One word. WOW 😯

Infuriating and depressing viewing all at the same time.

Yeah…watched that with the wife. Pretty wild! 😯

Kinda made me cringe with embarrasment thinking of some of the states i got in as a yoof!

My mate now works as a rentacop in A&E. Some of the abuse the medical professionals have to put up with is unreal.

I am not sure I have seen such a graphic and real representation of what goes on in A&E – I have admiration for anyone who can work in an environment like that.

The program Director could have angled the program down the lines of Daily Mail viewing. He/she didnt though, just viewed everything open and bare. The Doctors insight (and the editing) was fantastic. Her commenting that it wasnt really her place to pass judgement and reminded us of the ethics/code of being a Doctor yet the frustrations on the cyclic abuse that A&E suffer and will continue…well you get the point. It was refreshing- no agenda, just laid bare and the overdose of Ketamine was thankfully left in showing a mistake.

Brilliant telly. Watched it with my wife (a hospital registrar).

Great to see a reasonably fair documentary about hospital life, rather than the current fad for doctor bashing, unclean hospitals, neglect etc.

i know its a cliche, but they deserve a medal. if any proffession desreves a payrise its the nurses who have to deal with all the sh1t. great programme, but uncomforatble to watch.

Notice how there was no piece-to-camera, no annoying voice overs, no personalities in there? It was JUST about the people IN the hospital at that time. Refreshing.

I didn’t see it – sounds like my mistake. i turned over to newsnight thinking i might learn something, they had made reconstructions of the girls home where the teenagers were routinely sedated – talk about trivialising the issue, they’d ‘aged’ the footage to make it look like it was shot in the 70’s, ended up looking like a shit version of life on mars.

I love the idea of the bbc, and i love lots of programmes, but STOP WASTING MY MONEY on pointless graphics, drama reconstructions and sending reporters to stand outside nameless buildings, tell me the news, ask people who have a definite link to the event…

apologies for the blatant hijack

Whilst Charlie Booker’s delivery is a bit shouty-student, I caught his newswipe last week on iplayer. Very well pitched, reflecting I hope the silent majority’s frsutration with the path “news” is taking. Saw a bit of the Hospital on the hotel tellie last night. I kept thinking of comrade noteeth.

I watched in an absolute rage, that blond dr should be struck off… its not her job to moralise about how deserving people are of treatment, even if they are morons. If I gave similar views about some of the little horrors I teach taking up too much money in a hard pressed education system, I’d be sacked and rightly so, its not my job to decide whats right or wrong its my job to educate all to the best of my ability.

anagallis_arvensis: what are you on about? Were you watching the same show?

The entire point was that she didn’t “moralise about how deserving people are of treatment” – in fact she stated explicitly that her job as a doctor was just to treat people, that people had the basic right to put whatever substances they liked into their bodies and they should be treated equally at treatment.

I loved her subtle insight with her recollection of a young mum in a treatment cubicle just watching her toddler trash the toys in there without any reproach

GrahamS she was constantly making reference to costs and what this or that cost and how it was taking staff from other things, then she made some comment that I cant quote but it had me jumping up and down and swearing so much the dog started crying!! Then she gave some smug smirk and said but of course I’m not allowed to judge them, depsite having done just that. Smug cow had a face I could never get sick of kicking. There was some poor 18 year old girl who had been stabbed when pissed and was asked when was the last time she ate and she said the day before as she hadnt been food shopping. Now I thought Oh my god here’s a poor 18 yearold girl, obviously alone in the world with no one looking out for her who has a eating disorder and needs some help. Smug bitch womean could only say how shocked she was that this person not be bothered to shop for food.

Excellent programme – worked in an A&E dept about 20-odd years ago (eek, I’m getting old!), Fri & Sat nights were bad then, but looks even worse now – sad reflection on the way society has gone in the UK.

When i watch programmes such as this, I’m always reminded me of my sister coming back from a Young Conservative meeting in the mid-1980’s, where she’d just heard a well received speech saying that the best way to keep the general masses in check was to ‘keep ’em pissed and keep ’em thick!’ and wasn’t it Mrs Thatcher who said there’s no such thing as Society, just individuals?! Hmm… looks like we’re now paying the price for this approach.

anagallis_arvensis, I would suggest that its almost impossible not to pass some opinion on people. Especially in an A&E dept such as that shown. The fact that people do work there is outstanding, Id ignor their opinions and let them get on with a job that most people would not do for double the money.

When you end up in A&E having fallen off your bike some may say you shouldnt be so stupid, but what will actually happen is some Dr will fix you up and let you go on your way. They will do this whatever opinion they hold.

trimix I’m sure they will and great I appreciate it. But that stupid women shouldnt be on the tv expressing opinions like she did and questioning who was more deserving of treatment, as I said if I did that about education I’d be scked and rightly so.

I think you should be sacked regardless. I mean if you can’t understand a fairly straightforward TV programme without getting it that wrong how can you possibly be repsonsible for kids education?

Can’t wait for next weeks. My Boss said the same production team also made one based on Holloway/prisons?

Ditto what hora said, and likewise regarding Holloway, both compelling viewing and whilst in no way anything other than a TV show, perhaps, just perhaps will make some folks wake up to some realities, so in that sense can only do good.

Maybe it is down to interpretation, but absolutely nothing she said came across to me as “questioning who was more deserving of treatment”.

The program was focussed on the increasing A&E admissions from alcohol related causes (80,000 additional admissions a year) and the resourcing strain that this causes.

(I interpreted) the opinions that she gave to relate to those extra strains on resources and how they might be reduced.

That is a general public health issue and is exactly the kind of things that doctors are encouraged to consider.

At no point did I see her suggest that any patient or group were any less deserving than “real” patients.

Smug bitch woman could only say how shocked she was that this person not be bothered to shop for food.

You saw “smug” – I saw someone dismayed and exasperated.

And regarding education:

If your job involves considering the general level of education in the country and you said something like “The large number of children who arrive at primary school without ever seeing a book is a real drain on education resources” then that is quite, quite different from saying “I don’t want to teach the thick kids”

Hopefully you can see the difference and draw the comparison.

You saw “smug” – I saw someone dismayed and exasperated.

Regardless of our difference of opinion a trained medical professional should be able to see what was clearly a young girl with problems getting no support from anyone. She looked very underwieght to me. Saying whatever she said which was something like “can you believe she cant be bothered to shop for food” shows an almost negligent lack of insight into a real medical problem.

I think you should be sacked regardless. I mean if you can’t understand a fairly straightforward TV programme without getting it that wrong how can you possibly be repsonsible for kids education?

I think I fully understood where that programme was coming from and the doctor interviewed fully understood it too. Having worked in state I am more aware than most about the realities of teenagers from socially disadvantaged backgrounds and how well just plain stupid their families can be and how much of a drain on money that could be spent on “nicer” they are but thats what I signed up for in state education and its what that dr signed up for in state healthcare. I cant be bothered to look back at some of the things she said but I thought they were highly dubious. I dont expect some of the more right leaning members of this forum to agree with me but hey thats life.

“The large number of children who arrive at primary school without ever seeing a book is what really highlights the need for a high quality state education system that can help break the cycle of educational underachievement”

….. fixed

a trained medical professional should be able to see what was clearly a young girl with problems getting no support from anyone. She looked very underwieght to me.

Why do you think she was asking when the girls last meal was? Clue: She wasn’t just making smalltalk – she was trying to discover if there was a medical cause.

From memory she rhetorically asked the camera, in a rather despairing voice, how such a young girl gets to the point where she can’t be bothered to eat and what we as a society should do about it.

She was clearly aware that the girls welfare problems went beyond the immediate A&E issue of being stabbed – but what could she do about it?

“The large number of children who arrive at primary school without ever seeing a book is what really highlights the need for a high quality state education system that can help break the cycle of educational underachievement”

Nice, so how is that different to what she said about seeing a huge number of cases involving drink and drugs and the only way to break the cycle would be to completely change society? (Which she admitted herself she had no idea how to do).

I cant be bothered to look back at some of the things she said but I thought they were highly dubious. I dont expect some of the more right leaning members of this forum to agree with me but hey thats life.

Since when has supporting the NHS and wanting healthcare for all been a right-wing ideology?

Anyway I’ll give you a couple of direct quotes from her (Naomi Cuthbert – the A&E Consultant) to get your lefty liberal lentils boiling:

“If you took alcohol out of the equation, 50 per cent of our staff wouldn’t be necessary.”

“[The NHS has become] a bucket and mop [for a] sub-set of society that is completely dysfunctional.”

*Reality is, some patients are more deserving of compassion than others… Some people visit tragedy upon themselves and some people have it visited upon them.”

STOP ARGUING! You lot are driving me to drink!!! 😆 🙄

I think I fully understood where that programme was coming from

Apparently not, given that you are the only person thus far to view it in that way. No idea why it should wind you up as it obviously has, but you are defintely angry about something other than what was on display last night. No real intention to wind you up on my part, but I honestly can’t see the burr under your saddle over this.

Reality is, some patients are more deserving of compassion than others… Some people visit tragedy upon themselves and some people have it visited upon them.”

That was it, makes my fepping blood boil, how dare she moralise, I could cope with you lot saying that, I could cope with an MP saying that but a Dr FFS… grr, I’m all angry agian now 👿

Oh give over you big ninny!
Every Doctor I know and work with, and every nurse I’ve ever met and worked with ‘moralises’ in exactly the same way.
What makes us good or ‘angels’ or ‘professional’ or whatever you want to call it is that regardless of what we think, we try to do the best we can.

I agree with aa.

i don’t think the program was as balanced as it initially appeared to be. I think it had a subtle but definite Daily Mail tone to it.

When the blond Dr said “its not my place to judge” she clearly was judging. She also kept making comments about ‘society’, as if the drunk chavs coming in after a night out represented the entire country.

Having said that, its obviously an incredibly difficult job. Theres no way i could do it for any amount of money.

I did wonder if all the tax on alcohol covers the medical bills too??

I’d be entirely surprised if she didn’t say that.

From experience I think that most frontline doctors and nurses would say something similar, or at least have some sympathy with her point. Perhaps not all would be brave enough to do so publicly though.

Edit: ahh crikey beat me to that point. Oh well it’s not just me at least 🙂

Why do you think she was asking when the girls last meal was?

Everyone gets asked that or should.

Didn’t watch it as never do watch them as drive me a touch mad, sounds like this one may have been the exception so might try to catch it on More 4. Does look as AA completely missed the point though.

I started watching it,but it made me so angry I turned over!!.I wouldn’t treat anyone who was well enough to shout and scream abuse.Throw them in a drunk tank untill the’ve soberd up and learned a bit of respect.

Didn’t watch it as never do watch them as drive me a touch mad, sounds like this one may have been the exception…

Yep, I deliberately switched it off as such documentaries are typically focussed on doctor bashing and tend to make the missus seethe. But we switched it back on after a doctor mate texted to say it was worth watching. Should be available on 4OD.

well if I did miss the point at least one other person did too.

Every teacher I’ve ever met moralises as well…

I dont doubt that but would they go on TV and spout such shite?

I started watching it,but it made me so angry I turned over!!.I wouldn’t treat anyone who was well enough to shout and scream abuse.Throw them in a drunk tank untill the’ve soberd up and learned a bit of respect.

Now that aspect I whole heartedly agree with.

How exactly is it shite though? It is a statement of how she feels. And it is a feeling that is probably shared by the majority of health care workers.

Should we just ignore it?

Do you honestly expect them to feel the same amount of compassion for every patient??? I don’t think Gandhi himself would manage that.