If i bought another berlingo (or similar with same engine) and changed the oil every 8k miles would it still clog up if it had only been serviced previously every 12k miles?
Essentially if buying second hand are you buying a turbo failure or can it be prevented even if not looked after before hand?

Mileage of vehicle?

Seems to be a problem in focus’s at 65K, it does help if the oil is regularly changed and the sump flushed with fresh oil to clean out the sludge BUT once it’s gone pop from all accounts on the internet it’s a lemon.

thats what i understand also – cheers.

If the turbo is ok when you bought it I.e no noise or play in the turbo impeller , then run engine till full temp (cooling fans) drain oil and remove filter ( leave draining for 20mins ) remove sump and replace the oil pump gauze and rebuild and replace with full synth 5/40 and change ever 10k I’ve never had to replace a turbo/engine if maintained correctly or mantainace done before turbo damage. My mrs car has 70k and she drives it like its stolen. And i service one today with 160k and no issues.

Forgot a very important part!!! The turbo oil feed pipe also has a tiny gauze that starves the turbo when blocked.
Change it also. You will be suprised how blocked both are and no matter how many oil changes you do it won’t unblock them. If the engine has a poor service record oil change/oil flush a few times before changing the x2 gauze and the oil filter to attempt to remove the sh## before fitting the new parts.
Will now last for ever promise!!!

2 questions for you Mr Diesel, as I might consider a van with one of these engines in when due a change.

Is sump removal an easy job? It doesn’t typically require loads of removal of sub-frame or suspension components, or the gearbox bell housing disconnecting or anything like that.

If you are changing the oil every 10k miles or even a little more often, is it worth just leaving the 2 gauze filters off? No chance they can block up then and there’s unlikely to be anything too nasty going through the bearings or engine if the oil isn’t too old. Thanks.

Does this problem apply to the 2.0 hdi unit as fitted to a xsara?

Not as fragile mildred. Rob go for a petrol or 2.0hdi.

Apparently the watch points are the gauze filter – the oil used (it needs to be a low ash / low SAPs oil) and the injectors. A blowing injector overheat the oil creating the ash/gunk that then clogs the gauze and in turn starve the turbo. So alongside oil / gauze changes have a look at the injectors and check for chuffing and check the injector bolts for tightness.

One of the reasons for the engine suffering frequent turbo failures is that seemingly although the engine is fitted to lots of different makes and models each manufacturer is giving differing service specs – A citroen C3 has a higher spec of oil reccomended than a focus (which states the same weight/grade but not the low ash element). Ford specifies checking tension of the injector bolts at services but others don’t.

So although the gauze clogging is the direct cause of the turbo bother – if the oil was correct and the injectors are in good order the sludge that blocks the gauze wouldn’t be getting created.

each manufacturer is giving differing service specs

Sounds like someone who knows their onions should be distilling all the best practice into one recommended service program. 😀

interesting – so to summarise:
check service history and oil changes. If a new turbo has been fitted – DO NOT BUY.
Check turbo for noise (what noise – rattle) and movement in the impellor.
Run engine – remove filter and drain – remove sump and clean out – remove and replace fuel pump gauze. New oil and every 10k after with full synth 5/40
Change turbo oil feed pipe gauze.

**How much are the parts? How long is the job (cleaning and changing gauzes)?**

what about the 2.0hdi?

many modern engines are blighted by pickup pipes clogging – the VAG 1.8T is also prone if crap oil is used or service intervals are neglected

motto is don’t skimp on either

Trying to summarise, what macc said is correct, the removal of the sump and gauze replacement is a 2 hour job on your back with out any major engine stripping just the sump. The 2.0 hdi is a great very long lasting engine but getting old now and is way to heavy for modern cars any wont go near euro 5 emissions that dv6 engines are now running.

Rob how much mileage do you do during the week? Enough to get the engine fully up and running or a mix with short journeys too?

I don’t buy into it has to be a diesel for this sort of car. I’ll be also looking at the petrol models.

Hora is spot on most manufacturers are recommending petrols for low mileage drivers due to some customers destroying £1000 particle filters in 2000 miles

commute is 16 miles each way 5 days a week, shopping 36 miles round, biking mileage – 20-30miles twice a week

16 miles on decent open roads should see a modern diesel get up to temp and help keep various bits functioning and clean

16 miles in traffic will see it ruined quickly.

Im a big advocate of petrol cars in heavy traffic areas (or cycling ;))

its open road driving – no traffic what so ever and hilly

Hmmm I’d still go with petrol. My 1.0 65hp is never found wanting anywhere round the Peaks….well except for double-overtakes

BTW – when did the DV6 engine come into play (are all 1.6hdi the dv6)?

http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/archive/index.php?thread-1149-1.html

Is that found wanting or found wanted ??

lol

Its funny this issue. My ex neighbor had 150k+ on his 1.6hdi focus when he got rid and other than not bein enamored with its performance it never missed a beat. Mind you he did 40-60k pa on major a roads.

Similarly another mate similar mileage two pug 307s without issue.

I suspect the big leggy journeys do it.

Less than 15k pa and I would go petrol. My mileage has come down to that and I would choose a petrol now if the 2l diesel mondeo was running anything other than bang on. Hopefully not jinxed it. The petrol one just lunched its cooling system with no warning.

Chris – could you drop me an email, would really appreciate your advice re: my bet lingo
Littlesammyhill at me dot com
Thanks

Berlingo*

Lifes too short eeking out extra mpg whilst worrying about everything rhat needs doing. If you do diesel miles those new oil/changes come round frequently too.

Cutsngrazes: I’ve just e mailed you.

A French magazine did a report on Petrol/diesel and despite diesel being 15% cheaper than petrol in France they found some petrol cars were cheaper over their lifetime than the equivalent diesel, and many were over 100 000km before any gain from buying diesel. They took into account new price, fuel use, service costs, time off the road and trade in.

On my latest vehicle there’s a monthly service contract (after 35 years of grovelling under cars), I asked what it would have cost on the diesel version, 6e difference is about 75km of fuel.

Petrol engines also start first time every time at altitude when it’s -20°C. I have a diesel van which has to be parked pointing downhill. You don’t have to use the filthy DERV pump, there’s no particle filter to clog, you’ll give less people cancer and as a bonus, power for power a petrol engine is always a smoother, more flexible drive.

“power for power a petrol engine is always a smoother, more flexible drive. “

and your left (or in your case right) hand gets a good working stirring the porridge stick all the time in a petrol.

your diesel sounds shite btw – needs glow plugs or something

my 25 year old diesel landy (with **** piston rings) started on the button in -28 when i lived in drumtochty glen – we got on the telly as the coldest (unofficial) place in the county at the time 😀

My only fear is the power.

My 65bhp 800kg car only weighs 800bhp and when you learn to match the gears to the engine its very quick. Yes, it actually is.

My fear is the torque/bhp on the Berlingo with the added kerb weight.

Guess I better test drive one.

How many diesels will go foot on the floor from 1200 to 6500rpm and trundle around roundabouts in top gear? My old petrol Pug will.

The glow plugs in my diesel Ducato are fine, it’s not the only diesel that’s reluctant to start in the ski resort; the breakdown truck is a regular sight. The ones that won’t start are generally diesels. The people asking for jump leads generally have diesels. At least with the Ducato I can take the battery into the apartment to warm it up, on modern diesels if you take the battery out you have to pay 50 – 80e for the electronics to be reset, and some won’t start at all.

i like petrol engines – but they need to be a big engine. as hora points out , lots of rev matching and gear changing to get a petrol to move with weight in.
define modern – never had to take my 2006 diesel to get “reset”

if you remove the battery wrong how ever or try and jump start them – they dont like that !

Modern is something you can go into a showroom and buy.

Compare Renault’s engines used in Berlingo sized vehicles (I have the figures to hand):

1.2 petrol turbo. 115bhp, 190Nm from 2000 to 4000, peak power at 4500rpm and still over 110bhp at 6000rpm.

1.5 diesel variable geometry turbo, 110bhp, 240Nm at 1750rpm, peak power at 4000rpm declining rapidly thereafter.

The diesel is fitted with a six speed gearbox to compensate for the narrower power band yet you claim you need to change gear less with a diesel.

Edit to add fuel consumption: mixte cycle petrol 5.1l/100 diesel 4.0l/100km. Given the higher cost of the vehichle and higher servicing costs you have to do a lot of km to benefit from the fuel saving.

your confusing power with torque.

Aye. Torque is king (sadly) in a ladened vehicle for less hassle.

I’ll have a spin in one when I take my Citroen in for its imminent service this week.

No I’m not, I know what both are and quoted both. The Renault engines quoted produce exactly the same torque and power at 4000rpm – 190Nm/110bhp. The diesel produces more torque than the petrol below 2000rpm and the petrol more than the diesel above 4000.

Don’t forget the role of gearing. You’ll be a gear higher in the diesel which reduces the torque at the wheels. For example, the petrol engine is geared 46km/1000 in 5th and the diesel 54km/1000 in 6th. Consider the situation that favours the diesel the most, behind a truck at 100kmh where the diesel is at 1850rpm and right on the top of its torque curve. The torque available at the wheels will be 190/46 for the petrol and 240/54 for the diesel. Only a 7% torque advantage at the wheels for the diesel which is soon lost as speed rises. If you deem it necessary to change down the petrol wins at any speed.

so what your saying is (and your agreeing with me in essence) – petrols for overtaking and diesels for cruising

im definantly a cruiser and thats why i like diesels ….. get it in 5th/6th and sit there till get to where i need to be. my next car will be auto box and reasonably big engine.

that said – my other toy car is a carbed 3.5v8 on manual.

I’m quite happy with all the other people at the legal limit so don’t do much overtaking either. Almost all the petrol engines I’ve had could be driven in almost any gear at any speed and would gather speed without protest when pressing the right pedal, I like that. The diesels have generally juddered and shaken in protest when using too high a gear and run out of revs just above idle.

I can’t understand why someone who drives a 3.5 V8 petrol would argue in favour of diesel on any other grounds than imminent bankruptcy. 😉

A point on topic for the OP. A friend runs a business that refurbishes turbos for the trade. He warned me off the Peugeot 1.6 Hdi which generates much of his business but was quite positive about the 136bhp 2lHdi.