Walkers on mountain bile trails

they might have been the same dongs that insisted on walking along a footpath whilst HTN was on.
The footpath was officially closed and signs had been posted for a week.

I think Ton (who was marshalling) had a word.

I came round a corner at Bedgebury once to find a family picnicking on the singletrack – picnic blanket laid out and everything. I could have stopped short of them, but I might have accidentally let my front wheel drift into their potato salad. 😀

(In my defence, I had been brought down a few minutes earlier by a family walking on the black section who I stopped for, was told by them that it was clear to come through so I went for the drop-off only to have the kid fall into the trail in the landing zone. I hit the brakes to avoid him, went over the drop and somersaulted. I was still feeling battered, sore and grumpy, so the potato salad got it!)

What is the staus of the way marked mtb trail – in Surrey the way marked trails are all bridleways ?

If they are bridleways, you as the cyclist are legally obliged to give way to other users, i am assuming that CROW hasn’t superseded the 1968? act that allowed cyclists to use bridleways.

It’s horses that do it for me, possibly because my ex-wife was a riding instructor and equines contributed to our marriage demise!
Of course I slow down and avoid horses and usually get a wave and thanks but a minotiy are bloody minded and awkward, probably what they are saying about us.

What is the staus of the way marked mtb trail

These were constructed 3 years ago to run parallel to the bridleways/footpaths. As we have to apply for closures for HTN I know what everything is around there and these have no status.

What about bikers fixing punctures on the trail? Literally in the middle of the trail, bike upside down, wheels off, usually at the bottom of a fast section round a blind corner. Seen that happen too many times.

Whatever the style of the warning HtS gave to the walkers, his warning is appropriate and if the walkers chose to ignore a well-meaning warning that they could get hurt then they’re idiots…

Walking on a designated biking trail is likely to cause an accident. If you’ve been given a warning of this and persist in walking on it then you’re a fool.

Bridleways IMO are different – walkers/dogs/horses have a right to be there and we should ride accordingly. But the whole point of one-way mountain bike trails is for riding bikes… in the same way that footpaths are for walkers only and riding on them is illegal and stupid

footpaths are for walkers only and riding on them is illegal and stupid

I’d propose that the law is stupid, and needs to be changed.

I’d propose that the law is stupid, and needs to be changed.

Open access?

would this not allow walkers on most bike trails?

If they are bridleways, you as the cyclist are legally obliged to give way to other users

Yes I appreciate that, that was my point – the OP said they were waymarked as MTB trails, the Surrey example would be bike give way, but a trail centre is likely to be a different story.

I’d propose that the law is stupid, and needs to be changed.

That’s fine as an opinion, so campaign for it but in the meantime as a cyclist on a footpath you are in the wrong

Surely it must be obvious to everyone that you cannot generalise, some people are @rseholes whether they be on foot, horse or bike

Open access does it for me. Open it all up, one mad free-for-all no conditions no rules, rationale: walkers will always walk wherever they want, cheeky trials will always be cheeky,

Also, remove styles, replace with jumps.

Bridleways IMO are different – walkers/dogs/horses have a right to be there and we should ride accordingly. But the whole point of one-way mountain bike trails is for riding bikes…

This is probably the most sensible & sensible point made so far. I’m a very considerate and courteous joint ROW user but the point of bike trails is to allow you to left your hair down and ride a little quicker. Do I take account of the “what might be around the corner” risk assessment -hell yes, but I still ride a lot quicker with less caution. The first thing I do if I crash at a trail centre is get of the the trail as quick as possible – the thought of having a gentle bimble walk knowingly along a trail centre route could surely only be done by someone a bit clueless.

It’s a shame really – you would have thought the red sock brigade would embrace the thought of mtb tools getting their rocks off out of the way thus reducing the temptation to do daft stuff on footpaths.

cyclist on a footpath you are in the wrong

…unless you have permission from the landowner

Bridleways IMO are different – walkers/dogs/horses have a right to be there and we should ride accordingly. But the whole point of one-way mountain bike trails is for riding bikes…

This is probably the most sensible & succinct point made so far. I’m a very considerate and courteous joint ROW user but the point of bike trails is to allow you to let your hair down and ride a little quicker. Do I take account of the “what might be around the corner” risk assessment -hell yes, but I still ride a lot quicker with less caution. The first thing I do if I crash at a trail centre is to get the hell off the trail as quickly as possible – the thought of having a gentle bimble walk knowingly along a trail centre route could surely only be done by someone a bit clueless.

It’s a shame really – you would have thought the red sock brigade would embrace the thought of mtb tools getting their rocks off out of the way thus reducing the temptation to do daft stuff on footpaths.

footpaths are for walkers only and riding on them is illegal

…isn’t it in fact a ‘trespass’ against the landowner, and not a criminal offense (unless a specific bylaw exists)? Isn’t it the case that the landowner can provide permission to use a footpath for cycling?

…isn’t it in fact a ‘trespass’ against the landowner, and not a criminal offense (unless a specific bylaw exists)? Isn’t it the case that the landowner can provide permission to use a footpath for cycling?

I think/hope you are right. I live on my employer’s land and have permission to use my bike on a loop around the site, some of which is a public footpath. I ride it courteously but it seems to really wind the red socks up when I (politely) inform them I have permission and provide them with a mobile and phone number to check it out.

live and let live here, but really ! would they walk in the middle of the road ?

Probably not, but if UK is anything like Sweden they’d certainly walk in the middle of a bike lane.

…isn’t it in fact a ‘trespass’ against the landowner, and not a criminal offense (unless a specific bylaw exists)? Isn’t it the case that the landowner can provide permission to use a footpath for cycling?

Its not illegal to ride on a footpath, and you can get permission to ride across it. Essentially all a footpath means is that you have a ‘right’ enshrined in law to walk across that land, whatever the landowner says. That right does not extend to cycling across it, so if you are cycling you don’t have a ‘right’ enshrined in law to ride it against the wishes of the landowner. However it is not a criminal offence to do so without permission.

The landowner can ask you to stop cycling on his land, and if you continue after he has asked you to stop then he can potentially take you to civil court. This of course relies on him knowing who you are so that he can take you to court. At court all he can do is sue you for damages caused by ‘trespass’, which unless you get an incredibly unsympathetic (and arguably biased) judge will be £0, since riding a bike along a bit of muddy track that loads of people walk down anyway does no real harm to the landowner.

well this is a thread that has had me searching for the double face palm…

I’ve met obnoxious horse riders at Cannock that rode the trails. When we said we didn’t want to spook their horses they suggested we went somewhere else.

Walkers in the Marin trail (big group determined to walk it all)

I know scotland is different but had dog walkers on the Mabie trails (weekend & busy) suggested there was a whole forest out there but got the usual I can go anywhere reply. My response was I would try and avoid the dogs as they are only going where they are being taken but I’m not risking myself for you.

Couple of right noobs on mountain bikes riding round Kirrochtree the wrong way on a Sunday – they had never seen the 1 way signs as they approached them all from the wrong side.

Some of these people have the right to be there. It doesn’t make it a good idea.

I will bin the bike off the trail if I have to avoid some thing that should/could be there. If not I’m going to do what hurts me least.

When new trails are built for bikes, in places that had no trails before in ways that make then awkward to walk on then people are just being idiots.

I share the countryside, I have ridden cheeky trails and footpaths but I know that I am in the wrong in those situations. MTFU and accept it. When riding a footpath you don’t do it in the middle of the day with a big group. You stop for other users etc.

There are heaps of rules that are in place for new trails to minimise risk and conflict by managing speed at areas of interaction – ever wondered why trails all have that little dog leg at the fireroad. Would probably suggest mentioning it to the land owner/operator as they don’t want potential for accidents. Perhaps there signs are not good enough.

One thing that doesn’t appear to be mentioned here is that a lot of mountain bike trails are not well marked, and so in many, many instances it’s a very easy mistake to make.

And so it’s probably best not to get so angry about it and expect to happen across a stray from time to time. It’s no biggy.

and that you should ALWAYS ride assuming that round the next blind corner is a fallen 5 year old in your way.

I’ve read the whole thread and thought quite a bit about this. I must also point out that I do not ride at trail centres. So, whilst I would never wish harm on anyone at all, I just couldn’t ride in the style advised and quoted above. It’s so unlikely that a fallen child is around the next corner in the middle of the woods that I couldn’t bring myself to hold back… Yes, I do feel selfish saying this but I’ve never hit anyone in 18 years of riding and I always go as fast as possible.

Maybe I’ve got my Hope hub to thank for this, that buzz is far more that the ring from a bell!!

Fort Bill born & bred old man’s a Munro bagging serious wolly-socker, phoned me one night having a proper go at “us cyclists” after coming back from A & E.

“Where were you pops?”
“Just up Nevis Range”…
“The bit from the Cafe to the summit”
“Aye”
“Walking?”
“Aye”

“That’s the downhill bit”

“That’l explain the shouting then.”

A path’s a path. Cheers Dad.

If I go to Golspie I am a bit wary on the section posted below but I do try and let the brakes off as much as possible. Remember what happened at Golspie years ago on VTOL? Rider gets air as he knows the trail so well but unluckily spots a walker as he’s in the air. Damaged back and airlifted off.

Walker had a broken arm. (If I’m wrong I’m sure someone will correct me)

The landowner can ask you to stop cycling on his land, and if you continue after he has asked you to stop then he can potentially take you to civil court.

By which time you’re stuffed. this is because some interpretations of the current law suggests that a landowner could not only peruse for damages for riding a bike on a pubic footpath, but could also pursue you for damages for pushing your bike on a footpath So you’ll need airlifting out by chopper
This is why the law is an arse, although test case law seems to be fairly non existent.

Not true apparently:

“Pushing a cycle on a footpath was a grey area in law but has now been resolved – anyone pushing a bicycle is a “foot-passenger” (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441) and is not “riding” it.”

It is also incidental either way, since there does not appear to ever have been a case of a person sued for trespass for cycling on a footpath.

Just been out for a ride in the kent downs [leaves providing a great, if slippy barrier to the mud!] and ended up on a footpath by mistake. Loads of walkers about, nothing but smiles and greetings.

Even stopped a couple of proper ramblers to ask how to get back to bridleway as we knew we shouldn’t be on a foot path, they thought i was nuts and began pointing out other footpaths they thought we might enjoy riding on.

I guess it takes all sorts……

I also ride in Kent and have never had a single problem with riding on a footpath. I guess we only get casual walkers here and not the full-on militant ramblers that seem to trouble more “outdoorsy” areas of the country.

they thought i was nuts and began pointing out other footpaths they thought we might enjoy riding on.

😀

…as an interesting addition to my little tale.

Found out today that there will be signs advising walkers not walk on the new MTB trails in Philips (adjacent to where my little fracas occurred) and signs telling cyclists to keep off the footpaths.

It’s been getting worse at Ashton Court with each week that passes! Yes I am aware which parts are shared access.

At the weekend I mentioned to 4 separate groups that they were on/about to go on a mountain biking trail, all bar one group were surprised and asked where the walking trail was and I pointed them in the right direction. Despite the clear markings on posts by the side of the trail.

Joggers wearing headphones walking/jogging down the trail, they don’t move, some oncoming..

It’s not just foot traffic either, There was a guy with a young lad going the wrong way on the trail, so I let him know its one way traffic, and he’s going the wrong way. He acknowledged that he knew that and carried on.. WTF.

I think better signage is needed, and some signs showing the walkers where they should be heading!

I struggle with long sentences so dunno if it’s been discussed in pages 2-4 but…

normally I’d say rider should be able to stop in the distance they can see, so far so common sense.

But what about downhill trails? Some of those have obstacles that can’t be rolled and have to be hit at certain (high) speeds. So if course designers are going to have these features on open courses there’s some responsibility for walkers to keep off the trails? (crashed rider is still a possibility, can any of the DH crew tell us what happens then?

WHat then?

and that you should ALWAYS ride assuming that round the next blind corner is a fallen 5 year old in your way.
I’ve read the whole thread and thought quite a bit about this. I must also point out that I do not ride at trail centres. So, whilst I would never wish harm on anyone at all, I just couldn’t ride in the style advised and quoted above. It’s so unlikely that a fallen child is around the next corner in the middle of the woods that I couldn’t bring myself to hold back… Yes, I do feel selfish saying this but I’ve never hit anyone in 18 years of riding and I always go as fast as possible.

I probably should have clarified when I posted that that I was talking about when riding in areas that have a lot of mixed use and are generally quite busy, ie: trail centres etc. When out in the wilderness I certainly don’t expect as many people to be there and probably relax a bit more, but I think it still comes down to being able to stop in the distance you can see, but normally that is actually quite a long way ahead.

RE: DONK, it’s a genuine pickle…

I do think anyone who ventures onto a DH track like that is putting the themselves and others in potential danger and they really shouldn’t.

Problem is they are *allowed* to be there (in most cases), it’s a funny situation, if we were talking about a purpose built private track, it would be different, walkers wouldn’t be allowed, it would probably be access controlled etc.

But on public land it’s a different story, even on greenlanes/RUP/BOAT etc where MX bikes are allowed, or bridleways with horses, you expect them to give way to walkers, as we are expected to do, but I guess MTB is in a pretty unique situation of having ‘purpose built’ trails intended to be ridden quickly, but on land that is open to everyone, you don’t get that with horses, motorbikes etc.

How do you approach that? either restricted access on private land, which I’m sure most MTBers are probably against in general as it pushes the argument for reducing our access rights, the alternative if you want to be able to ride on public land is to conduct yourself accordingly and give way. Or.. make it illegal for walkers to go on bike trails? never gonna happen and unfair to them in the same way it’s unfair to us.

As I said, it is a real pickle…

Whenever I see walkers coming up singletrack that they shouldn’t be on (eg CyB) I just shout “Get the **** off”, go death grips and hope for the best.

They tend to get out the way.

If you hit 1 you get 1 brownie point. 2 for red socked ramblers. 3 for a chav and 4 for Audi drivers. You get an extra point for serious injuries that land them in A&E. Two pedestrians is a double-kill and worth an extra 2 points etc.

Also I paint kill marks on the side of my bike whenever I hit one, like WW2 fighter pilots did.

Also, I’m joking, before someone sues me.

i’ll continue to use footpaths, whether greeted with hatred or a smile, i simply couldnt care less…

lifes to short, i’ll just give them a ‘smug’ smile if they decide to abuse me on a footpath

great attitude i know, but i really couldnt care less

Binners story is pretty shocking. I think i’d be more than a little pissed of if walkers forced me off a boardwalk.

Did once encounter a guy picking mushrooms in Glentress at the freeride park, told him the downslope of a jump probably wasn’t the best place to pick mushrooms. He looked at me like i’d just landed from outer space and carried on picking his ‘shrooms

How do you approach that? either restricted access on private land, which I’m sure most MTBers are probably against in general as it pushes the argument for reducing our access rights, the alternative if you want to be able to ride on public land is to conduct yourself accordingly and give way. Or.. make it illegal for walkers to go on bike trails? never gonna happen and unfair to them in the same way it’s unfair to us.

Totally agree. I think there could be better signage at trail centres. Most of the downhill tracks I have been to have very clear signs, instructing you that it may well result in serious injury if you’re to step foot on it. I’m pretty sure that will keep your average rambler at bay.

Perhaps that could be expanded to include some of the faster descents on red and black routes around trail centres? Certainly there could be more clarity on routes…there’s been times when I’ve struggled to find my way, nevermind to know what bits to keep off when you’re adjoining from one of a multitude of adjoining public footpaths…

You have to remember too though that trail centres occupy massive areas of forests, covering miles, upon miles. You can’t expect to have it all to yourself, and you will encounter someone somewhere along the line.

We need to learn to share to some degree.

Unless they’re on striding edge most walkers should be able to take a couple of steps to the side to clear your path. I guess bike tracks just appeal to the “don’t want to get boots middy” brigade who are scared of a spending a couple of seconds standing in a bit of wet grass watching yr awesomeness.

I agree with the comments about speed and control, I think the only place for flat-out is when you’re between the tapes and being looked after by marshalls, or when you’ve sent a guinea pig down first to check the trail is clear 😉

Curiouslly we have footpaths a round us where you’re much less likely to meet a walker than on most trail centre descents.

Totally agree. I think there could be better signage at trail centres. Most of the downhill tracks I have been to have very clear signs, instructing you that it may well result in serious injury if you’re to step foot on it. I’m pretty sure that will keep your average rambler at bay.

Perhaps that could be expanded to include some of the faster descents on red and black routes around trail centres? Certainly there could be more clarity on routes…there’s been times when I’ve struggled to find my way, nevermind to know what bits to keep off when you’re adjoining from one of a multitude of adjoining public footpaths…

Be careful what you wish for. If the landowners perceive there is a problem of conflict between different users, the easiest solution for them isn’t to improve signage.