the pump track is in the play area!

don't forget that the duke had a big claim from a horse rider who broke their neck a couple of years ago. Horse riders were not welcome for over a year I believe, until that was sorted.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't worried that something similar will happen with all the crazy new digging. I think he's right, but I'd hate to lose access to some of the best singletrack in the south east.

BTW, a load of 'no riding' signs appeared about a year ago, in the area around the roller coaster. Not sure of their legal status…

Guy's Guy's Guy's pleeeeeeease – I had to join this site just for the need to try and abate the idle gossip until some facts are known.

What is happening with trails legal or not and the said closure of them and the shore over buttermilk woods has allot to do with the gossip on these types of forums – Some of the well known trails you love and have done since the early 80's (without blowing trumpets have been some of my work) before the jump park was built – I stail maintain them and other trails, bramble cutting, raking etc for my sins – The shore was fine for ovder two years until it got wide spread on forums the secret was out then it lasted a matter of months before it vanished, enjoy but don't advertise the fact – other people read these forums as a covert insight into whats going on – Ok off soap box now.

Being members of the IMBA UK & British Cycliing i have contacted Bedford Estates london office who put me through to Woburn estates office. I have explained the issues that have been flying around as i ride the trails and the jump park and have sent detailed OS maps for clarification of Bedford Estates coverage – The estate manager is on vacation until june 7th who will advise us whats covered by the Bedford Estates / Woburn estates / and private lands.Greensands trust are only voluntery park wardens covering a small part and do not cover back wood charle wood and buttermilk wood(Roller coaster / RC2 & Hgans Run side of things off London end Lane this is the road the roller coaster spits us out on.

British cycling are now working with the forestry comission to work with local land owners and comunitys to promte mountain biking, build trail centres & trails and hold events, offering much needed revenue into local comunitys – I have fed this information into Bedford estates also, I have asked for a face to face meeting so lets see what comes of it.

The jump works well now apart from the little being left by idiots with no brains but still follows the guidlines set down when the threat of closure loomed many years back – when dump trucks full fullers earth where put there for us to build jumps (no woodedn structures) and i kind of think the lads have adhered to that.

With a logic head on I can't JCB's and bulldozers flattening all the trails over the 800 acres, as that will just make things an eye sore, it may transpire they flatten the jump park ??? why when it captures bikers to ride there and dig there?? many locals ride there and have sculpted the runs? Would the Duke & Dutches sitting on £490million be that close to the action/woods? all these questions will i hope be answered on the 7th of June or soon after – please feel free to drop me a mail if you want more info or want to be kept in the loop as to whats going on, and i'll send you the british cycling/forestry comission stuff.

thanks for your time in reading this – lets keep our fingers crossed things work out – mrspesh@gmail.com

Mark you heard anything yet?

mrspesh have we met, were you at any of the users meeting or involved in getting the Oak wood trails cut?
I've just had a word with a friend who is in touch with the chairman of the Greensand Trust and is our only direct link the the Duke.
The feedback I got sort of matches the gut feeling I've had recently which is basically don't do anything yet.
There have been times like this before and they've blown over, this might as well. What I'd really like to know is what sparked off this recent threat, which is not gossip or if it is it came from both the Greensand Trust and the Council.
Why now after allowing the construction of the jump site, the permit system and authorised trails until recently we have even been given permision to take 4X4s to trail management areas.
Even when we took up the ofer to show the MBR guys around permission was sought and granted from the Greensand Trust. And IIRC there was talk of extending the man made trails at Oak Wood?
All very confusing.

Just goes to prove that less money should be spent on trail centers 7 hours drive from where people actualy live, otherwise you just get people building trail centers where they do live. Much as I admire the 7 stanes as a great example of creating a (MTB) tourist industry in the are almost from scratch. It begs the question, who are they building it for, bikers or the local B&B's?

The problem is MTB'ing is now (almost) mainstream, you only have to look on magazine racks to se how popular it is, 6+ MTB mags in supermarkets, compare that to other sports like surfing/windsurfing/ski/board mags? But we've still nowhere to go an ride. Yes there are always bridleways, but be honest, what would you rather do, ride down the beast (probably one of the Peaks best known tracks) which is about 10ft wide, has 2 corners and takes about 2 minutes at the most if your having a slow day, or mile after mile of singletrack decent at a trail center? Or a better example, riding in the Chilterns where the singletrack is sparse and genreraly fairly straight or riding at Swinley?

We need a national body with some actual ghonads that bikers are actualy prepared to subscribe to (takeup with the CTC and IMBA is pittyfull compared to say the RYA in sailing) that can organise for more areas to be developed.

Ok all, as advised I have had a response from the Bedford Estates property manager today…….

this is the latest from Bedford Estates – It serves I guess in essence to put our minds at rest that " Bulldozers" are not about to start trundling in and out the trees flattening trails throughout the woods let alone the jump park.

He did not answer all my questions ie: total ownership of all the wooded areas covered in the 800 acres, outlined, whether they would be interested in a meeting with us & British cycling (forestry Commission) to form synergies to manage the trails etc etc. I have again asked for clarification on these points.

Cheers Mark …. read on…………….

Mark

Thank you for your email, it is of great concern to me how these rumours start. There is a three way agreement between, The Local Authority’s and the Bedford Estates covering Wavenden Heath access area. This agreement has expired and is being renegotiated this month.

The Greensands Trust are employed by the Local Authority to police the area.

Regards

xxxxxx xxxxxxx
Estates and Property Manager

http://www.discoverwoburn.co.uk

So could these rumors that originated from the Trust and council just be down to worries that if the Trust couldn't police the area because of their recent budget cuts, then the area would have been closed down?

Our contact is the Greensands Trust chairman, unfortunately his involvement is in land purchase and not cycling development.
What are the chances of IMBA UK getting their foot in the door? Because that's what the place needs.
Look at all the positives that have happened regards trails, permits, the play area signage etc. I'm led to believe from what Pat Adams once said that the area was once considered for the Mountain Mayhem it's that sort of thing that just shows how important the area is in biking terms, shame as I've said before that we couldn't get involved a decade ago.

I'll just cut and paste what I've heard from the other thread on this.

I went for a ride with my sister in law a few weeks back (at Woburn). She is a cycling officer in Leighton Buzzard, part of the cycle town initiative. This was her take, but she's not "at the table" so as she says its really hard to know exacty whats going on.

there are three party's envolved. Green sands trust who administer the current permit scheme, mid beds CC who are keen to promnote cycling and the "Duke" who owns the place.

The duke isn't keen on cycling in his wood.

There is a general view that the level of activity is very high and that the situation is unmanaged, THE Green sands trust and council proposed putting the whole thing on a more commercial footing. The Duke wasn't happy with this has sugested stopping access

My perspective is very mixed.

I think it is a brilliant cycling venue. In general users get on well. Went for a post ride drink on Sunday and in the pub people in Woburn sands afterwards people were plesaed to here the wood was busy with cyclists

However owning a wood full of trail building cyclists must be a huge legal head ache. I'd like to know how trail centres handle there legal responsibility. My hunch is that as long as the trail is sensibly graded, maintained and marked they have excercised due care. I guess a problem at woburn is that they can't know that the state of the trails or even where they are…..

i'll wait and post as soon as i know 🙂

I contected Allison again she said "I belive there is hope…."

I kinda despair…….. surely the Bedford Estates manager is best positioned to advise us all and here I see again more rumours about who said what,duke said that, and people that are not into cycling saying this, (do these rumours start here on this very site & bleed out onto the trails?) from what I have experienced of Greensands trust over the last 25 years is minimal, that came to head with an incident late in 2009 on RC2 over in Back wood! Their secretary was more concerned about idiots laying logs & stringing wires across trails pre meditated to cause injury than the head warden of the area "we know who he is" he seemed to dismiss it sorry not my area! lucky the Beds Police took it seriously – I digress – I think if I ever get to meet the Duke or Beds Estate people & Beds CC I'll ask them directly what their feelings are about us MTB'ers to put our minds at ease once and for all. We know there are 3 parties involved as per the Beds property managers response attached in a previous post?? I have also forwarded Beds Estate property manager the details from British Cycling & the IMBA UK & Forestry commission, the contract is under negotiation as he explained so lets see what comes of it, we have offered assistance/genuine reason to get involved and I think our voices have been heard. I will again chase up Bedford Estates this week as I was asked for a map outlining the areas we ride so as the estates manager could advise us who has ownership of what parts of the 800 acre site, from Back wood over to Aspley Heath. I think we all have enough emphasis and togetherness, we just need to keep on side with all 3 entity's that sit and judge what should & shouldn't be done in the area. I will speak to Ceri Griffin – Cycle officer for MK in the morning to see if he can advise a contact at Beds CC.

until more news – i'm off for a ride up the woods and shred some trails

All seems very chilled over there.

I did notice that 4X4s have been on some of the trails, and clearly not rangers vehicles and some of the growth had been sawn back.

Carl – did you see the 2 new trails over the side where we passed?

We didn't have time to try the first one we spotted.

P.S. not ben up there for a while so they may not be that new!

To you left going uphill? They've been there a while, the Buzzards use them but I like the old climb…weird me.

Also the way I was going, turn left ride past the lake and you come to a three way junction. We always went right or straight up as the left was always too boggy. Well it's been drained and the climbs all good again.

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/t-6AHxG1D_o

Climb is inbetween mile 8 and 9.

Going in your direction, cross the narrow bridge (Phil’s bridge?) and go up the short climb immediately after. Just before the top there is a trail that crosses it.

The other is a bit further on, you know as you come to the top of the gulley climb (near where you can see the burger van on the golf course) there is an alternative trail to the gulley about 10 metres to the right. Its quite long and brings you out just above the bridleway that runs along bottom of roller coaster.

Perhaps shouldn't be posting this here based on the topic of this thread!

I also noticed that the Roller Coaster which has survived for years is now just a series of brake bumps. HTF can you make brake bumps just a few feet into the descent and why?

Edit. And yet another good bit of trail soon to be ****ed up by 'riders' who are only interested in riding hills in one direction i.e downwards. That's always been a testing little climb where you can just about keep your front wheel down and keep traction at the same time. Now it's too steppy? thanks 👿

Well, is it closed 😆

Not that I know of, I'll be there later today.

No it is not closed yet, the last email I had from the rangers told me that an extention had been agreed untill the end of August when the permits expire. The only extra info I have had since then is that negotiations are still happening between all the paries invloved, but this was a couple of weeks ago.

Tim

Cheers for the updates gents, lets just hope that things get smoothed out in the end for all our sakes.

Can you really see them closing it? I'm a bit of a sceptic on this.

Great there last night, in fact I rode some new singletrack. Spent 21/2 hours riding and only got halfway across before having to turn back for home. Just shows how much potential the place has.

Check out the cyclone mbc forum for interesting developments on the stocky side

Slight update, arrived via post this morning;

"As you may be aware, discussions are ongoing between Central Bedfordshire and Milton Keynes Councils and the Aspley Woods landowners, Bedford Estates, concerning the renewal of the access agreement. Until such time as the agreement is renewed or terminated, we are only authorised to issue permits valid until 30th September 2010 – an application form is enclosed should you wish to do so. Further news will be on our website when more information is available".

News on Cyclone MBC site

Would be a real shame if it does end up going. I've just started getting more into downhill and Woburn is a great place to learn, and only about an hour away from me.

Heh this is good news I reckon…and all seems to be quiet on the closure front so maybe we have a stay of execution. Wow our own mini trail centre (possibly)…you would have to hope that this half million funding is already secured though!! Still good news though.

Where's this Rushmere then? I'm guessing in Bedfordshire still? Sounds good to me, we need more xc places in the East Midlands.

Stockgrve Country Park which is next to Heath & Reach in Beds

"As you may be aware, discussions are ongoing between Central Bedfordshire and Milton Keynes Councils and the Aspley Woods landowners, Bedford Estates, concerning the renewal of the access agreement. Until such time as the agreement is renewed or terminated, we are only authorised to issue permits valid until 30th September 2010 – an application form is enclosed should you wish to do so. Further news will be on our website when more information is available".

Yes, and £5 for those 30 days! I appreciate that there's probably a fixed-cost element to cover the admin side, this does seem to be taking the p*ss. Let's hope they don't use the lack of permit take-up for 2010/11 to justify the irresponsibility of MTBers.

hey Donks answeryour emails m8 other wise will post a few things on forums

Has anyone heard any more about what is happening? We are nearing the end of the September permit period…

Another letter through today re. permits;

“negotiations are still ongoing”
“the Access Agreement has further extended until 31st December 2010”
“Hopefully a definitive decision will be made by the end of the year”

£10 for an Oct-Dec permit, though “Those applicants who hold a September-only permit will receive a rebate against the new permit.”

I’ve just joined the forum. I live local to Woburn and have ridden there for many years. I am the CTC mid Beds off road Right to Ride rep. I brought the uncertain situation regarding Woburn up in Tuesday’s Central Beds CC cycle forum. Whilst ‘on record’ they were cagey about the future I am lead to understand that good progress has been made. Apparently a lot of ‘pro cycling’ pressure has been brought to bear. There are some unresolved issues still, parking etc. But the feeling was that its solvable. Clearly in the future all bikers will have to continue to respect the place and behave responsably.
At a previous meeting I hightlighted the dreadful sitation at Chicksands where you now have to pay £50 per year or £5 per day even if you only want to ride the perimiter loop as part of a local ride. Again something I’ve done for many years. A short while ago some friends and I had a 20 minute row with a guy who wanted to charge us £5 to ride there. We didn’t pay, but it was unpleasant. Up to recently the wood was full of families and leisure riders, now its virtually empty, apart for the Fat Trax users. A great shame, cycling should not be an inclusive recreation in my view. The more cyclists of all types out there the better for all of us.
Hope this is useful.

Just heard from Mr Spesh on this…. Looks as if everything should be ok. Also got this email via Mr Spesh,from Bob Holland.

Dear all,

I put in my last note “be in touch in a few days”!, here we are in October.

Politics and management meetings at Rushmere and the potential resolution of biking at Aspley have delayed things.

Aspley woods biking has been almost resolved with the Duke of Bedford – with no changes to cycle access in the woods, and final negotiations with Bedfordshire and Milton Keynes councils should be sorted out in a couple week or so.

With this in mind we do not want Rushmere and Aspley to compete in terms mounting biking but be complementary. We are intending to;

Leave the Aspley downhill and jump management and design (within agreed areas) to the community of bikers at Aspley as we have done in the past, resulting in as now, challenging and innovative jumps and downhill rides. Rushmere will be more orientated to supporting Family Mountain biking, but offering the opportunity to develop skills to a moderate level sufficient to enjoy a visit at Aspley. This would include;

Easy/moderate off road circular routes in Rushmere

Easy /Moderate Downhill and Jump facilities (we are also looking at uphill lifts) in the area we reviewed.

Links for longer distance off road rides from Rushmere to Aspley and Leigton Buzzard and surrounding woods

Areas specifically designed for skills improvement & training.

Trading/Repair

Rider facilities (showers/changing/food/toilets)

Keith and I will be putting together a proposal over the next 4 weeks – we will almost certainly be seeking your input.

Thanks

Bob Holland

Countryside Ranger

The Greensand Trust

Stockgrove Country Park

Brickhill Rd

Heath and Reach

LU7 0BA

Tel: 01525 237760

Let’s hope that the Woburn thing is settled amicably for all involved, both riders and locals. We as riders have to be sensible and considerate to the other users when on the trails. ie Don’t come blasting out from the undergrowth across one of the sand bridleways without looking and making sure is safe to do so.

As for Chicksands, if you don’t intend to ride their precious “bike park” or waste wood yard as it looks. And you get stopped ask them to call the police because you want to report them for demanding money with menaces. See what they do then. Otherwise ignore them and carry on your way.

Well I’m glad it looks like getting sorted

I don’ ride nearly as often as many on here. I commited to once a week at least this summer. Currently my wife can’t walk the dog so amost every ride has been at Woburn which works well with the dog. I thought I’d get bored of it but I love it now more than ever.

When the Rushmere stuff comes together as well that’ll be great

My only question would be up lift? Is that needed? Or are we talking access riding?

I message I received hinted that the problem all along was the parking on the verge near the jump site? It implied that the Highways agency and the estate came to some sort of agreement and alls now well.

Rushmere was mentioned ages ago, will we be building the same sort of trail that we built and signed on Oak Wood or will the landowners/whatever be doing it.

Edit; ampthill, uplift made me go 😯 but then there is a huge steep drop over there. It’s a beautiful place as well.