Geo is same as old one though 72 degrees ha. I think it was max 100mm fork, though new one is beefed up?
Definitely more xc focus.

I’m after something with a 70 degree max ha with 100mm forks and max 17″ chainstays in ss mode (to end of dropouts,not front). Doesn’t exist

can you not fit an angle-set in the new scandal most new frames?

Clinc, doesn’t the Nimble 9 fit that bill?

I find the whole head angle thing very confusing, as there doesn’t seem to be any standard for measurement. For example, the Scandal is 72 degrees, but that’s with a sagged 80mm fork. Some others are quoted as 71 static with a 100mm fork. Which is steeper?

I’ve got my Scandal with an angleset and 120mm fork, it is 10% worse up the hills and 50% better down, so spot on for me. Being a tapered headtube and beefed up frame it seems fine and i’m not the smallest of guys.

Clink, doesn’t the Nimble 9 fit that bill?

I find the whole head angle thing very confusing, as there doesn’t seem to be any standard for measurement. For example, the Scandal is 72 degrees, but that’s with a sagged 80mm fork. Some others are quoted as 71 static with a 100mm fork. Which is steeper?

Yes – but I’m being very picky as I want a lighter frame!

I agree on the confusion. Anglesets are a new option. But my limited understanding suggests you to get a 29er to turn well for xc you either need steepish ha (in which case long chainstays are not so much an issue, but less stable downhill) or slacker ha with short chainstays?

Mag review (‘cos they are always right 😀 )a while back comparing number of 29ers criticised the Trek/GF for combing slack-ish ha (which I know is taken care of by G2 geo) with long-ish chainstays.

So to get to the point the Scandal etc, imo, work well with their steep ha and average chainstays, but if you slacken the ha (120mm fork or angleset) they will suffer in twisties? The new Whyte appears to offer a solution – but in limited sizes and complete bikes only.

For me it was a funding issue! I would love the new Whyte or the Yeti Big Top, but finances don’t stretch that, so have settled on slackening the headangle on the Scandal, the idea actually came from reading Brant Richards Shedfire website, he did the same with his prototype frame.

OP is quite clear that he means slightly slacker but still relatively shorter travel, which is what people typically mean when they say ‘trail’.

Aye, thats what I was getting at.

Pace RC129,

Got one and love it.

Wasnt there a 29’r test in the last issue of MBR?

Wasnt there a 29’r test in the last issue of MBR?

There was, but it was £1000 complete bikes.

Trek/GF for combing slack-ish ha (which I know is taken care of by G2 geo) with long-ish chainstays.

They’ve shortened the chainstays up on the full sussers at least.

A good way to shorten the chain stays on many 29ers is to measure them a different way.

Scandal has a 70.2deg HA on the 18, 19.5in and 21in bikes, static, with 100mm fork.
69.2deg on 16in.
Angleset can knock that back 1.5deg even with tapered steerer.

hugor – Member

looking for Hardtail BTW.

The only 29 HT that fits then is the Kona Honzo as far as I’m aware.

I would agree with this man.

Why the obsession of short stays ? What if they were long and what effect would that have on handling ?

longer stays make it harder to lift the front wheel.

(and vice wersa)

but, on the other hand, longer stays mean your front wheel is less likely to lift/wander on steep climbs.

in my opinion, 10mm (or so) longer/shorter can make a noticeable difference to manual-ability / front-wheel-lift-yness, but 10mm longer/shorter doesn’t make much difference to going-round-corners-itude.

(your riding style/opinion may vary)

some 29ers have been criticised by some (me included) for having really long stays, some manufacturers have responded by making bikes with really short stays – maybe only just to make a point

got you, cheers

Clink yhm

My 29er swift (100mm forks) has a fractionally shorter wheelbase than my 26″ inbred (130mm forks). Both front ends seem perfectly liftable even though the 29er has longer stays.

good for you.

🙂

as a guide though, the longer the chainstays/rear-centre, the closer you get to a bike that’s quite hard to manual.

Absolutely but people get far too het up about a 1cm difference in a measurement that is only a part of the equation that goes into defining ‘handling’…

Clink – Member

The Whyte does look interesting and if it rides anywhere near as nice as their 19 series, should be a winner!

Pity they don’t.

FIFY 😉

clubber – i couldn’t agree more.

which is why i don’t really understand when a bike-co release a bike with really-short chainstays – at the expense of being able to fit a front mech…

which is why i don’t really understand when a bike-co release a bike with really-short chainstays – at the expense of being able to fit a front mech..

What’s a front mech?!? 😆

I’m not sure why people are obsessed with the chainstay length, it you look at a sucessful full sus 26er like the Lapierre Zesty, that is known for being quite long in the wheelbase and not being that easy to manual.

I think that although a lot of the current crop of 29ers are getting close to 26ers in terms of manoueverability, they are never going to be as quick in tight singletrack and as easy to manual as 26inch wheels i don’t think, if you want that sort of bike then stay away from them.

I think where they win out is being able to carry speed, all day ride comfort etc and you need to decide what type of bike and wheel size suits your riding best, not try and just get a 29er as they in vogue and then just try and get it to perform like a 26er anyway.

I can’t manual for toffee anyway!

need to decide what type of bike and wheel size suits your riding best, not try and just get a 29er as they in vogue and then just try and get it to perform like a 26er anyway.

Which is why we all need a HUUUUUGE stable of bikes. different tools for different jobs 😀

I can’t manual for toffee anyway!

Glad I’m not alone.

My 29er Inbred is the only MTB I have now, so to me its a trail bike (& DH, & XC, & AM, & school run, & etc etc).
I’d be happy riding it on anything I rode my old FS on, albeit slightly slower. 🙂

Santa Cruz Highball??

as a guide though, the longer the chainstays/rear-centre, the closer you get to a bike that’s quite hard to manual.

Good job you hav’nt oversimplified things by ignoring bb height eh 🙄

like i said; ‘as a guide’

i didn’t say; ‘the one and only factor’

and considering the question i was attempting to answer was:

Why the obsession of short stays ? What if they were long and what effect would that have on handling ?

i don’t think i was miles off…

(i had a Dh bike with a 470mm-effective chainstay length, i don’t think it was the BB height that made manuals next-to-impossible-for-me-and-my-meagre-talent)

It’s not a hardtail but is shexy

http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/tallboy

My concept of trail is at least 120mm fork travel, slackish geo like 69 HTA, low BB and short chainstays.
There are not many 29er HT that fit this description.
Most are built for 80 – 100mm forks with around 70 HTA’s.
This is certainly more race/xc than trail.
As I mentioned the Honzo fits this description but most of the bikes mentioned above I would consider race bikes.

This is certainly more race/xc than trail.

Depends if you are comparing with a 26″

Just because it takes the same fork travel doesn’t always mean its in the same category as its 26″ cousin

Exactly. You can’t compare them like that. For a start you need less travel for a similar feel on a 29er.

Most are built for 80 – 100mm forks with around 70 HTA’s.
This is certainly more race/xc than trail.

I’d say most have 71-72 HTA’s – but I’m being picky 😉

What about the Turner Sultan – 68 degree HA no?

That’s a full susser though.

WARNING: exploding wheel content to follow

[video]http://vimeo.com/30398545[/video]

[video]http://vimeo.com/33167422[/video]

I don’t have any affiliation with Kona by the way but I really like these 2 videos.
Some great 29er trail bikes at work.

Been playing around with the set up on our demo Canfield Nimble9….

The sliding drops allow you to tuck the wheel right under the seat tube. In this setting techie descents are decent, berms are blovely, and the front end tends to lift if climbing seated. But this is perfect for a trail centre set up, biased towards the downs.

It’s now got 780mm wide salsa whammy bars, and is getting an increase in tyre from 2.25 to 2.35 racing Ralph’s. Forks are at 100mm which is cool… And then it’s going back to the mountains (or Portland ) for another blast.

If you want it more XC just move the drops back 20mm, and then it much he same as most 29ers.

Also just want to say its rather exciting seeing 29ers adapting to disciplines beyond XC …. It’s also got me riding like an idiot again… Which is good.

From those videos the difference between a trail and XC 29er seems to be you wear lycra for XC.

Surely it has a lot to do with weight?

Could somebody please post up a pic of a buffoon.
I have no idea

sorry this was the closest i could find!

for me with all bikes the trail, gnarly stuff is always better on bikes that have a more rearward weight distribution (of the riders weight) due to short chainstay, long forks, slack head angle, short stem…

Yeti Big Top !

The End.