Turbo Training & Heart Rates

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  • Turbo Training & Heart Rates
  • djglover
    Member

    Sorry if this topic makes some forum users reel in disgust ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Any people regularly using the turbo?

    I have been for two weeks, but can never seem to get my HR above 165. I see over 170 quite regularly on the bike and 180’s running. I end the sessions in pain and do them on perceived effort, i’d just expected my HR to be higher?

    Are you rested enough/have you upped your training recently? Could be a cause.

    Otherwise i find i get too hot (even with the window wide open next to me) which affects my HR. I am off to buy a fan now!

    Too fit?

    Increase the resistance and keep the cadance high. I stupidly tried to see how hard I could work with HR aabove 200 and resistance high i started to have my vision grey out. Probably not good but I was working damn hard. I now set this as 10 on my perceived scale of suffering.

    djglover
    Member

    was rested enough for last nights session yes, but recently ramped up bike training from 8 to 12 hours a week.

    HTTP404
    Member

    In turbo training my HR never (very rarely) attains max HR. It usually tops out 8-10% of max.

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    People tend to record that their HR tends tobe higher when running than on the bike.

    I’ve not got enough mental strength to get my HR at levels like onehundredthidiot on the turbo, but have got it right up there on the track and racing cross.

    That said, last night I did get to 176 doing a tabata-lite session (am v unfit so not giving it full welly – max recorded HR is 194).

    mrblobby
    Member

    What sort of candence you riding? Generally higher cadence stresses cardio more than high torque. Also what sort of sessions are you doing?

    Second comments about being rested and getting a good fan. If I don’t have the windows open and a big fan going I find this can limit efforts as I quickly overheat.

    I think running does generate more stress, there’s probably a scientific explanation, using more muscle groups or something like that.

    djglover
    Member

    I am riding at just under 90 I think, I do tend to trend a bit low cadence / high torque

    Training in the garage, which is freezing, I have to wear a fleece whilst warming up

    Moda
    Member

    My max heart rate is 176 but i can get only 168 – 170 on the turbo on either high cadence(160/170rpm) with low watts or low cadence on a high wattage. As advised you need a decent fan as that can have quite an influence on your HR. If you not getting near your max heart rates on the strength sessions if you do these then you wont reap the benefit

    Did sufferfest angels last night ,thought id pretty much beat myself into the ground , nice 16" fan running which helps, looked on Garmin all three 8 minute climbs peaked at 165 bpm , can top out 181 bpm out on the road and never feel like im where I was at last night.So I assume the big fan blowing is a massive aid.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    Same here. Despite using the turbo in a wooden shed down the garden and needing a fleece to warm up, I soon heat up and on average my heart rate is lower indoor training. I have always put this down to no airflow.

    HTTP404
    Member

    By scrutinizing your max HR achieved – what are you trying to determine about your turbo session?

    Your HR is only an indicator of perceived effort and in the absence of a power meter a more useful tool on the turbo is a speedometer on the rear wheel to record your average speed during each interval and your distance over the complete session – complement this set-up with an HRM by all means.

    It’s useful to record this data. A garmin with HRM and the speed/cadence unit is ideal. You can then compare your data over time. Better than this, is the Trainerroad service but you have to pay a subs for this.

    Do a threshold test. And base your training around this. Whether this is HR or set speed on your turbo – up to you.

    Hopefully, what you achieve is a higher threshold – an ability to work harder for longer and an ability to recover faster.

    I don’t think anybody has achieved a threshold equal to their max HR.

    mrblobby
    Member

    Second this ^^^

    Trainer road is awsum. Just do the 8 minute test and base your efforts on power.

    I’d second or third using theshold HR and basing your zones off that instead of max HR which I think is very hard to measure accurately unless your are highly motivated or have someone motivating you.

    To the OP what sessions are you doing on the turbo and why do you expect to see the same HR as out on the road? Also I hope you mean you are sufferering and not in pain. If you are in pain stop doing whatever you’re doing.

    If you are overheating then your HR will be higher than you would expect for the effort you are putting in so you would expect to see higher not lower HR if you were overheating (you heart is working harder to pump blood to your extremities for cooling as well as pumping it to your legs).

    djglover
    Member

    uponthedowns, doing the sufferfest fight club, which is 5 intervals over an hour, but with some very hard efforts thrown in, and yeah, I mean suffer rather than pain

    I know my max HR is 186 from running training, and I expected to see it as high on the road due to the perceived suffering vs heart rate seeming low

    MS
    Member

    Ive often got max heart rate ont he turbo however not in the same way as on the road/mtb. I feel ont he turbo you have to build it up so much more!

    I did the sufferfest angels qworkout on Saturday in a cold garage and got 191 (196max). But thatw as only because I did push it on the last “climb”.

    I find on the turbo to reach max I have to be sitting at 90% of max for a period then just gradually up the cadence and the heart rate goes up. Are you doing sustained efforts on the turbo and how do they compare to rest periods on the turbo.

    A turbo sesh I dod on Monday was @ roughly 100 RPM . HR was steady for the forst few maybe goign up slightly. On the last 4 minutes though I had upped it every minute so HR got to 192. Legs were screaming though!

    Warmup
    4mins on, 2 mins off easy spinning
    6mins on, 2 mins off easy spinning
    8mins on, 2 mins off easy spinning
    6mins on, 2 mins off easy spinning
    4mins on, cool down

    Tom B
    Member

    I’ve always been able to hit well over 180bpm on the turbo. My cadence is generally 100 at least, often more.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    Re the comments on Angels, thats a more power based workout than cardio, so your heart isnt going to be working as hard as it would need to if you are doing more sprint work etc. From what I recall on Angels in the climbs its suggest a cadence of 70-80rpm.

    Try Revolver, that is 100+ rpm on the sprint bits.

    Me personaly I never use a heart rate monitor, maybe I should, but I find following a cadence is roughly enough for me.

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    176 or so on the Turbo/exercise/spin.

    184 on the road….

    I find it almost impossible to hit more than 176 on the static bikes.

    richardk
    Member

    Bike HR is usually lower than run HR, usually 8-10bpm lower for max effort. Mine is roughly comparable though – probably because I do more riding in groups than running (racing) in groups

    Even with Sufferfest videos, I usually find that my HR is higher when trying to keep up with a group ride on a climb compared to a turbo session. I need to be screaming the cadence on high resistance with the bike in a high gear to get the HR close to max on the turbo. Its not lack of effort either – it takes me 5 minutes to get off the trainer at the end of a workout

    Over the last month:

    Max HR on Downward Spiral – 171bpm
    Max HR on first climb of FoD Verderers 179bpm

    lazybike
    Member

    I find it better to work from threshold than max, ride a local 10 mile TT note your avg HR for the last 20mins, that will be your threshold. You can do this test on your own, but I find I get higher no’s in a TT.

    Just a thought, run HR is higher than cycling HR as it involves more muscles, maybe tubro HR is lower again as you don’t have to maintain stability and use even less muscles?

    lazybike
    Member

    Just a thought, run HR is higher than cycling HR as it involves more muscles

    the heart is just a muscle the activity won’t effect the max bpm….will it?

    djglover
    Member

    Yeah, I think the jolting of running adds around 10 bpm. I can certainly get my hr up much higher, much quicker running…

    lazybike
    Member

    I find it almost impossible to hit more than 176 on the static bikes.

    …..have you tried Tabata sessions?

    traildog
    Member

    the heart is just a muscle the activity won’t effect the max bpm….will it?

    Yes. Try cycling standing up and cycling sat down. Your HR will be higher standing. You are very stable on a trainer and sat down all the time. I think this has quite a factor on the Heart rates you are seeing.

    atlaz
    Member

    I use trainerroad as a few others here do. I don’t care about my max anything, just I follow the workouts. If it’s too easy or too hard, the software adjusts later rides to make it harder or easier.

    I know my max HR is 186 from running training, and I expected to see it as high on the road due to the perceived suffering vs heart rate seeming low

    Max heart rate is activity dependant. Running is weight bearing so you would expect a higher max HR for running. As an earlier poster pointed out just standing on the pedals when biking increases your heart rate as you are now weight bearing.

    I’ve never done the Fight Club but have done Angels which at the end is quite intense but by then I’m too knackered to get anywhere near my max HR. In any case I wouldn’t expect to see a max HR for any of the Sufferfest vids as they’re not designed for that. For max HR try a ramp test on the turbo after a thorough warm up.

    The recommendation to do a 10TT and take the last 20 mins as threshold heart rate is a good one and the zones will probably be more accurate than working from a max HR which may well be inaccurate.

    Love Tubs
    Member

    Again, not had time to read all of the above. FORGET using HR for bike training, it is not directly related to performance.

    You need to train using Watts (power); that is the bottom line, racing (or training) is all about power output over time of race followed by how well you can recover from that: the latter is somewhat of a โ€˜functionโ€™ of your prep.

    Granted, you can obtain a max HR for your age and use this to monitor that you’re not going OTT in each session and then correlate your HR improvements against power gains; no problem with that.

    Bottom line, train on HR alone, then prepare to fail/miss your objective.

    HTTP404
    Member

    ^^^ Sorry, I completely disagree with what love tubs has written.

    HRMs are not useless training aids. In fact, HRMs were the training aid of professionals before the arrival of power meters.
    You don’t need a power meter in order to train effectively.
    Read Time Effective Cycle Training by J B Medhus.
    Or the O’Bree training manual.

    A turbo trainer is the perfect tool for quality training as it offers consistency. Additionally, the devices for measuring your power, effort and work are perfectly accessible without the need for a power meter – uploading the GPX files onto one of the many sites – charts much of this all out for you.

    lazybike
    Member

    Its fair to say using a PM is a better way to measure effort, but a HRM is better than nothing….especially when combined with speed and cadence.

    HTTP404
    Member

    A power meter on a turbo trainer *alone* has little benefit over simply measuring speed.
    Using a power meter on a turbo trainer and then taking it to the open road is another story.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    A power meter on a turbo trainer *alone* has little benefit over simply measuring speed.

    For a fixed resistance perhaps, but in the real world.

    Well just to be different, power and HR together can give some interesting data. For example it can give an indication of when you have built a solid base by looking at HR drift on a long zone 2 ride. My hr varies a bit much to be used on its own as a rigid guide in training.

    It sort of seems that a power meter tells you how much you are doing/how much you are able to do. HRM seems to give an indication of how you are dealing with that level of exertion, maybe.

    Haze
    Member

    Same, highest I’ve hit on the turbo is 185 compared to 195 off it.

    Early days for me as regards figuring what everything means, not long had the HRM and thought I’d collect a load of numbers before sitting down and making some sense of it all.

    Last I read was LTHR is the figure to work off?

    lazybike
    Member

    It sort of seems that a power meter tells you how much you are doing/how much you are able to do. HRM seems to give an indication of how you are dealing with that level of exertion, maybe

    ….makes sense, I have a friend who’s done a sub 50 25TT, I asked why he doesn’t use a HRM, he said I don’t care what its reading I’m not slowing down.. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Mark N
    Member

    HRM and a basic cycle computer will give you a very good and cost effective base for training on a turbo. HRM’s have some lag so actual effort etc will not immediately show but they are still great tools. The HRM will give you an indication of input, Avg HR, then you have time and distance, output. Set your chosen HR zone and then off you go. Warmup and then reset the trip. Say in 30 mins you have travelled 13km before you then cool down. Repeat the same and you should see that for the same time and avg HR you will travel further. This shows your improvement. The turbo will give you the consistency that you will not get on the road/trail. The resistance will be the same each time which you will not get outside. Just be sure that the tyre pressure does not drift.

    Training is about getting further for same effort or less effort to get the same distance.

    I am not sure what trying to get to a higher HR is meant to achieve.

    thomthumb
    Member

    power meter is better than a hrm, which in turn is better then a cycle computer.

    HRM and a turbo isn’t a terrible way to train.

    mrblobby
    Member

    A speed sensor, an ant+ stick along with trainerroad will give you power measurements for not much cash. I believe it works well though can’t really comment as I have a power meter. (You could probably work out approximations based on wheel speed too.) Better than doing turbo work based on HR. HR is ok but there can be quite a variance based on conditions and fatigue, and there is also a lot of lag.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    I’m another one to the same. I have peaked at 201bpm on the bike, but max out on the turbo at 188.

    I don’t really use it to train with on the SF video’s as it’s perceived effort, but when i’m murdering myself on a static bike that’s all I get. Doesn’t bother me too much, it’s still doing me good ๐Ÿ™‚

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