Coffeeking, sorry, I disagree with you, they don’t live in the same world. Not at all.

And, as wwaswas says, how can they walk away? Where to? They can’t get a job, have nowhere to live, shunned by gorgies (non-gypsies), have very little confidence (outside their group). They don’t have bank accounts or savings.

Most of the gypsies I know personally are actually very quick and bright, but can’t read and have the handicap of social stigma.

It’s a shame. Having said that, they don’t (as a group) help themselves.

…..they don’t (as a group) help themselves.

A lot of the individuals do though.

Although maybe not in the way you meant 😉

how can they walk away? Where to? They can’t get a job, have nowhere to live

I watched the insightful and unbiased documentary series “Big Fat Gypsy Weddings” and in that it showed some gypsy girls get jobs in “our world” and don’t spend all day cleaning the caravan.
Some even marry non-gypsy fellas.

insightful and unbiased

😆

What Karinofnine said in her first post but with a subtle trolling undertone and a hint at derailing the thread.

As with most people my views and opinions are formed through a combination of learning and personal experience. My personal experience of travellers had been uniformly negative, and as follows :-

1) As General Manager of a company on a trading estate our fleet of vehicles (locked in a secure pound) was ransacked for spares, including such things as doors, bonnets, wheels and engine components. Coincidentally at the same time a traveller encampment that had been on the estate for a few days disappeared overnight. The police advised that ours was the last of a spate of such things that occurred while they were there.
2) While a member of the parish council in the village where I live a traveller community appeared onto our playing field. This through a mysteriously “open” gate that had been locked and unused for years but somehow lost the chain and padlock, (never to be seen again,) on the night they rolled up. They stayed for 10 days, which strangely was precisely the length of time it took us to organise an eviction process. The ensuing clear up operation for what wes left behind and the legal process to evict cost us £40,000.
3) A “big fat gypsy wedding” took place on land neighbouring a business that I managed (not the same as at 1 above), and do you know what? Even though we locked all our vehicles inside the loading dock it was broken into and £67,000 worth of damage and theft took place. Curiously the travellers left shortly afterwards.
4) A tarmacing organisation employing people with heavy Irish accents appeared uninvited at the same company as at 3) above and proceeeded to spray tar onto the (fully occupied) car park area, damaging numerous cars in the process. When challeneged and requested to practice their craft elsewhere, they demanded £4000 in cash or “We will burn your **** place down”.
5) A woman purporting to be a Romany traveller, (also with a heavy Irish accent), came into my company asking that we buy some Lucky heather, an offer I considered most carefull before politely refusing. She then stood in reception delivering a tirade of abuse that would even make an Irish Tarmacer blush.

So thank God for the “Big Fat” series of fly on the wall documentaries which has given me an insight into the lives and lifestyles of this much maligned group. Without it I think I would have formed the view that in general they were a lying, thieving, cheating community of rogues living the life of Reilly off my back. I now appreciate that far from that they are in fact a distinct ethnic group with a set of strong moral traditions, which lead them to spend what little they do have on massively expensive religious and family events whilst being of no fixed abode and having no income.

Dont think he has a Gkurkas foreskin, never looked

This quote alone makes this the most epic thread. Ever.

99% of gypsies give the rest a bad name 😀

I did say that they don’t do themselves any favours.

The English Travs that I knew had no time at all for the Irish Travs, and wouldn’t let them on their site.

Some locals break the law when the Travs are in town, knowing that the Travs will get the blame.

As I say, they really don’t do themselves any favours.

BUT, Thelma’s initiative may be the start of change and well done to her, I hope it works.

There are no oppressive men in your gorger society that get jealous at the slightest thing.

There are no gorger women that feel trapped in gorger society and can’t escape an abusive relationship.

There are no illiterate gorgers in your gorgio world.

There are no small business self employed gorgers cooking their books or taking cash payments to avoid paying tax in your gorger economy.

Gorgers dont abuse other gorgers, steal, leave rubbish anywhere, perpetuate ignorance, act aggressively, fight other gorgers, bend the law to suit their own needs or desires, avoid paying tax or commit the occasional crime.

I’m so glad that your gorger world is so perfect.

The Irish Traveller world or the Romany Gypsy world (note they are two separate worlds) is far from perfect but what society isnt.

Good and bad everywhere.

Mandi jinns miro ratti.

I think on balance I’m quite glad that I live in a culture which isn’t so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean “everyone who isn’t like us.”

Yes but you could always borrow some Greek.

I think on balance I’m quite glad that I live in a culture which isn’t so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean “everyone who isn’t like us.”

100% this ^

😯

No, we have LOTS of words for people who aren’t like us – all of which will get me banned from the forum if I type them out in full – but to give some idea, let’s see:

N****r
P**i
C**n

Xenophobia? It might be a Greek word, but the British have surely appropriated its sentiment as their own!

Sorry, I’m obviously missing something; which one of those words describes everyone who isn’t like us?

“Foreigner”

From personal experience, that’s largely a perjorative term.

Cougar – Member
Sorry, I’m obviously missing something; which one of those words describes everyone who isn’t like us?

POSTED 13 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Them

Maybe, it’s like the Inuit are supposed to have (insert big number here) words for snow, each describing different kinds of snow, because snow plays such a large part in their lives. This society has all the words listed, any many others for describing the equivalent of gorger.

Why shouldn’t they have a word to describe people who are not like them anyway? They are a distinct race, thus everyone else is not of that race, thus there is a word to describe. I don’t have a problem with that.

Jewish people have a word for non-Jews.
Gay people have a word for non-gays.
Naturists have a word for non-naturists.
Etc.
Groups of people have words for others who are not in the group.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Travs (of any/all kinds) are saints, but I am saying that they aren’t all bad and aren’t all as bad as made out.

In any event, if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior in every way surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

I know the thread isn’t about it anymore, but I watched Thelma’s Gypsy Girls last night. I’m not anti-traveller or anything but that Victoria was a right stupid bitch 🙂

There are no oppressive men in your gorger society that get jealous at the slightest thing.

There are no gorger women that feel trapped in gorger society and can’t escape an abusive relationship.

There are no illiterate gorgers in your gorgio world.

There are no small business self employed gorgers cooking their books or taking cash payments to avoid paying tax in your gorger economy.

Gorgers dont abuse other gorgers, steal, leave rubbish anywhere, perpetuate ignorance, act aggressively, fight other gorgers, bend the law to suit their own needs or desires, avoid paying tax or commit the occasional crime.

I’m so glad that your gorger world is so perfect.

The Irish Traveller world or the Romany Gypsy world (note they are two separate worlds) is far from perfect but what society isnt.

Good and bad everywhere.

Mandi jinns miro ratti.

amen to that

In any event, if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior in every way surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

often those groups have no desire to be ‘integrated’

surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?

Yeah because that’s just what they want, to be integrated with gorgers 😆

Edit: Snap with MrSmith!!

I’m not saying Travs (of any/all kinds) are saints, but I am saying that they aren’t all bad and aren’t all as bad as made out.

They’re a group of people like any other, and there will be good and bad eggs I’m sure. In that respect, I don’t doubt that “travs” (ugh, really?) are any different from, say, cyclists, asians, christians, professional footballers, the unemployed, homosexuals, vegetarians, or middle-aged blonde women from Basildon. Rash generalisations are bad (generally).

if we are so perfect, educated, law-abiding and superior

I’m not sure why there’s suddenly a need to defend (or attack) this position when, far as I can see, no-one here has suggested that anyone believes this to be true.

In the rare moments where we were on topic here, the thrust was along the lines of “those people specifically who are on the TV show don’t do themselves any favours.” I’ve no idea whether they’re representative of travelling communities as a whole (and the danger of course is that a lot of people watching will think that), but here on STW at least no-one seems to be dull enough to be attacking the demographic as a whole.

“Foreigner”

Not bad. But there’s plenty of people who I wouldn’t identify as part of my cultural / social demographic but aren’t foreign (and conversely, some foreigners who I would).

surely it falls to us to take the first steps to integrate our societies?
Yeah because that’s just what they want, to be integrated with gorgers

Edit: Snap with MrSmith!!

Yet in many other countries in Europe,mthe gypsy commnity do want integration, in Romania, Slovakia, Albania, so this is a local effect.

the best thing is to go by your own experience rather than a TV program.
growing up in rural Kent i know a bit about about itinerants.
i can’t think of many favorable experiences/interactions but then one persons experience doesn’t reflect that of the population in general 🙄

Yet in many other countries in Europe,mthe gypsy commnity do want integration, in Romania, Slovakia, Albania, so this is a local effect.

Maybe the general population of those countries is more to the liking of the gypsies, should we become more like Romania, Slovakia & Albania to encourage the integration then?

Yeah, ‘cos that’s exactly what i said
🙄

Yeah, ‘cos that’s exactly what i said

I put a reason forward to your view then asked a a question? Whats wrong with that. Did I say you said anything?

Maybe the general population of those countries is more to the liking of the gypsies, should we become more like Romania, Slovakia & Albania to encourage the integration then?

but you asked a question based on a shaky assumption. Maybe this is because you are stupid, should we all be more like you, to facilitate discussions on this matter?

.

It’s a shame. Having said that, they don’t (as a group) help themselves.

Oh yes they do – to anything that isn’t nailed down 🙂 Gyppos recently used oxyacetalene torches to steal streetsigns and TRAFFIC LIGHTS from an industrial estate near me.

but you asked a question based on a shaky assumption

Why’s it shaky, seems totally logical, they integrate because they feel they fit in.

Maybe this is because you are stupid

😆 You loose any credibility when you start making personal insults. Don’t bother posting if you can’t even have a discussion and hear views that don’t fit in to you preconceived notions.

I think on balance I’m quite glad that I live in a culture which isn’t so xenophobic that it has a special word to mean “everyone who isn’t like us.”

I love the implied need for tolerance on a forum which shows a remarkable lack of tolerance towards those who choose different lifestyles, and which provides a platform for those with a false sense of superiority, to launch into judgmental rants aimed at those which they clearly view as morally and intellectually inferior 😀

All the builders I know have really nice, massive houses that I could never afford. I assume they do this by either building them themselves or having secret agreements with other tradesmen so they only charge them a reasonable amount and use quality products.

Build your own house out of materials charged to customers / accounted for as business costs = massive house costs peanuts

Like I said above, and like Mr Smith has repeated. Favourable interactions with travellers generally seem to be a bit rare for us gorgies or whatever they call us. Truthfully, and with tongue now removed from cheek, the opportuntiy to portray a more positive, less stereotypical image does appear to have largely been ignored by the makers of the recent spate of traveller shows.

There are only two reasonable interpretations of this, which are firstly, the shows are a true reflection and therefore simply reinforce the stereotypes. Secondly, they are simply the producers manipulating the content to achieve ratings regardless of the damage it does. Either way its not particularly edifying in my view so after getting the gist of it, its gone onto the telly off-kindle out listing in my house.

That apart, my general view remains consistent. No problem with anyone leading their way of life to the best of their ability as long as it doesn’t screw someone else over to do it. No problem in taking anyone at face value. However, the downside of that is I do object to being screwed over, and having accepted people at face value, if that face is particularly nasty then thats the value that is reciprocated.

the opportuntiy to portray a more positive, less stereotypical image does appear to have largely been ignored by the makers of the recent spate of traveller shows.

I dunno about ‘manipulating content’ exactly, but the group they’re televising won’t have been picked arbitrarily. If they’d picked a gentle, clean-living travelling family who spent their lives doing valuable community work in the areas where they’d established camp, how many viewers do you think they’d attract? Would we still be here discussing it?

It’s car-crash TV, by design. The ‘gypsy’ element is practically coincidental, they’ve just found a group of excessively boisterous people and filmed them playing up for the camera.

You loose any credibility when you start making personal insults.

I wasn’t being insulting! I was only suggesting a possible reason for your form of question.

Why’s it shaky, seems totally logical, they integrate because they feel they fit in.

No, actually they don’t integrate, because the local communities exclude them