Yep, Druidh is right. But what he’s said there is a million miles from “very few people ride to such a level where suspension setup really matters”.

I’ll buy him a pint if I ever meet him

Actually Northwind, while that seems logical, I do have mates who would struggle to tell the difference.

Some actually like what I reckon is a badly handling bike, some who prefer it to dive under braking, some wouldnt know what slow speed compression was if it wollowed them into a tree, some who think that unless they use all their travel they have wasted their suspension etc etc.

So I agree things could be improved, but not everyone will notice, if that makes sence. Also a lot of people ride in their own style and comfort zone, hardly leaving that sort of trail.

It took me years to realise that my old diving forks were crap, then it took me years to realise that my old air shock was ramping up too much.

I think these changes took time to be noticed because my riding took years to improve.

People are all at different stages of riding not to mention styles and expectations.

So not all the improvments I like would suit others.
That different to saying they are better.

As to the new Fox CTD forks diving through their travel i have to agree wi this.

I have the 2013 Fox Talas 140mm fitted with CTD/ FIT cartridge and they drop through their travel to such an extent that i use 90psi in the air chamber when fox recommends i use 65psi for my weight, if i use 65 psi the forks pack right down into the crown and that’s riding along forest roads never mind on techy trails. We’ve sold quite a few Ibis Mojo’s of various builds and Lapierre’s in the shop over the past few weeks and these all have the same problem with their Fox forks, if we set the forks up as per Fox’s air pressure spec settings then they all drop through their travel at the slightest provocation and pack down to such an extent on downhill sections that folk have been crashing over the bars as they just will not return quickly enough or at all, and this is not the riders fault – some of these riders are very skilfull, so for now we have reached a sort of air pressure method that is whatever Fox recommends + 30 to 40% extra, for some riders we’ve had to increase pressure by as much 50% so Fox better get their finger out and admit they have fcued up. Obviously increasing air pressure affects how the for reacts to smaller hits so it’s not ideal but it is a solution for the time being, but for forks that costs the best part of £800+ it’s very-very poor indeed.

What i dont get about not bothering about getting suspension set-up somewhat right, why bother agonising over what bike to get in the first place? May as well just get a decathlon special if it doesn’t matter.

A bells and whistles 6k bike is going to ride about the same, if not worse than a 1k dog, if set up shite.

Also on fox forks, they were pretty divey even before 2013, haven’t had a go on 2013s yet, i imagine it’ll be bad times.

Also the whole giving what the customer wants (even if it’s wrong) rather than focusing on racer feedback is somewhat madness IMO. Yes the average joe would not get on with a elite DHers set-up, it would be too harsh, but it should just be scaled back. With suspension whether it be bikes or motor vehicles, there is always that comfort v performance balance to hit, you cant have both, enhance one, compromise on the other.

Maybe there’s room in the market for performance ranges and comfort ranges? No compromise then.

Sadly they have to sell forks to people who bounce them around in the car park. As per the original artical.

99.999% of the population don’t buy £6k bikes.

I know that you are one of the very few who care about axle travel and spring rates but you need to recognise that the most common front suspension set-up question on STW isn’t “what rebound setting for….?” it’s “where can I get my fork lowers re-sprayed?”

Well, a properly setup bike (ie propr sag and proper rebound) can help beginner downhillers gain confidence when riding a lot quicker. Compression is a fine tuning device. So I really disagree that setup can be crap and most riders can ride round it. They cam, but they’d see their times decrease fairly considerably if they time their runs and got the basics right.

Tyre pressure is another big one, on loamy wet ground (eg chicksands, especially when it’s got dead leaves on it) I find high tyre pressures work much better for me. I get more trail feedback so I can feel the grip and the tyre seems to dig in more. Low tyre pressures in the conditions feel weird and sensation less. In rocky, rooty terrain I MUCH prefer low tyre pressures though.

Are there any suspension set up guides out there that are for the layman? Maybe someone could post a link? Also, amazed that Fox could get it SO wrong on the 2013 CTD forks! Have lots of people complained? This is the first I’ve heard is all…

2011 Fox FIT 120 RLC here. Setup with slightly less than the recommended pressures and its controlled, invisible and reaches full travel very occasionally on really big hits. I got the same from my 2007 coil pike with little effort .

However, my 2012 RS Sid 100 is firm and doesn’t track small bumps as well as the Fox or reach full travel regardless of the pressures at each end. I’m still waiting for someone to tell me if its supposed to be like that because its “meant for XC racers”. Or foes tha HA affect the way the fork feels?

Kryton57 – Member
2011 Fox FIT 120 RLC here. Setup with slightly less than the recommended pressures and its controlled, invisible and reaches full travel very occasionally on really big hits. I got the same from my 2007 coil pike with little effort .

However, my 2012 RS Sid 100 is firm and doesn’t track small bumps as well as the Fox or reach full travel regardless of the pressures at each end. I’m still waiting for someone to tell me if its supposed to be like that because its “meant for XC racers”. Or foes tha HA affect the way the fork feels?

I never got to make my point which is of those two ^^ if both manufacturers followed marketing direction why would the be so different?

As said above its the rider more than the suspension. My mate is a professional motorbike racer and beats me on both the ups and decents on a heavy 35lbs+ steel hardtail with forks that have about 20mm of travel.

Its not because his bike is good, its because hes mental and trains 6 days a week every week.

robowns – so you’re not going to bother aligning your bars, putting air in your tyres, setting up your suspension remotely correctly on your pride and joy because it’s more the rider?

robowns – so you’re not going to bother aligning your bars, putting air in your tyres, setting up your suspension remotely correctly on your pride and joy because it’s more the rider?

Nah I dont bother with bars, I just hold onto the stem.

But yeah I was just adding to the other side of the arguement, obviously I have set mine up to how I like it, didnt spend the money to have something I didnt like.

What i got from that is that the suspension developers, shops and magazines do a piss poor job of showing us how to work their products.

If i want to know the basics of set up for my suspension i generally turn to one of the specialist tuning companys web sites rather than looking on the manufacturers site.

Sram have produced service videos for alot of their products, why not setup videos too?

…why not setup videos too?

Becuase there are N different variations depending on N different trails/tyres/wheels/frames etc.

You learn what the knobs do and make a choice. If you want to become an expert, do more learning and comparison.

I’ve bolted some bluetooth enabled servo motors to my compression and rebound dials.
I use this in conjunction with a phone app that picks up the start points of all the local strava segs and adjusts the settings to be optimal for that segment.
That way I can rip though a whole chain of segments without having to worry about the bike.

I really want that to be true

Rusty Mac – That would be ideal. This is the way cane creek are going about things, the most complicated shock to tune on the market. Fox are ding this too with their ird app.

But as mentioned by someone else earlier, for average joe, they CBA dialling in their compression setting, let alone think about what they’re doing, i would like to see spring and rebound as the only adjustments, maybe lockout too, then it is pretty easy for the manufacturer to make straight forward, set-up recommendations. But then knobs and dials is what the customer wants, if even they dont know what they do,

A chart saying if you’re x weight, run y pressure and z clicks of rebound would be ideal and really wouldn’t be a chore for the manufacturer to supply. But then, how many people whinge about rockshox recommended fork pressures being too high (case of too much suspension for that user)?

Bike shops need to do better too in their initial set up and after sales service. I pride myself on the bikes being setup well when they leave the shop and do my best to answer any questions or make recommendations on adjustments when they come back. But can only educate people in what’s really happening out on the trails and doing repeated runs, should this be part of the shop service?

Will try this again as it vanished into the ether last time

Becuase there are N different variations depending on N different trails/tyres/wheels/frames etc.

But this is exactly my point, some basic guidance on how to set up your shock to get the best out of it shouldn’t be too dificult.
The adjustments on the shocks don’t really differ much for the same type.

I completely understand that shocks are designed for mr average but i am not average but i should be able to get the same kind of feel by tuning the shock for me.

They should be able to provide pointers along the lines of

If you find the bike bobing like a pogo stick when you pedal try x, y, z
If you find the bike tries to buck you over the bars off a jump try 1, 2, 3.

These values will be inherintly different for each bike/rider/type of terrain but it shouldn’t be too hard to get the information accross in an easily understandable format that a novice or luddite like myself could understand.

If you find the bike bobing like a pogo stick when you pedal try x, y, z
If you find the bike tries to buck you over the bars off a jump try 1, 2, 3.

The fox website provided that (at least it used to) in the Tech section.

These values will be inherintly different for each bike/rider/type of terrain but it shouldn’t be too hard to get the information accross in an easily understandable format that a novice or luddite like myself could understand.

Hmm.
I wonder what the bandwidth of the acceleromters are like in a typical mobile? I.e attach phone to bike, bounce up and down, it then tells you what to twiddle.

Kryton57

Just had a quick look and can’t see it, will continue to have a look arroud the site to see if i come accross it but it is not imediately obvious as to where it is.

If you have a link please could you post it up.

[edit] found it
http://www.foxracingshox.com/help.php?m=bike&ref=topnav [/edit]

Here you go Rusty Mac:

http://www.foxracingshox.com/help.php?m=bike&t=tuningtips&ref=lnav_help

edit: ah, you got it.

And for RS:

http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/pvj1aoSI4_YEw80U-umEMEpwdJXztWGrVKQ7pZuUwLE/mtime:1324592040/sites/default/files/techdocs/2001-2012_dual_air_tuning_guide_gen.0000000004160_rev_a.pdf

crashtestmonkey – Member

because the mags and other so-called experts regularly trot out “your sus is sorted when it bottoms out once or twice per ride”.

This gets my backup, so called experts start spouting complete and utter crap.

Kryton57

Ta very much, have book marked them so will have a propper read at home later.

doesn’t track small bumps

I know everyone is different, but this makes me want to kill kittens. If you can’t control a bike over small bumps then get a road bike you’ll enjoy it more.

Interestingly ( or not, depends on your pov) Mugura bought out a 140mm fork a few years ago the Thor that was rightly criticised for being too divey, and I suspect as did others that was so that it felt good to punters in car park tests. Surprising that only a few years later Fox are doing the same thing

Chris Porter may talk some old tosh from time to time, but hes spot on with this:

“I think selling a rider one bike and then selling him three pairs of wheels would be the more honest solution. An XC wheelset with a decent set of fast rolling, lightweight tyres, an all-mountain set with a tougher set of tyres with a fast rolling tread pattern on the rear, and a tougher pair of wheels with a pair of tougher, softer tyres for big days in the Alps.”

Wheels make the single biggest difference to how a bike rides IMHO..

Rusty – actually this is better:

http://faqload.com/faqs/bicycle-components/suspension/rockshox-sid-race-2009-2010-setup-tips

and this is a pretty good simplified explanation:

Tech Article: How Rockshox Motion Control Works

double post

+1 mrlebowski

And the often overlooked tyre pressure.

Why tweak your £1000 forks when you dont bother checking tyre pressures.

can someone post a video of this “bouncing around the car park” please? it sounds funny.

Yep Trimix, tyre pressures too – very important.