The F1 2015 thread…

VW/Audi/etc won’t be coming in, not in 2017 at least (look at Honda’s position having rushed their engine development compared to Merc who took 4 years)

Ignoring the fact that VW have some pretty big bills to pay at the moment they would use either Audi or Porsche for the engine given their knowledge built up from LMP hybrid development.

The more I read about Eccleston the more of tw*t I think he is.

I think Ecclestone’s just being clever. Just trying to make merc (most likely) or ferrari (less likely, since they;re FIA/Todt bum chums) blink first and cave in. Scare Merc with the fact that there could be a better customer team than them regardless, and with one merc can control the situation, but with the other, couldn’t.

tw*t maybe, but a damn clever businessman clearly.

VW are not going to come into F1 anytime soon, they are facing fines and recall costs in the billions plus drops in revenue for 2016, and could be wrapped up in litigation for a long time.

Eccleston is a tw*t who simply follows the money, but even he can see that Merc dominating for years isn’t going end well (which effects the bottom line of course). If people don’t believe other teams can even challenge for a race win then people will (and are) switch off. Even the 92 season that big Nige won at a canter had a greater variety of winners than this season.

It is worth noting that viewing figures were down in the UK for the Texas GP despite Hamilton being up for the championship win.

not helped by it being on sky rather than beeb.
I watched on RTL and listened on radio 5 live.

edit: and also on at funny hours compared to the bulk of races

I should say that’s viewing figures down against previous years at the same venue, and for both BBC and Sky, despite the Sky broadcasting on both F1 and Sports 1.

Probably not helped by Hamilton seemingly not being liked in the UK and Europe. I wonder if had it been Button going for his 3rd championship if the ratings would have been better?

it’s also now the season for Strictly and all the other nonsense voting shows in the run up to Christmas.
RTL only managed to show quali because it was delayed to Sunday, and either they rescheuled sunday am telly to fit it in, or got lucky with showing live quali in the slot that would normally have been saturday quali highights.
Even a TV station that always shows every FP1/2/3 session and Quali and Race all live plus highlights, demoted F1, so they can show the German equivalent of britian’s got talent.
And then of course the race is also prime time sunday telly. Timezones might just about let mexico and brazil be shown live without affecting the prime time money spinners. (edit: and if not, they’re demoted to BBC2)

Bernie – the ultimate wheeler dealer – he’s ace – announcing this to divide and conquer

With this, a big pay-off to Renault to re-enter F1, whilst burying the hatchet with Red Bull and allowing Honda to catch up will help Bernie have 4 teams in his pocket

Yep, he’s greedy – but he’s so cunning!

Viewing figures are down due to the stupid decision to put F1 on Sky

Probably not helped by Hamilton seemingly not being liked in the UK and Europe. I wonder if had it been Button going for his 3rd championship if the ratings would have been better?

last years sports personality of the year was…… LH. The Englishman won 209,920 of the 620,932 votes cast.

What happened to less pit wall and driver communication? Seems like the teams are still telling the drivers when to switch engine modes or when to put in some easy laps or to push. I though all of this was banned only safety messages allowed?

Also not sure if this idea has been mentioned, but would reducing the amount of telemetry the teams are allowed to gather help make F1 more exciting.

It seems to me that the teams have loads of sensors and statistics and can predict quite accurately how different parts of the car will react so they know exactly how hard to push something or not.

But every time the conditions are changeable and the teams don’t have loads of stats on what’s going to happen next things get mixed up a bit.

They could still have all the sensors they want for safety reasons ie they can see when the brakes are overheating and about to explode. But they wouldn’t know if they are just running a bit hot.

Bernie – the ultimate wheeler dealer – he’s ace

er

Viewing figures are down due to the stupid decision to put F1 on Sky

Bernie – the ultimate wheeler dealer – he’s ace

Bernie, the king of back handers!

“Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone says Sepp Blatter should remain in charge of Fifa despite facing corruption charges.

If people allegedly have been corrupted to make things happen in their country, it’s good.

He also backed Russian President Vladimir Putin and said there was “no place for democracy.”

In the past, Ecclestone has referred to women as “domestic appliances” and praised Adolf Hitler as someone who “got things done.”

Fair play to Sauber and Force India pushing F1 to the EU courts over unfair pay awards, Bernie will make it go away some how. It’s insane that last year Ferrai earned more than Mercedes yet Mercedes won the title…

I just find F1 boring and unbalanced these days, give me BTCC/WTCC/WEC. Not perfect by any means but raw action, fairer and more interesting to watch.

F1 really needs to get rid of Ecclestone, he was great back in the late 70’s / 80’s, but it is too much of a closed shop with him ruining running the show.

Allow more than one tyre manufacturer into the show, cut back on electronic aids / telemetery / allow multi fuel formula, and stop threatening to take F1 away from established circuits because you want an extra few million to race there.

According to the Telegraph that mrsH showed me Lewis is impossible to like in the UK. I replied ‘stop reading the daily newspapers and BBC news website (that seems to be the worse BBC outlet). It’s all trolling/story spinned crap.

I feel a bit for NR, but there can only be one number one, and he’s not it.

He’s not even number two! I think that Vettel has really shown his talent this season. As much as I want to chop that finger off he’s beaten Rosberg who’s driving a much superior car and totally thrashed his team mate, who’s no slouch either.

While Hamilton is being compared to the greats like Senna the reality is he is very far behind. Rosberg has had a so so year (generous as he couldn’t start or stay on the track) but a number of the other top drivers put in the Mercedes could/would have won the championship.

I’ve had the “pleasure” of doing a business deal with Eccelstone, just one wouldn’t do another. Whatever you think of him the success of F1 is in large part down to him, eg yes the history of F1 lies in Europe but if the Middle East and Asia are prepared to pay daft money to host we can watch on TV. He’s Mr Teflon even skipping a conviction having bribed the banker to get control of F1 back.

I can’t see ANY way VW/Audi/Porsche (all part of the group) would be in F1 in the near future, the diesel scandal has very far to run and if the US lawyers think the group has a single spare cent to spend on racing they’ll be all over that.

While Hamilton is being compared to the greats like Senna the reality is he is very far behind. Rosberg has had a so so year (generous as he couldn’t start or stay on the track) but a number of the other top drivers put in the Mercedes could/would have won the championship.

Senna won his championships in all conquering McLarens! Remember 88, where Mclaren won all the races except italy!

also, i have never truly understood the hysteria around senna, when i was growing up watching F1, I thought he was always a bit underhand – he renegaded deal with Prost into the first corner in san marino, rammed drivers off the road, bullied people on track….. amazing driver but there is a pattern, to win you have to be a bit nasty, take no prisoner and drivers like senna, mansell, schumacher, hakkinen and alonso have that about them, so does Hamilton.

I’m not a huge Senna fan (Prost was better IMO) but he did win races in a Lotus before being at McLaren. Hamilton has only ever won in the best cars on the grid.

Monaco 1984.

jambalaya – Member

While Hamilton is being compared to the greats like Senna the reality is he is very far behind. Rosberg has had a so so year (generous as he couldn’t start or stay on the track) but a number of the other top drivers put in the Mercedes could/would have won the championship.

Far behind in what regard?

On pure pace and car control, personally I think he’s always been there or thereabouts.

What he’s lacked has been race-craft and temperament. Two things he has massively improved over the last two years. Worthy triple champion IMHO.

Rosberg’s been made to look a bit pants, because Ham is at the top of his game.

Hamilton has only ever won in the best cars on the grid.

rubbish – he won twice in a dog of a mclaren in 2009

We’ve already done that there are several other drivers who would be WDC if they were team mates with NR at Mercedes – I’m not so sure any of them would be WDC if they were team mates with LH.

Statistically LH has won more races than Senna, with a higher start to win conversion rate and the same number of WDC. It’s tricky to compare drivers from different eras who’ve never raced each other, but we only need 3 pieces of evidence here:

Hmm, well it gets tricky here, because video clips of Alonso vs Hamilton don’t seem readily available – I presume there are copyright issues, but I give you the 2007 season.

Oh, and in answer to dragon, Hamilton has won races every year he’s been in F1, he’s been in far from the best car some of those years.

It wasn’t that bad a car during that portion of the 2009 season, as Heki in the other car got a 4th place and a few other solid 5th and 6ths during the same period.

@nemesis – Bernie is is the ultimate wheeler dealer because viewing figures don’t matter, like the line from Oiliver “in this life one thing counts, in the bank large amounts”

Comparing sportsmen from different eras is fabulously difficult. Also I appreciate this has been discussed before but I see Vettel and Hanilton as kind of the same, very good drivers able to pt themselves in the best cars and that’s the most important thing in F1, the car

It wasn’t the best car on the grid though.

It’s a different world. Would senna be able to drive today’s cars with all the knowledge of computers and technology that is required? Would he even be fit enough compared to today’s drivers?

It’s such a different game there’s really little point in comparing them

Hamilton is up there with Alonso – maybe even better as he’s been pretty canny getting into the right car in at least 3 seasons

Vettel has massively impressed me this year – to get 3 wins this year against the might Mercs is mighty impressive – so i would put him up there with Hamilton & Rosberg

I never thought i’d admit that!!

It wasn’t that bad a car during that portion of the 2009 season, as Heki in the other car got a 4th place and a few other solid 5th and 6ths during the same period.

Let’s leave it there before you embarrasse yourself further

It wasn’t that bad a car during that portion of the 2009 season, as Heki in the other car got a 4th place and a few other solid 5th and 6ths during the same period.

I wasn’t sure which side of the argument he was trying to come down on there either ❓

Those who sat Vettel is in the top flight might wish to explain why he was whipped by Ricciardo last year.

Race Vettel Ricciardo Vettel Ricciardo Vettel Ricciardo
Australia 12 2 DNF DSQ 0 0
Malaysia 2 5 3 DNF 15 0
Bahrain 10 13 6 4 23 12
China 3 2 5 4 33 24
Spain 15 3 4 3 45 39
Monaco 4 3 DNF 3 45 54
Canada 3 6 3 1 60 79
Austria 12 5 DNF 8 60 83
Great Britain 2 8 5 3 70 98
Germany 6 5 4 6 82 106
Hungary 2 4 7 1 88 131
Belgium 3 5 5 1 98 156
Italy 8 9 6 5 106 166
Singapore 4 3 2 3 124 181
Japan 9 6 3 4 139 193
Russia 10 6 8 7 143 199
United States 18 5 7 3 149 214
Brazil 6 9 5 DNF 159 214
Abu Dhabi 19 20 8 4 167 238
Total Best 9 10 3 11 167 238
Best Qualifier: Ricciardo Best Race Results: Ricciardo Most points: Ricciardo

I have never truly understood the hysteria around senna, when i was growing up watching F1, I thought he was always a bit underhand – he renegaded deal with Prost into the first corner in san marino, rammed drivers off the road, bullied people on track….. amazing driver but there is a pattern, to win you have to be a bit nasty, take no prisoner and drivers like senna, mansell, schumacher, hakkinen and alonso have that about them, so does Hamilton.

Senna was different from Schumacher though.

Senna would be ruthless on the track but humble off it. He did tonnes of charity work for Brazil, set up a foundation and was a very religious man. He was also seen to be very concerned of the well-being of other drivers too, Donnelly’s crash at Jerez being one example constantly cited by his peers and also the way he rushed to Zanardi’s rescue (his actions were said to save his life) after his massive crash at Spa in ’93. He was two different people in and out of the car and the line was drawn around the cockpit.
Schumacher was ruthless at all times, never apologising for errors, defending them even. Hew would act all arrogant and aloof throughout his career (pt.1 especially) and would exploit any tiny advantage at any time. Being defacto No.1 at Ferrari was a prime example. It was only in his second F1 career that he learned to be more open and accepting of any flaws in his skills.

One endeared himself to his peers and the public, the other was respected but not overly liked. For the record I’m a fan of both of them on the track for their sublime car handling skills but I only ever liked Senna off the track. Hamilton seems to be following Senna Alonso the Schumacher model. Vettel seems to be somewhere in the middle with his sense of humour.

one could argue the same that ricciardo won 3 races last year in the inferior renault rbr the same as vettel this year with arguably a worse engined car.

I think that vettel had orchestrated the move to ferrari with a combination of lack of on track results and amblivalence.

He was also seen to be very concerned of the well-being of other drivers too

Apart from Prost!

2 hours to go. I’m weirdly excited about this one! Not sure how because both championships have been decided but I think it’s gonna be a good’un! 🙂

interesting to too see how ruthless hamilton can be. he’s a born racer but does he have a soft center ? Mind you Rosberg is getting more irrational day by day.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

safety car – – so we’ll see now if Lewis is under team orders to stay behind Nico so he can claim 2nd spot in the WDC…

I take it all back, not a super exciting race that one. Vettel was not doing well at all! Wonder what was happening there. Bit of a lame performance from Ferrari all round really. Also looks like Lewis is throttling back slightly now that he has his world championship, which is fair enough I guess! 😉

I have to say that Herman and pals have done a great job at the stadium section as it must be awesome driving through there and having the podium presentation in front of the stands. After all the trash talk about Renault I wonder how rbr can ask for a competitive engine., Seems to me they beat a couple of Ferraris and several Mercedes.
I was glad Bottas managed to survive the crash and come in 3rd as he should’ve done in the last race. Super drive from NIco and Kvyat and all in all a decent addition to the calendar.
I think the frustration with Hamilton is that elusive number of wins in a season. The less said about the new mchonda engine the better