Its very clear that very few of the folk commenting understand how helmets work at all.

As for medical opinion – I suggest you look at the BMJ debates on it.  Medical opinion is very divided.

I have read a lot of the data and research on helmets,. Followed the debate in the medical world on it, worked in head injury rehab.  Not an appeal to authority but simply stating my position that I have some knowledge

If you cna reduce G force by half, you could drastically reduce the severity. And given that a helmet is quite a bit thicker than the brain membrane, I can see that would be entirely plausible. I couldn’t find numbers on how much helmets reduce brain G force though.

Well, I can’t find the data for a human skull with no helmet – but EN1078 requires no more than 250g at 5.50m/s etc  – a Leatt downhill helmet smashes this requirement out of the ballpark by more than a 100g in every test.

https://www.leatt.com/product_uploads/helmet_test_reports/2018/DBX%205.0%20Test%20Report.pdf

So if a helmet can smash a standard by 100g, it’s going to reduce unprotected Gs by a great deal more.

Got any data for your opinion TJ?

What do you think of this paper?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29677686

Yes lots but I am checking out of this debate as its pointless.  People will believe what they want to not what the evidence states.  follow the science.  follow the evidence.  Read it all critically.  follow the BMJ debates. Mke your own mind up.

Lets rewind on the helmet debate; prevention is better than cure .. and a cracked helmet (even if it did have world champ stripes on it)

You guys can argue the merits of what protection a helmet provides – or makes you feels it provides, but the actual cause of the accident here was an over estimation of ability … and a disregard of possible dangers – caused by inexperience of the potential dangers of descending an unknown descent.
More skill may have got you around the bend safely, and greater experience would have encouraged you to have gone down it slower.

Speedy recovery James

https://watermark.silverchair.com/dyw153.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAigwggIkBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggIVMIICEQIBADCCAgoGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMTOJaz_YkdtHzb2RCAgEQgIIB2zk0XNYs0-_M2c618_Sk_yttUAswLz8a1SfNjw_c4C5xlcvq74N5sl5GLrLJGcH79u3lRIL5trqKBNnCpFftJOmFSWjA_z5_wSH2cNZUR5xC5P77zD3OEd0cuVUyL2Yo3Lsd8AOTImsGVjlJNMWCzp2IFDlXKgB3unWGIMyIOue7ljaYN_Ly_INdSXUTE00OoOtwGZQ7k6PwYpcmFNMdq0m26-pHhWvKQwhktgitYsG4CMI-x7Izz6D7MeoLl-Z6z4anPobqxkWKM7HTei0by2zN3bjGlbjnZ6O0GuBHvmIadrjpyzhNCeHfszRYFFqEWnsQDKsK2LU1irZsG2j3WADC9Y4SOsNPLNAiePlaJrx__o30KhLZjfJnI23cbtQuMIZIxmgew8bFcRMWI_eUzYVbCLXUSg9eu5JeoNCFw3UuHO_g8tc0ZcMFScGkIkIk4Gv2ZWZBwoYBSZQ5K1aif16QUj_CCvM0D1j8Qgf-YUmMzIO5f_shfq4N9mGy6kGpDarjvxujkCQRGzlUOH_9hiLe0IuEVsHFIv5GsBQ0DbiZ4s5paqcUedyBtsRYDHe85o22Q38WMv3ob50epmA6vk1EOn8-C-KW_ZwkxQC1LH9ft6k7B5my5WXwjdE

Then we have this one, that states that “These results suggest that an adjustment for risk compensation is difficult due to a lack of data and such an adjustment may also be unnecessary”

and also states that helmets are effective in mitigating head injuries.

Whilst Ben Goldacre has essentially stated – in short – that it’s too complicated to call either way, right now.

https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3817.full?ijkey=I5vHBog6FhaaLzX&keytype=ref

Another

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1369847816305666

“Risk compensation is an unlikely effect of using bicycle helmet.”

I’m not interested in the helmet debate, I just want to say that your previous thread regarding the accident made me descend a bit slower on Saturday, and rightly so given the conditions.

Get well soon SR.

At the end of the day  for whatever reason SR slid headfirst into a wall. Once you’ve arrived at that point, as far as I’m concerned only an idiot would say a helmet doesn’t afford at least some protection. That doesn’t mean you should wear one, that always has to be personal choice.

I for one am glad SR was wearing one, considering the helmet damage and his injuries which were sustained by forces originating from a blow to his head, it’s very likely that his consultant is correct.

Chin up SR you’ve been given another bite of the cherry, I know you’ll make the most of it.

I’m not interested in the helmet debate

Get well soon SR.

This.  Only on STW can some poor bloke lying in pieces descend into an argument about wearing helmets.

Worse case of premature flounce we’ve seen for a while.  Makes sense when you know you are on a hiding to nothing.

as far as I’m concerned only an idiot would say a helmet doesn’t afford at least some protection.

some protection … of course it will provide some protection … a large lettuce leaf cello-taped to the top of your head could be argued to provide some protection … not a lot of protection, but it would provide some protection.

Stick to looking for the G Spot Miller.

Glad you’re here to see all this dialogue being posted and sorry that folk chose to do it in this thread. I’m a calculating helmet user but on a road bike at speed my choice is always helmet.

 the actual cause of the accident here was an over estimation of ability … and a disregard of possible dangers

Yes, a mistake was made.  I make mistakes too, I’ve even crashed a few times.  I still wear a lid tho.

I can’t believe people are such bell-ends sometimes.

Cor, there aren’t half some pillocks on here. There are cracks around about a quarter of that helmet. Let’s get someone who actually knows about the physics involved to work out some kind of range of impact that would have caused that and see if any of the blowhards will volunteer to have an impact at the lower end of the range inflicted on their head with some kind of hammer. No?

All the best with the recovery and it is probably not surprising that you are having a bit of a ‘moment’ about a sliding doors moment. Try to take a step back and get things into perspective. One thing I have learnt over the last few years is that some mental issues are very difficult to ‘snap yourself out of’ and it is frightening how real things can seem even when they are being generated internally.

whilst a helmet may or may not offer much in the reduction in impact forces and G loading , where they do score is in secondary injuries. Sliding down the road on your face will soon waer through skin a soft tissue , bouncing along encased in a good few mm of polystyrene will help avoid this ( in some, not all  situations )

So even after your helmet ( skull )has taken the initial impact, the helmet can still do a job of work.

Its simple really. I will  stand above you on a ladder  holding a breeze block. Do  you want to wear a helmet before I drop it or not?

Maybe there needs to  be more work in having helmets made up with differing layers of polystyrene , with different density;s and or crush strength. So they decellerate at a given load and deform, would also help doctors to understand point of impact , and if the helmet fails then is more likely to be repalced, as one that has ben in a knock and ‘appears’ to be undamaged , or just have superfiscisal markings

In other news. I understand where SR is coming from, I had a car crash late one night . The next morning I went to the recovery yard to get some stufff out the car. The first warning was the guy in the office. ‘Its the grey Rover ‘, I said. ” Christ man , you were driving that ! “was the reply , ” Are you OK? ”

Walked round the corner to see a banana’d car , with the door handle practically touching the handbrake . Had to have  a little moment alone as it was a proper shock.

I can’t believe people are such bell-ends sometimes.

I can believe it; some people have demonstrated it so often on here its etched in my memory for  ever.

People will believe what they want to

Ain’t that the truth, TJ?

GWS SR. Whatever your view on helmets, that’s a scary situation that you’ve survived. Time to breathe a sigh of relief, relax and be thankful for everything we have (up to and including a first class trauma service that sorted you out. For free!).

Couldn’t SR do it all again but this time without wearing a helmet? Surely that would settle a few issues…

GWS anyway

Whatever the case regarding risk compensation, the lid mitigated Saxon’s injuries. It might have saved his life.

Get well soon, mate.

For free

Not exactly…

Anyone that has convinced themselves that a helmet won’t significantly benefit their safety in a wide range of crash scenarios is utterly fooling themselves.

Wow – CynicAl and TJ in ultimate forum hard men bellendery competition – who will come out on top?

some people have demonstrated it so often on here its etched in my memory for  ever.

+1

Loving the ad hominems! Also

Only on STW can some poor bloke lying in pieces descend into an argument about wearing helmets.

Only on here could someone get so offended on behalf of another who doesn’t appear offended whatsoever.

Loving the ad hominems!

I am sure you are.

What would be the point of trolling a thread started by a bloke in a hospital bed if you didn’t enjoy baiting people ?

Obvious isn’t it.

Not engaging in the helmet debate.  I am however very glad you are still around!

Take care and continue recovering!

Not entirely unrelated but makes an excellent read on someone’s personal experience of a serious head injury from a rockfall strike to an unprotected skull whilst climbing; Paul Pritchard’s The Totem Pole.

not trolling at all Neal, sorry to disappoint

Maybe there needs to be more work in having helmets made up with differing layers of polystyrene , with different density;s and or crush strength.

Leatt, Fox and Kali are all using two layers of eps, consisting of interlocking pyramids – with the base pyramids that point up being made of higher desnity EPS, this means – that as the EPS crushes, it gets increasingly harder to deform instead of spiking during the transition from low density EPS to high density EPS.

6D also have a really awesome system, which my old man bought into after sparking himself out at the age of 58. Which makes me feel a bit better as concussions can be much worse later in life.

I’m glad Saxonrider is ok anyway.

I had a collision with one of those Magnetic Tree Stumps that attract the front wheel during an event recently ,that lead to me going OTB and head butting a friendly rock .

A following rider stopped and asked if i was OK as i was lying in his way , i got up took off my helmet (Halfords Hard NUTZ) and felt i had an abrasion to fore head where the helmet moved on my head.

Got back on bike and felt little wobbly but carried on and completed event the remaining 25km and thought no more other than glad i wore a helmet.

Move on to the Tuesday night when the wife’s at work and i’m reading the article in Singletrack about “MIPS” and i decide to take a closer look at my helmet to discover its actually broken right through where the impact was.so i had a possible lucky escape as without said helmet i most certainly would of ended up in casualty if not in ICU itself.

So , today I’ve just collected my new BELL helmet with MIPS.

Money well spent i think .

Gordon Bennett, what a palaver. Doctors say things like “Without the helmet you’d be dead” all the time. It’s a casual remark for god’s sake, it’s not meant to be a clinical opinion.

There is no doubt that the helmet is seriously damaged and as science officer points out, there is evidence of extensive deformation and cracking running right back through the helmet. I think we can agree that if SR hadn’t have been wearing the helmet he would have sustained significant, and quite possibly fatal, head injuries.

Good on you for posting SR and taking the subsequent bunfight in good spirit. Don’t worry about your reaction, quite natural given what’s happened to you and given that you’re talking about it and obviously a strong individual, you’ll be reet!

Having had 2 crashes resulting in ambulance trips, both involving hitting my head and smashing my helmets, I am with the OP on this one. I do also understand the viewpoint that TJ put forward and am confident in his knowledge, research and substantial medical experience.  I guess there’s a limit to what a foam and plastic lid can do, but I am in no doubt that from a personal perspective my helmet reduced my injuries in both my nasty crashes.

OP, I am heartened by your resilience and wish you all the best in your recovery and eventual return to biking.

Anyone that has convinced themselves that a helmet will significantly benefit their safety in a wide range of crash scenarios is utterly fooling themselves.

FTFY.

Get well soon Saxon

on the helmet debate it’s really very simple

who’s head was in the helmet ?

If he says it saved him I’m not arguing!

Good to see you ahve maintaned the presence of mind to kick off a good debate, speaks well of the recovery from concussion (caused or not by the helmet). Hope all going well and rest of recovery proceeding well.

Get well soon & all that but how is the Bike? 🙂