden that competes with the Remedy (I'm asssuming the Fuel Ex and Slash both beat it fwiw, they ought to anyway). It did pedal exactly like it has a hinge in the middle, because it does, but I didn't care that much- climb switch ftw. So hopefully the new ones build on that. (the Gyro was shite though so you never know)

Not that I need a new bike, but I'll hopefully get a test ride on a G13 at Ard Rock this year if Mojo are in attendance again.

Hi,

I don't have a 29er FS so not too much to add other than I think your mendip based and I know that independent bike co in Weston can supply the orange stages and also has Nicolai bikes in stock. I quite like the look of the Starling murmur it got a good write up and is Bristol based which could be good for demos etc

Erm, yes so I'm building this up at the moment ....

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Just as a little experiment really.

It seems well made and on first thoughts isn't as short feeling as I'd expected.

A friend has an Evil Wreckoning and loves it. Its biggest problem he finds is that your have to go scary fast to get it to work properly because its so sorted. He doing the Trans Provence on it

Transition Smuggler, because handling>travel . I'm over 13 stone and love mine.

Its biggest problem he finds is that your have to go scary fast to get it to work properly because its so sorted

Not sure that's my definition of sorted!

I own a Yeti SB4.5c and I'm seriously impressed with the bike and how it rides. Especially with 114mm rear suspension. Granted, the bigger, square hits are felt but generally it feels like it has more travel. Paired with 140mm up front it's a bloody quick bike.

Therefore I imagine the SB5.5c is completely bonkers.

want. both.

Stumpy 29er - https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/6097/2017-stumpjumper-fsr-expert-carbon-29/

Or for the ultimate rowdy one

Enduro - https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/7190/2017-enduro-elite-carbon-29-6fattie/

I've had the stumpy and now have the Enduro, whichever suits

Mega

Thanks for the extra suggestions. I will never buy another orange after some pretty shabby treatment 10 years ago, plus, their chain growth characteristics are exactly what I don't want!

I'll be making some banshee enquiries pretty soon.

I think the Prime would be a great choice, I was on the verge of ordering one when Pat at Ison (great to deal with BTW, answered all my stupid questions really quickly) told me there wouldn't be any raw XLs in the country this year. That combined with having to wait a bit plus a few hundred quid price difference made me go for the Trek.

Not regretted my choice at all (except for the bike snob bit same as Hob Nob, I'd rather have a Banshee than a Trek). I'm aware Hob Nob is faster than I'll ever be but his summary pretty much nails the Trek. Great angles, does feel a bit short on travel when really moving over rough ground but still tracks true through it. Talk of changing the shock stroke to give 138mm travel certainly has my attention.

Stiff as you like but if you're pottering around it just feels like a competent bike. When you're feeling it and put some effort into riding it then it is properly rapid, the more aggro you are with body English the more it seems to like it!

Had a carbon Stumpy in between the Sultan and this but agree with what you said about it SO, the stiff carbon front end felt mismatched with the slightly twangy rear when pushing on. Plus it had the world's longest headtube. I like a high front end but this was ridiculous, it never turned all that well. Thought the Sultan was a much better bike.

The Fuel is better than both. Doesn't pedal quite as well as the DW Turner but not far off. Seat tube could do with being steeper despite what the effective figure says. Other than that it is properly awesome

I ride a slash 9.9. If the shock is set up correctly it can be very playful. However, I've only just got mine to that point.

I've done quite a bit of riding on a Hightower recently and it's very very good indeed. If you're not restricted by budget I've definitely have a look at them and maybe try to get a good ride on one. There are some on hire fleets in the tweed valley.

I'm actually debating whether I need another FS right now, but I'm intending to trial a Rocketmax and Flaremax towards the end of summer if I decide I do.

If, after deciding I can't actually live in a world without rear squish I decide I don't like either enough to commit then it gets interesting and I'll be remembering some of what's up there! 🙂

For those with treks what length forks are you running?

140 Ohlins on the fuel. Wouldn't want to run 130s that come with the 27.5 version, BB is low enough as it is. Reckon the frame could easily take 150s

Hmm. *Stokes chin*

Nicholai G 16 2017 can be built up as 29 er, 27.5, (155mm rear 175mm rear), or 29 front 27.5 back ( which apparently you would have to prize out of Chris Porters hands!!) Chainline (see below) also rates the 29/27.5 very highly.

look for long discussion (37 page ) on STW and contact "chainline" re options set ups etc, and can organise a demo

can be built light with non piggy back shock, and 34 s or Burly with X2 and 36s

Unique, rare, alloy and until you have ridden one then it is impossible to imagine how competent they are.

Cockpit will be as you want it seated, but the reach and front centre give one a very centralised position for descending, which until you get used to it is slightly strange.

The seat tubes are relatively short, so long droppers can be used, at 5,10" I would ride a longer ( as a true 18 inch 460mm seat tube bike for me is almost too long to run a 150 reverb), 502 reach, but I think Chainline (same height) now rides an longest or even extra longest.

I recently bought a Whyte T129 and although I've only been on it a handful of times so far, I think it's absolutely blinding. For what I paid for it (Winstanleys) it's even better.

Sure, the rear tyre clearance isn't brilliant, but I reckon you'd get a 2.3" in there just about and the bars are awkward with their funny backsweep and low rise. The stock rear tyre is also rubbish. However, a 30mm rise Renthal and a decent rear tyre later and the bike rips.

I'm well out of practice but initial rides have seen me ride familiar sections at PB pace and although the travel is modest (120mm) the geometry makes up for that. There isn't anything I've ridden on previous 160mm 27.5 bikes that I wouldn't ride the Whyte on (natural trails in N.Wales, Eastridge, Revolution, Antur Stiniog, Coed Y Brenin).

Having previously owned an Enduro 29er the Whyte blows that away in terms of its sizing, geometry and efficiency. That said my Enduro was a 2014 model so the new one may be different.

I really like the look of the new S150 but would be tempted, if I felt the need for something more aggressive, to either fit some offset bushings and/or put a longer shaft in the Yari to take it up to 130-140mm.

For those with treks what length forks are you running?

I have a 140mm F34 on mine, which is about to come off - I am actually putting something a little more beefy on there, as I don't think the 34 is enjoying it's life, so will go on the hardtail i'm building.

I appreciate however my bike is possibly being used outside of it's intended spectrum however 🙂

If you want something a big longer, but still short travel, the Nicolai is probably a good option. It's not my bag for a few reasons, but others like them.

dartmoor bluebird?

[url= https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ns-snabb-plus-1--review.html ]NS Snabb Plus?[/url]

davosaurusrex - Member
140 Ohlins on the fuel. Wouldn't want to run 130s that come with the 27.5 version, BB is low enough as it is. Reckon the frame could easily take 150s

How did you get round the different lower headset bearing?

Cane Creek do a compatible bearing with an inner profile to sit on the CSU, LBS got me the stainless one for about £35 I think. Figured would be worth the extra over the standard £20 one because of the lack of sealing with the Ohlins crown. That said not sure how much sealing benefit a crown race gives but hey ho.

just throwing this out there
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Click the Pic 🙂

I'd have said Pole Evolink as well..