Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • Warranty bike rebuild – £460 for parts?!
  • Premier Icon james
    Free Member

    My bike frame cracked and they asked for the whole bike back (it was bought as a complete bike)

    I’ve been told they’re going to provide a new frameset which is great but they’ve listed £460 of parts that ‘require replacement to carry out the rebuild’
    Now if this was parts that were to a different standard (think BB, headset, shock etc) I have come across this before, but they’ve listed brake pads/rotors, chain/cassette/chainring/BB, headset bearings, gear cables* much of which is general wear and tear items and much of which is easily swapped without difficulty
    (*its not got internal cable routing)

    Labour quoted FOC
    It was sent in within 2 years but by the time I get it back it will be out of 2 year warranty on all parts/frame but the frame will still be within manufacturers frame guarantee

    Is this normal?
    If I’d known this was to be the case I’d have swapped a load of it out before I sent it in?

    Premier Icon beaker
    Full Member

    Sounds fishy to me. Get more info and post back here?

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Full Member

    Were they all shagged when you sent it in, do you reckon?

    If not, ask them to rebuild with the parts as sent. If they’ve binned them without asking, they should be giving you the bits unless they’ve got photos to show they were beyond useful life.

    If they can’t do that, you’ve at least got some room for haggling – e.g. parts at cost.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    It’s possible that the replacement frame needs, for instance, a different size headset or BB.

    No one is going to build up using old cables.

    Things like cassette and chainrings might already be worn out (in fact, didn’t you have exactly this issue?).

    Sounds like there are other issues but can’t really comment without the detail. What frame and what replacement?

    Premier Icon bigyan
    Free Member

    If a bike getting a warranty frame needed service parts replaced I have often discussed it with the customer as the bike was in bits anyway, so a cheap time to get new parts fitted.

    If you are DIY I would ask them not to bother, source your own parts and do it yourself.

    Generally bike shops dont get labour credits from manufacturers for warranty jobs.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Ask for all the worn out parts back and the frame unbuilt.

    IMO its them trying to make up profit to compensate for the losses they have in build costs. Bang out of order

    Premier Icon jonba
    Free Member

    Can you rebuild it yourself? I’d ask them to ship it back unbuilt if you are able.

    Otherwise you have a bit of a problem. They are probably unwilling to build with worn part as it can be a bit of a minefield. Having done DIY frame swaps I can sympathise. I’ve never worn out a rotor but one might be bent. It’s pretty hard to align calipers with worn pads. I always have to re do it at a later stage when I refit new pads. If you ever take a bike to a shop, in my experience they will tell you the drive chain is worn. It’s a pain in the back side. There’s worn to manufacturer guidelines and there’s worn so it doesn’t work. I tend to run to the latter on all but my nice road bike. However, rebuilding on a warn drive chain may make it harder to set up and if they send it back you and you have problems they have grief to deal with.

    Press fit bottom brackets can’t officially be refitted. It’s probably not good mechanicing to refit a threaded one professionally. Same with headsets.

    I’d never rebuild with old cables, no point as they are cheap.

    So they will have reasons for wanting to use new parts. Your next problem is you are likely paying RRP or shop prices and not the best price you can find online.

    How much is the bike worth? £1000 then it seems a bit unreasonable. £5000 then it becomes a bit more reasonable.

    What I would do is tot up how much it would cost to get the parts yourself. If it is £350 then just pay the difference and let them do it. If it is massive then give them a call, explain your concerns have a discussion and see what you can negotiate.

    Premier Icon bigyan
    Free Member

    It could also be the liability aspect, I wont service a bike that the disc rotors are worn out without replacing them. After a bike has been serviced, it should be safe to use.

    If they assemble the bike it should be fit for use, if parts are worn out and fail, they touched it last.

    Premier Icon toby
    Full Member

    It’s possible that the replacement frame needs, for instance, a different size headset.

    Is that not the manufacturer / distributor’s problem? Sold as a complete bike with warranty, it breaks, then an equivalent or better bike should be supplied – or am I out of touch with modern consumer rights?

    As above, if it was actually worn into the ground and the mechanic’s saying that the brakes etc. aren’t safe to put on a bike, then I can see some legitimacy, but part worn parts I’d have thought fine to put back on a bike.

    A set of cables I’d have thought was part of the expense of any build and pretty trivial compared to a replacement frame. Probably less than the cost of shipping it back to you. Where do you stop – charge for 1% of a tube of grease, wear and tear on an allen key?

    Sounds fishy to me, but if it was on its last legs when it went back, I could see their point of view.

    Premier Icon carlos
    Full Member

    If they’ve not actually rebuilt your bike up, I’d just ask for it to be built back up with the parts it went in with, unless there is something specific required (new headset etc.. as you’ve mentioned). Or as ^^ nedrapier says “if they have binned them, rebuilt it and can’t return them or prove wear, you have a bit of haggle room”.

    When I got my frame warrantied, the bike shop were very clear as to additional parts I needed such as new cables, invisi kit, a brake bleed (internal routing) and headset before it was rebuilt, which was an agreed cost. As was the £75 rebuild of my parts onto the new frame. I had asked for them to build it up with everything else off the old frame, even though I knew/they knew the drive chain, tyres and pads were worn.

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Full Member

    They aren’t building anything are they. They found a complete bike out back for your warranty replacement. Some one said lets save the hassle of a full rebuild and just bill him for the bits we can’t be bothered to pull off the frame. Nice try, for some people it would be a great deal.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Liability aspect and “pain in the backsideness” could well be the answer – thats why I would be asking for everything back unbuilt as that absolves them

    Premier Icon daern
    Free Member

    Sounds a bit suspicious to me. Assuming internal routing, they could legitimately say cables + hoses + bleeding, but assuming the new frame is the same as the old one, then everything else can go straight back on, on the understanding that if it was all knackered when it came in, it’ll be your problem not theirs to sort. Personally, it sounds like they might be trying to offset the loss of labour on the free warranty work by gouging you for the rest…

    It’s surprising how quickly maintenance parts add up though – got a Whyte G160RS sat in the garage being rebuilt for someone else. Frame bearings, headset bearing, BB, cassette, chain, chainring + cables and it’s already pushing £300 just for parts, and that’s not including the shock that clearly needs a service (“next month”) and the fork that is a complete unknown, but probably does too. If I was changing for my time, it’s already had a fair few hours spent on it already and would easily be a £500 job, not including the suspension.

    Premier Icon submarined
    Free Member

    Before we go ragging on a bike shop, can we ascertain who ‘they’ are?
    Is it a direct to consumer, bike shop, or manufacturer. If it appears to be the bike shop, did they send the whole bike back to the manufacturer, or just the frame? Or did they accidentally bin the bike and the manufacturer is only sending a new frame…?

    I know when a mate’s Trek had a frame issue, he got a new frame and all incompatible parts replaced. I’ve heard takes off multiple other manufacturers doing the same.

    Wait, it’s not Yeti is it? I bet it’s bloody Yeti 😀

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    Is that not the manufacturer / distributor’s problem? Sold as a complete bike with warranty, it breaks, then an equivalent or better bike should be supplied – or am I out of touch with modern consumer rights?

    This. Surely a warranty replacement shouldn’t cost the consumer anything. If the replacement frame needs a new BB/headset/whatever then that’s the shop/manufacturers/distributors problem not the buyers.

    Premier Icon bigyan
    Free Member

    Is that not the manufacturer / distributor’s problem? Sold as a complete bike with warranty, it breaks, then an equivalent or better bike should be supplied – or am I out of touch with modern consumer rights?

    This. Surely a warranty replacement shouldn’t cost the consumer anything. If the replacement frame needs a new BB/headset/whatever then that’s the shop/manufacturers/distributors problem not the buyers.

    From experience working in shops it seems to depend.

    Trek, brilliant, I had customers get new cranks, rear wheel, shock etc when the new warranty frame was incompatible with the old parts.

    Other brands not so much, they just said the manufacturers warranty covers the part, no costs incurred etc so the customer had to buy a new rear wheel etc.

    If you are claiming under the manufacturers warranty it will be different to your consumer rights (with the retailer).

    Premier Icon trail_rat
    Free Member

    IMO its them trying to make up profit to compensate for the losses they have in build costs. Bang out of order

    Folk doing the rebuild seem to agree with the replies to his previous posts on here that his bikes worn to ****

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    You want them to rebuild using this cassette?

    Missing & bent cassette teeth – Is it really ‘Normal’ wear and tear?!

    Premier Icon garlando
    Full Member

    Giant Guildford quoted me exactly the same sort of cost to rebuild a warrantied frame back to the bike I bought. Told em to get stuffed.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Oh you’re into a minefield!

    Firstly, is the replacement frame an EXACT replacement? IN the 2 years since you bought it, the manufacturer hasn’t gone and changed geometry, pivot points, shock mountings, headset diameter, linkages, front mech (like going from 2x to 1x), wheel system (like going from QR to bolt-thru or 650b to 29″)?

    That’s your first issue.

    Second is what has happened to the parts? I assume the bike shop stripped the frame down and sent the frame off and now they have to rebuild? Frame swaps with worn parts are a PITA. Worth checking with the shop what sort of state they think the parts are in vs what you think of them. The shop might be willing to just give you a frame and a pile of bits back – not sure what the liability issues might be on that one…?

    Premier Icon stumpy01
    Full Member

    Are the parts they are quoting being provided at cost? The whole thing sounds a bit weird to me.

    My Stumpjumper FSR was warranted about 8 months after buying it.
    I paid an extra £50 to upgrade to the carbon frame because the alloy frame was not available and I’d have had to wait until October for the next yrs alloy version to be available.
    The bike was built up without question & I paid nothing extra, even though it came with new cables & they’d had to fit a different headset (or adaptor) as the alloy frame was a straight steerer (& so was the fork) while the carbon version has a tapered steerer.

    If it’s to replace absolutely knackered parts then I get it, but they should at least be explaining this to you & going through the options; e.g would you like to pay £12 for this chain or £60 for this one….?

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    You want them to rebuild using this cassette?

    Anyone taking one look at that cassette would probably mentally write-off most of the remaining drivetrain straight away.

    If you’re really thinking that all your bits were in good order, ask them to send everything back and build up the frame yourself, or just get them to do obvious stuff like BB/Headset.

    Premier Icon keithb
    Full Member

    Surely, if they offer a warranty on a frame/bike, then should that warranty b exercised, then there should be no cost to the consumer.  If the bike company (or whoever is fulfilling the warranty) is unwilling to rebuild the supplied bike with the supplied parts, then the cost of fitting replacements should be borne by them, under said warranty.

    Given the supplier asked for the whole bike back, you should receive a whole bike in return, either built up with all the parts/components as returned, with minimal replacements to meet the “standards” on the replacement frame, or rebuilt with new components if the supplier is unwilling to refit the supplied parts.

    In all circumstances, any removed parts should be returned to the customer (ie: if you retrofitted a £100 headset on the original frame, and it wouldn’t fit the replacement frame, I’d want my posh headset back in a bag, complete, and an OEM headset fitted on the replacement frame).

    All costs associated with the frame failure should be met by the warranty, surely?

    Or a new-model equivalent bike straight from the factory, with non-original parts stripped from the returned back and supplied bagged and labelled (as these parts are yours, as not supplied with the bike).

    Premier Icon P20
    Full Member

    I think that they have priced it to get the bike back to a working condition. I would imagine they are not happy to hand a bike back if its in dangerous condition, which looking at other posts about broken shifters and cassettes seems to be the case.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    £40 doesn’t go very far at RRP or shop prices though does it?

    GX cassette – £150
    Mech – £90
    Cable – £20
    Chain – £30
    Chainring – £30
    Brake bleed – £20
    Disks – £30 each
    Pads – £20 and end
    BB – £40

    That’s £450 and not hard to imagine a shop declaring that much as being worn out and not wanting the liability of fitting it.

    If you don’t want to replace it then I’d 2nd what others said and just ask for it all back to do it yourself if they won’t do it. But be honest, that cassette is knackered and if the rest of the moving parts are at a similar state then you’re probably well overdue some maintenance!

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Given the supplier asked for the whole bike back, you should receive a whole bike in return, either built up with all the parts/components as returned, with minimal replacements to meet the “standards” on the replacement frame, or rebuilt with new components if the supplier is unwilling to refit the supplied parts…

    …All costs associated with the frame failure should be met by the warranty, surely?

    WTF?! NO!

    Send a whole bike back by all means – the shop will strip it down and send the frame off, that’s part and parcel of customer service and warranty claim (bear in mind that the vast vast majority of punters can barely take a wheel off to fix a puncture, never mind strip a bike down).

    But they’re not then going to give you a new groupset FOC if you happen to have ridden the old one to within an inch of its life (and judging by that cassette in the linked thread, several miles past the end of its life…)

    If a new frame requires new parts to make it safe and serviceable, they will SELL you those new parts – possibly at discount or possibly fit them FOC but you breaking a FRAME, does not mean you get a whole new BIKE free of charge.

    Premier Icon mtbfix
    Full Member

    The parts that you list are general consumables but you don’t list what the bits actually are. If you’re getting X0 kit then maybe it’s a bargain. If the frame is being replaced under warranty then the shop may he obliged by the supplier to carry out the work so they know it goes back out in A1 condition, not returning two weeks later because a BB and HS have been fitted with a mallet and now creak.

    Premier Icon toby
    Full Member

    If that cassette is representative of the state of the bike, then it’s seeming rather more reasonable. Whether it’s reasonable that the bits are worn out after the use it’s had is another matter.

    Charging for cables still seems cheeky as they’d presumably still fit new ones if the bike was rebuilt after a week and with unworn components.

    I’d say your choices boil down to

    * Pay it, get a virtually new bike back

    * Ask for new frame and the rest of the bits from your bike unassembled

    * Ask if they can spec lower spec consumable parts to bring the cost down.

    If a new frame requires new parts to make it safe and serviceable, they will SELL you those new parts

    I’d still say that depends whether it’s wear or compatibility, though. “You need new brakes because yours are worn out” is different to “You need new brakes because this years frames are flat mount.” If I’d bought the bike complete, I’d expect the latter case to be the problem of someone in the supply chain (or they can replace with a 2-year old NOS frame).

    Premier Icon james
    Free Member

    Some things I’d not considered in the above so thank you.
    I’ll try and answer a few questions, some of the answers were in my OP ..
    Direct to Consumer brand, UK
    Offering a 2019 frame from a 2018 which I believe was unchanged, I know they changed from normal SRAM to DUB SRAM cranks, did BB shells have to alter to fit DUB BBs?
    Quoted parts at SRAM RRP (brake pads £46, rotors £95 etc), BUT they’ve said I can source my own parts. I’ve got some bits at home
    I would never expect a complete new bike. If I’d known they’d wanted it in faultless condition I’d have sorted most of it out before sending
    I actually swapped some nice replacement parts for some old ones just so I wasn’t running the risk of postal loss/damage .. whoops
    I’ve been a serial frame swapper/rebuilder over the years so faff aside, mechanicing isn’t an issue, though I see the point above about headset/BB misfitting by unknown customers or refitting pressfit BBs for eg.
    Only the dropper is internally routed, this could be the £7 for cables so thats not to worry about
    They actually said the rotors have life left in them so could be reused. Brake pads I have stock of
    Drivetrain is worn yes, I hadn’t anticipated it being an issue for rebolting onto the frame

    Premier Icon RamseyNeil
    Free Member

    Looks like they are doing you a favour . Labour is chargeable on warranty claims and they have quoted FOC to switch the parts over .

    Premier Icon Superficial
    Free Member

    If your stuff is really all knackered then they’ve got a point. You risk damaging the new frame in some cases, although that’s perhaps slightly melodramatic.

    If you think the parts are fine and you’re comfortable doing your own spannering, just get them to send everything back unbuilt. I can’t see how they could refuse that. You might want to ask them to fit ‘critical’ items like BB and headset so you can’t balls up the warranty by damaging the frame yourself.

    did BB shells have to alter to fit DUB BBs?

    Not if the old one was GXP, no.

    Premier Icon jkomo
    Full Member

    Did I miss where it said what bike is?

    Premier Icon csb
    Full Member

    You bought a bike not a frame. So the warranty imho should return you to a useable bike without loss.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    csb – not if all his parts were worn out. No way should a frame warrenty mean new drivetrain unless its incompatible with the stuff off the old one.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    You bought a bike not a frame. So the warranty imho should return you to a useable bike without loss.

    Incorrect. If you buy a bike, use it for 2 years, then the frame breaks, the company shouldn’t have to replace all the bits that are worn out due to use. Similarly, they can’t send you a bike that isn’t safe. Hence charging to replace bits that need replacing, but aren’t covered by the warranty.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    You bought a bike not a frame. So the warranty imho should return you to a useable bike without loss.

    No. You buy a bike and everything on the bike will have some form of warranty on it.

    Break the frame, you return the bike to the shop/dealer (because that’s who your contract is with), they contact the manufacturer and deal with the replacement.

    Manufacturer can offer: new for old (in which case there might be compatibility issues as I mentioned earlier if they’ve changed the frame design between original and replacement).
    New old stock (identical frame kept in storage for that sort of purpose)
    Different product of equivalent value (so if they no longer make that frame and have no old stock, they could offer the “next best thing”)

    It’s not up to the frame manufacturer to replace any components. If there’s a compatibility issue, you’d expect a conversation with the shop and the customer to say “it’s a new frame but it’s going to require a new [thingy] because we’ve changed [whatsit] but the shop will see you right” and come to an arrangement re pricing, fitting etc.

    If the customer has ridden the bike into the ground and everything on it is worn to ****, the shop won’t rebuild it for reasons stated earlier – safety, liability and general PITA.

    The shop has a duty to see him back with a bike and if they need to sell him parts to make it fit to ride, that’s part of the duty. The manufacturer just has to replace the frame.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Warranty is to replace early failure through manufacturing or design issue.

    It’s not replacing consumables which you have had two years use of.

    I’d say that £450 of consumables + new frame after two years of use is a good deal and more than fair.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I’d say that £450 of consumables + new frame after two years of use is a good deal and more than fair.

    Very much this. You’ve got an opportunity to get a virtually brand new bike for £450. Spotless new frame. Brand new drivetrain. Scrub up the remaining bits like wheels, bars etc and it’s all being rebuilt for you.

    You’d have had to spend that money on the knackered drivetrain at some point, why not now?!

    Premier Icon n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    If the parts they want £460 for would cost you £460 to source and they’re aren’t obvious upgrades on those parts for much more money, sounds reasonable… I’d ask for the old parts to be sent back too, as some might make useful emergency spares.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    as some might make useful emergency spares

    Judging from the cassette I assume you mean “ohhh I’m out of emergency, fortunately I’ve got a spare” not “oh it’s an emergency, fortunately I’ve got a spare”

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