they should not have been allowed into the currency until they had proven they could manage their economy.

So never then. The Greek economy has a history of being an utter shambles, which is why IMO Europe will never get their money back. The Euro zone should cut their losses write off what is owed and run. It seems that just to keep the EU and Euro project together that they are willing to keep chucking money into a black hole, crazy 👿

hora – Member

Chewkw – with no money to pay pensions, wages and public services. What will happen in Greece?

I suppose the national currency would be revived and printed/distributed asap but their would be rampant Zimbabwe-style inflation for years.

Yeap, but having Zimbabwe currency is still better than being prostituted. 🙂

hora, you are good. See you can now own a piece of Greece …

I wan’t being cynical or anything – I’m just not very clued up about any of this stuff.

Earl – Member

Can someone explain to me in simple terms why Greece leaving the euro is a bad thing?

among other things, it shows all the other countries with (nearly) similarly crippling debts that default + euro-exit is an option.

The Euro zone might be able to survive one country leaving, but 4?

my armchair prediction: Greece will have some (more) debt written off, other debts will be ‘re-structured’, and the creaking heap will carry on for another year.

Agree. The sad thing is they’ll blame the Germans for their downfall. Not firmly themselves. They’ll still avoid paying proper taxes, etc etc.

hora – Member
Agree. The sad thing is they’ll blame the Germans for their downfall. Not firmly themselves. They’ll still avoid paying proper taxes, etc etc.

I can hear my Greek friends cursing the Germans in Greek now … 😆

Paying proper taxes etc ? My Greek friends would laugh and give you the blank look. 😆

Well, one of my friend who is working in a Greek resort will keep her job as I can see an increase in tourism soon. Cheap holidays anyone? Please pay in EURO, GBP, Krone, US$ but not Drachma if you are a visitor.

Is it fair to look at Zimbabwe and how it coped/copes? Of course different reasons- the leadership but still?

http://www.afdb.org/en/countries/southern-africa/zimbabwe/zimbabwe-economic-outlook/

Holidays will ALWAYS be booked up there- just like Spain who has its own problems.

When the Greeks gain introspective then they’ll turn a corner.

A fair comment?

Agree. The sad thing is they’ll blame the Germans for their downfall. Not firmly themselves. They’ll still avoid paying proper taxes, etc etc.

Did you read that somewhere? Or just decide to re-use an old favorite line?

Want to mention the forced loan the Nazi’s took from the National Bank of Greece? I think sometimes we are a little too keen to forget recent History.

Greece should never have been allowed in to the Euro in the first place.

Look at the big picture, how can anyone group a massive economy such as Germany and Greece’s together….Forget about differences in language, culture and pretty much everything else.

The Euro was never going to work, but they have been flogging a dead horse.

Why do they try and prop it up….Because Greece is tiny..tiny compared to say Italy.

If these bods can’t sort out a few issues with Greece’s Economy….they have no hope with the others…Italy, Spain, Portugal.

Time bomb ticking.

Can someone explain to me in simple terms why Greece leaving the euro is a bad thing? I would have though loosing a weak country lifts the average of the rest?

It’s the second order effects ie what happens next. Greece alone is manageable – a derailment of the wider (doomed) € project is not. Plus the geopolitical angle is of concern.

Greece is done, this is just the long awaited end game. They have suffered very badly from being in an artificial construct (€) that was designed to fail them and itself. It has been a catastrophe for Greece on the up and downside and a salutary lesson – an no, it was not their fault alone, far from it. Having said that they have negotiated like children not game theory experts! A truly bizarre and unedifying period of economic history.

My PA has just gone there in holiday 😯 I told her to take cash and $s as the banks are probably going to close and capital controls really need to be put in place fast.

Greece should never have been allowed in to the Euro in the first place.

Which countries should have? How many fiddled the numbers (thing the main players) then and now?

Time bomb ticking.

The UK referendum is around the corner.

Forget? That was many many decades ago. Or should I bring up my 2xGrandfathers and Great Uncles deaths with my German friends?

As noted before, the absurd thing about the in/out referendum is that we don’t know what we are voting in/put for? Europe has fundamental issues to address first. The only certainly is the current model cannot work. You either go for full monetary and fiscal union, or a free trade zone. The hybrid with a fixed exchange rate is doomed to fail. It has to, that is the way it has been designed.

So pretty pointless debate right now although watching the Tories self destruct on the topic yet again provides so temporary amusement. Politicians eh?

TMH Greek exit could lead to tighter fiscal regulations and a closer euro/Union. Would certainly be stronger for it IMO. A Greek exit could be the making of the euro.

Forget

It was Tsipras who instead of the traditional first act of a PM of visiting the tomb of the unknown soldier whent to a memorial for 200 communists executed by the Nazis. No accident, very deliberate.

TMH – euro referendum – well we do know that the EU project is for a superstate. This could be the last chance we get to vote on that. The days of it being a common market are long long gone.

Greek bank support extended by 3.5bn, general view is that will last to Monday or at most Tuesday

Apparently the ELA has been increased enough to keep the banks open until Monday.

So EU trying to turn the thumbscrews ahead of this weekends meetings.

It could go either way frankly – watch the markets

Europe should be working hard to help Greece adjust with the drachma, nationalised banks, capital controls etc. The country needs a different type of support not purely financial. This could be the making of EU politicians but I fear instead that they simply do not have the foresight or the patience/will

A bloody mess

Two, three-tier Europe is my guess. Either that or armed conflict in our children’s generation, another glorious legacy of our generation…..

jambalaya – Member

Greek bank support extended by 3.5bn, general view is that will last to Monday or at most Tuesday

A drop in the ocean. 😆

Free money is goood!

teamhurtmore – Member

Two, three-tier Europe is my guess.

errr … haven’t they learned?

Either that or armed conflict in our children’s generation, another glorious legacy of our generation…..

You mean Greece is going to invade? 😯

Don’t forget to buy the wider market once Greece does go.

There’s a wall of money waiting to be invested once this finally gets sorted.

As for Greece …. the uncontrolled default will, as we know, lead to rampant inflation and the seizing of funds of anyone silly enough to still have money in the country…. It will still be feel like the austerity they have had. In fact it will probably be worse and it will get very very ugly.

So no…. I’m not so sure that if Greece goes others will follow.

Anyway the can will get kicked down the road …. time heals all

Good to see that at the same time the ELA was being approved, the Greek PM was working hard for a solution by slagging off the EU in Russia. Complete joke, it’s almost like he wants to ruin his country.

Greece should never have been allowed in to the Euro in the first place.

Everybody knew this at the time. They weren’t on their own there either. The name that is notable by its absense in all this is those bastions of probity and good practice – Goldman Sachs – who were employed by the Greek government, and did an admirable job of, cooking the books on their behalf. Hiding the debts off the balance sheet, and generally making it all look kosher, when it was anything but!

But the fact that they hoodwinked the EU so easily, and to such an enormous degree, tells you all you need to know about the Euro project. Its a political project. Its entirely idealogically driven. And they’re not too bothered about owt else. Certainly not in checking too closely whether the sums add up. Makes you wonder what else is lurking around the corner, presently undiscoverd, or being covered up for as long as possible for political reasons.

The reason they’re terrified of a Greek default is that it will trigger all manner of skeletons emerging from closets, and the whole fundamentaly flawed project will unravel wih god-only-knows what consequences. The Greeks know this. Hence the constant Mexican stand offs

OK i understand why they will leave the Euro, but why will they be forced out of the EU ?

andyfla – Member

OK i understand why they will leave the Euro, but why will they be forced out of the EU ?

Aha … perhaps the club rules?

There’s a wall of money waiting to be invested once this finally gets sorted.

I am sure ISIS would invest in Greece.

You mean Greece is going to invade?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/05/03/is-grexit-a-threat-to-greeces-security/

More like Turkey.

If all goes tats up will Greeks be the butt of jokes?

Reminds me of Father Ted

I blame the Greeks they invented *******

😆

Dread to think what Russia will ask for in return eg military installations on the border etc

Mediterranean ports?

Russia wouldnt/couldnt afford the amount of money that Greece would need annually?

So its a non starter

The Russian state doesn’t. Officially. But Putin and chums would quite like a handy, already corrupt, and suitably opaque European national banking system to keep all their loot in. That used to be Cyprus. Greece would be ideal.

Mediterranean ports?

Yes of course, the Russians will demand that Greece hands over their Mediterranean ports to them. Presumably so that they can launch a seaborne invasion of Western Europe from the south, crafty feckers.

Russia hasn’t but the BRICS bank has and it would be one up on the IMF.

Yes of course, the Russians will demand that Greece hands over their Mediterranean ports to them. Presumably so that they can launch a seaborne invasion of Western Europe from the south, crafty feckers.

I thought the Chinese were invading from the South, planning on meeting Putin and Co half way?

The BRICS would need something major in return for sinking money into the hole that is called Greece.

The Chinese were going to buy some Greek ports and the current government cancelled the deal.

OK i understand why they will leave the Euro, but why will they be forced out of the EU ?

No reason – that’s just scaremongering by the idiot Martin Schultz – the same idiot who was complaining yesterday about Eurosceptics scaremongering about immigrants.

This could be the making of EU politicians but I fear instead that they simply do not have the foresight or the patience/will

Or the intelligence. Look at the EU finmins – Ireland – ex-teacher Michael Noonan, Holland – CV fiddler Dijsselbloem. Compared with Varoufakis and Tsakolotos.