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  • U.S. Presidential Election 2020
  • Premier Icon fazzini
    Full Member

    He sounded a broken man in that last press conference.

    I only heard a portion of the conference on the radio news, but it did sound like the flow of whatever drugs he has been on (if he has been on any for the last who-knows how many months or years, may have been switched off. Definitely didn’t come across as his usual belligerent self. If that’s a tactic to sound more ‘considered/legitimate’ – it’s not working in my opinion.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    @frankconway – the problem is amoral populism combined with social media, IMO. It’s a deadly mix. We aren’t that much better here.

    . If that’s a tactic to sound more ‘considered/legitimate’ – it’s not working in my opinion.

    I don’t think it’s a tactic.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    I watched the speech live on the Sky News website. They showed the full thing then did reactions in the studio with an ex-Whitehouse staffer.

    I watched it live on BBC news, and the second he finished they clearly stated that what had just been broadcast contained a large number of completely unsubstantiated allegations, with no evidence provided to back them up. They kept reiterating this.

    Is there a possibility that it’s Trump who could end up in court as a result of that, once he’s out of office? Surely a lot of that diatribe of accusations crossed legal boundries?

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    Basically the only likely results for them is that:

    a> their challenges get thrown out as spurious
    b> their challenges result in a recount which exposes their original premise as spurious

    I believe there is something else going on as well. To do with counting late ballots which went to supreme court with a 4:4 ‘carry on but keep them separate as it will be appealed’. I’m not interested enough to refresh my memory, but I’m guessing if they can stop the count, get the appeal through and have the remaining late ballots disqualified then they win.

    I am not 100% confident of the above, so welcome any corrections!

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    The soft spoken approach is a tactic… his opponents may well see it as a sign that he is “deflated”… but I think he is trying to come across as measured and in control to his followers. The response to Biden’s speech will have prompted this I suspect. Of course… if you dispassionately look at what he actually said, he’s screaming nonsense… but the tone will help his followers think otherwise.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Premier Icon Jamze
    Full Member

    So, the ruling is still the same they haven’t broken any laws.

    That will be for the supreme court to decide. Arguing that you can observe signature checks from 100′ away is going to be a challenge.

    So worst case, they re-check all those ballots with people 6 foot away. You don’t chuck them away like Rudi keeps saying.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Can it increase enough now to make recount calls looks illegitimate? Not sure it can. Hopefully it won’t matter when the other states call.

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    So worst case, they re-check all those ballots with people 6 foot away. You don’t chuck them away like Rudi keeps saying.

    I don’t know. But my understanding is you have to check the postmark and signature on the envelope which is discarded during the count, so a recount can’t spot fraud (ineligible ballots might be a better term). Hence the use of observers.

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Full Member

    Biden just turned Georgia. Now in front.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    This time round they have the benefit of four years of experience of Trump. Four years of endless lies, insults, stupidity, racism, climate change denying, law breaking, nepotism and staggering incompetence. Yet, even with all of this compelling evidence, around 70 million Americans still think he should be the next president. He wasn’t slapped down, smashed away at the polls. He nearly won.

    The problem isn’t Trump, the problem is America.

    Could probably argue that the UK isn’t much better in that respect. It has the rigged voting system, gerrymandered boundaries, FPTP and (recently anyway) has been run entirely on populist, broad-brush, reactionary policies.

    Boris is more or less known to be a pound-shop Trump – better educated and less obnoxious but no less of serial liar, cheat, philanderer and racist with a similar lack of interest in details. Yet he won a staggering majority after years of almost hung parliament / coalition Government.

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Someone(US academic in UK) was just on BBC saying that it will only go to Supreme Court of US if the State Courts cannot come to a judgement. Maybe there isn’t a right to appeal to SC on election issues as each State sets it’s own legislation and SC will only intervene if asked to by state judiciary?

    Who knows

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Full Member

    I agree Crazy Legs. I was going to post similar but I can only manage to post one thoroughly depressing post per day.

    Premier Icon ferrals
    Free Member

    Biden up in Georgia now! (900 odd votes)

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Full Member

    I don’t know. But my understanding is you have to check the postmark and signature on the envelope which is discarded during the count, so a recount can’t spot fraud. Hence the use of observers.

    I think you’re overestimating what the observers do? They are there to monitor generally that the process is good. From news reports I’ve seen, they might get involved when folks raise a flag with an issue with a ballot – but no way can they sit on each person’s shoulder checking every step, signature and date.

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    no way can they sit on each persons shoulder checking every step, signature and date.

    Yup that would be absurd and take far far far far far too long. Especially when there’s no evidence to suggest it’s necessary.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Full Member

    . To do with counting late ballots which went to supreme court with a 4:4 ‘carry on but keep them separate as it will be appealed’. I’m not interested enough to refresh my memory, but I’m guessing if they can stop the count, get the appeal through and have the remaining late ballots disqualified then they win.

    Yeah that is happening but in PA,but they aren’t being counted yet.

    And there are enough of votes that arrived before the day still uncounted that Biden doesn’t need them anyway

    Trump has lost

    Premier Icon white101
    Full Member

    I can’t believe in a country where over 150 million people, spanning 2 or 3 time zones just scribbled something on a bit of paper and the Prez and his cronies want everything counted at Google-speed when the system of voting is akin to 2 old tins cans connected by a bit string.

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    I think your over-estimating what the observers do. They are there to monitor generally that the process is good. From news reports I’ve seen, they might get involved when folks raise a flag with an issue with a ballot – but no way can they sit on each persons shoulder checking every step, signature and date.

    I’m not really claiming magnitude, that’s for the courts. It’s entirely possible that a case can be made that observers were prevented from observing. If that’s the case a recount doesn’t fix the problem.

    If they are successful in the case I don’t know what the outcome might be. It could just be a slap on the wrist and get your shit together next time. No idea.

    Anyway, that’s what all the fuss is about.

    Premier Icon twistedpencil
    Full Member

    Georgia has now flipped…

    917 votes to Biden.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    This time round they have the benefit of four years of experience of Trump. Four years of endless lies, insults, stupidity, racism, climate change denying, law breaking, nepotism and staggering incompetence. Yet, even with all of this compelling evidence, around 70 million Americans still think he should be the next president. He wasn’t slapped down, smashed away at the polls. He nearly won.

    The problem isn’t Trump, the problem is America.

    As I mentioned earlier, now I’ve had the chance to hear American “friends of friends” on FB, a lot of folks, mainly small business owners, feel they have done OK under his leadership – lower taxes, business growing, I’m all right Jack, so they ignore all the crap. Same as we had under Thatcher in many parts of the UK I guess. Self interest above the greater good I’d possibly more an issue over there than over here.

    I don’t like it, but having heard their points, I kind of understand where they are coming from.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    And PA’s on the way –

    “Biden is averaging 80.0% – Biden needs 52.67%”

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Full Member

    Yup that would be absurd and take far far far far far too long. Especially when there’s no evidence to suggest it’s necessary.

    Let me guess they only need to check the states where trump has lost? 🙄

    Otherwise they’ll be rechecking all 103,000,000 postal votes cast this year!!!!

    Premier Icon white101
    Full Member

    I’m sure somewhere there will be a definition of the role and scope of the observer, surely given the bobbins thats gone on in the last 6 months regarding fraud and rigging that no state would drop the ball on procedure?

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Full Member

    Anyway, that’s what all the fuss is about.

    Agreed. It’s actually only one of many cases they’ve raised. Somewhere else they are challenging the AI software they use for checking signatures. They’re throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping a proportion of it sticks.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    I think you’re overestimating what the observers do?

    Can’t speak for the US, but I’ve been a vote counter in the UK and the observers just milled about looking fairly disinterested. They were allowed to approach the desk but not talk to you or distract you.

    Premier Icon amedias
    Free Member

    I don’t know. But my understanding is you have to check the postmark and signature on the envelope which is discarded during the count, so a recount can’t spot fraud (ineligible ballots might be a better term). Hence the use of observers.

    Then that would (should) come down to the question “is there evidence of fraud?”

    If no evidence then count stands as legal process followed

    If evidence then review evidence and decide on remedy, either recount if possible, or invalidating (only) the ballots with evidence of fraud.

    You don’t, and can’t chuck out all the ballots without evidence of fraud, and so far the only evidence being presented is “we’re losing therefore it’s wrong”

    Judges may be partisan, but they’re not stupid, and will follow the law. They will also be fully aware, no matter how partisan they are, that their career will span more than one administration…

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    Donald’s tactical masterstroke of signalling well in advance he was going after mail-ins means that states have had time to make sure their procedures are watertight and not vulnerable to challenge. Another win for the Trump train!

    It’s heading for a fairly comprehensive victory for Biden. Could have been even better were it not for the hobbling of USPS to delay ballots. Only downside is the Senate race, but even that is pretty tight with a couple of slots in Georgia going to run-offs in January. There’s a possibility that the disintegration of the Trump brand will change the outcome there as well.

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Anyway, that’s what all the fuss is about.

    The fuss is because the President of the US is making unfounded allegations that undermine his country’s democracy. So much so that the major news channels had to cut away from his speech

    His lack of respect for his role, the founding importance of democracy in a free country and the rule of law is shocking. He seems to think his ego is more important than the country he leads

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Full Member

    There was a QAnon post on 8kun talking about how “the trap was set”, claiming the ballots were secretly watermarked with IDs linked to blockchain and any minute now the Republicans will reveal this and expose the whole system as corrupt. Oh yes. Any… minute…

    No word if JFK Jr will be heading this operation. 😂

    Premier Icon white101
    Full Member

    @olddog thats how it’s been his whole life so far for him, ain’t gonna change his spots now. His ego is the only thing he has. In a country that keeps on telling itself its the greatest in the world thats no surprise.

    EDIT: That Tugenhadt MP was on R4 yesterday discussing the complete erosion of democracy and how Trump was damaging the chances to step away from the growth of authoritarianism around the world, his lack of respect for his role was the main driver. He doesnt see himself as the president of the free world, but as Donald Trump leader of the world. Branding all the way.

    Premier Icon darthpunk
    Free Member

    There was a QAnon post on 8kun talking about how “the trap was set”, claiming the ballots were secretly watermarked with IDs linked to blockchain and any minute now the Republicans will reveal this and expose the whole system as corrupt. Oh yes. Any… minute…

    No word if JFK Jr will be heading this operation. 😂

    It embarrasses me that there was a time in my life I did believe some conspiracy theories, it’s like finding a picture from school when you had a mullet because you were trying to grow a pony tail

    Premier Icon grum
    Full Member

    It’s entirely possible that a case can be made that observers were prevented from observing

    Only if you’re a lying toad desperately clutching at straws though

    I don’t like it, but having heard their points, I kind of understand where they are coming from.

    It’s the economy, stupid.

    Premier Icon Jamze
    Full Member

    Interesting, I’ve noticed the White House is not putting any of Trump’s recent press conferences up on their official ‘Briefings & Statements’ web site. One of them could be viewed as campaign activity – but last night was an update to the nation from the James S. Brady briefing room.

    Premier Icon fingerbang
    Free Member

    I’m quite amused by the thought of a trump acolyte having to stand over someone sat down and sorting through papers, for hours and hours….and hours. You’re not allowed to look at your phone or take a toilet break cos that’s when the ‘fraud’ will take place.

    And it will cost trump 4 million dollars in admin costs. X how many states he’s challenging. And all for nothing

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    One of the joys of this will be watching the rats like Pence and Haley desperately trying to get the Trump stink off themselves for 2024. Imagine the carnage if Trump somehow stays out of prison and tries to get on the ticket again!

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Full Member

    It’s such utterly transparent nonsense.

    Gulliani complaining they didn’t call PA for Trump when 80% of the vote was counted. The remaining 20% represent 1.2 million votes, should they just ignore them because Trump was in front?

    Meanwhile in Arizona, they are calling for every vote to be counted because they see Biden’s lead narrowing.

    Its worth remembering these slow counts were a deliberate choice by the Republican state governments.

    This whole strategy is entirely pre-meditated

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Full Member

    If you were going to rig the election, wouldn’t you have done a better job on the Senate?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Full Member

    The senate run-offs are interesting

    The GOP jetisoning Trump may well alienate his base there, the GOP have to walk a fine line there

    You can bet that dem turnout will be thru the roof on those, while the reps could just stay home now their man has gone 😁

    Premier Icon Klunk
    Free Member

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