Forum menu
... the real failure is a Governmental (and not just UK) one. The failure to ramp up zero carbon electricity generation fast enough.
All alternative fuel solutions, EV, hydrogen, synthetic fuel require zero CO2 require zero carbon electricity generation to work.
Our Salary Sacrifice scheme is now kicking off, so considering moving on from the i3s. Any thoughts on Polestar 2? Deals on these due to the facelift, but won't be around for long. Am mightily tempted to wait for EX30 though.
Cost of lease still seems eye watering compared to sticking with what I have mind. Perhaps EX30 is the first of a wave of slightly more affordable mid range EVs?
It's worth checking the SS lease costs verses what's on the open market. There's lots of price gouging as they know you're getting 40% off
Our Salary Sacrifice scheme is now kicking off, so considering moving on from the i3s. Any thoughts on Polestar 2? Deals on these due to the facelift, but won’t be around for long. Am mightily tempted to wait for EX30 though.
I’ve got a 2024 Polestar 2 on order to replace my Model 3 Performance. The PS2 was quiet, comfortable, hatchback, has wipers and adaptive headlights that work, and door handles normal people know how to use. It was also a fair amount less than the Model 3 on our scheme. Delivery Oct/Nov apparently.
I also tested the i4, and agree with the posts above about it. That’s a great car, but I just couldn’t get comfortable in the seat.
The EX30 is tiny, but will sell bucket loads.
Yep, did that as that's what I expected too. But it's genuinely looking like a good deal, looking like less than £500 for the DM Plus with nothing up front.
EX30 isn't tiny. It's a sensible size for what I need, Polestar is bigger than I want really. The i3s is 20cm shorter than the EX30.
£500 for the DM Plus
That’s for a ‘23 car?
I’ll be paying just over 600 for a 2024 Long Range Single Motor Pilot/Plus over 48 months all inclusive as a 40%er.
Weirdly, on my scheme, the 23 cars are more expensive than the 24s!
Yes Ben, 23 model. Awaiting confirmation but the SM LR Plus could be around £420. And on mine the 24 cars are significantly more, would expect that to down to broker commitments, hence me thinking I need to jump now or wait 9-12 months.
Gotcha. 23 cars wouldn’t work for me, the range isn’t suitable for my use. Hence going for the 24.
@B.A.Nana I saw a lot of folks talking of doing that in Tesla forums. What’s the advantage to you of using the % charge reading?
Mainly because mile's is going to be inaccurate based on many factors, particularly how you drive it. I guess it's like a petrol car has a fuel gauge that says full/half/empty for a reason (not 500miles/250miles/zero miles). It just made sense to me, but everyone can do what they're comfortable with, one of my friends only uses the miles display which is fine by me. I presume it's a similar thing with phones and laptops, that the manufacturers don't put hours use on the main display, as it depends on how bright you have the screen and what tasks are being performed, whereas battery % is what it is.
My Hyundai is pretty good with miles remaining. It adapts to how the drive is going. In contrast to the miles remaining display on the Merc which is useless as it averages over only the last few minutes which means it plummets when you go up a hill and goes sky high when you go down the other side.
Our 2 cars are completely different in terms of range prediction. The Tesla seems to give a predicted range that would equate to 4 miles/kWh. This is quite achievable in warmer weather so you get pretty much what you expect, sometimes slightly better or worse depending on how you drive. If you feel like it, it’s not that difficult to average 5miles/KWh on a longer journey.
The Renault Zoe is less efficient but also super pessimistic and seems to assume you’re going to drive really badly. On a typical longer journey you can nearly always do 30-40 miles more than it expects. With a usable 52kWH it calculates based on about 3.3miles per kWh, when in fact 3.7-3.8 is perfectly achievable.
Same as Molgrips my KIA (Hyundai sister company) is really good at predicting true mileage.
Mine seems to take the last few trips into account, maybe 5 or so. This means the 100% range drifts up and down in summer and winter. Seems a little pessimistic as last time I got down to 10% it said 25 miles, and there's no way it would do 250 miles on a charge. That was an economical trip though, around 5.3m/kWh, but that's still only 203 miles or so.
Doesn’t that make it optimistic??
The hot weather has significantly reduced the consumption of my e-Up. Drove across the Peak District today, over the Cat & Fiddle. Would normally expect a hill route to give high consumption, as the regen on the downhill doesn't make for the extra on the uphill because of conversion efficiencies. Overall consumption 6.7miles/kWh. That would give 215 miles range compared to the nominal 160 miles.
That was an economical trip though, around 5.3m/kWh, but that’s still only 203 miles or so.
There’s a little village in South Devon I’ve stayed in a few times, and I thought I’d check to see whereabouts the nearest WV charging stations are. Now, it’s located right on the coast exactly between the ‘h’ and ‘m’ of ‘Motorhome Club Campsite’. It’s 150 miles from where I live, and while topping up somewhere around Totnes, Torquay, Brixham on the way down, but that’s at least twenty-odd miles to charge up again, a real PITA. There’s four or five regular filling stations within six or seven miles, and my car has a range of around 340 miles. My old Skoda got 500 miles out of a tank. EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned. Although Porsche have an 800 mile range car on the way - that’s what is needed. The map shows charging stations in South Devon.
Ur map is saricin 🤣
Have a look at Zap Map:
The area isn't blessed with rapid chargers, but these are popping up more and more.
BTW, I stayed on your map a few weeks back. Charged my car overnight at the house i rented. No need to visit a petrol station and overall spend about £10 on electric, doing 270 miles. Seems pretty decent to me.
I've just returned from a 316 mile round trip in a Corsa e. From Bury to York, then to flamborough head, down the coast to spurn point, back to York via Beverley and then home via Skipton, a reverse of the outbound route to York.
It went pretty well. Charged at the York hyperhub at Popelton. Pretty cheap 46ppkw on the way out, rapid charge. 26ppkw on the way back, night rate? And a charge on the outskirts of Hull, which was fast. The car seemed to suggest 5.3 miles/kw.
I made progress on the fast A roads and the motorways. Had an enjoyable trip. The charging time amounted to around 1hr20 in total.
The car was decent. Range wasn't an issue. I had a good idea where to charge and a few backup options. The York hyperhub was well worth the minor detour on the way home for the cheap fast charging and avoiding the m62 for the return leg.
EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned.
The problem isn't the cars, it's the chargers.
Between North and South Wales there are about three chargers (not charging stations, actual chargers) but EVs are still better than ICEs and I still want one. Because you can manage.
My old Skoda got 500 miles out of a tank. EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned. Although Porsche have an 800 mile range car on the way – that’s what is needed.
It's really not. It's what YOU need for 0.01% of your journeys.
We've driven from Bath to Scotland, Newcastle, Cornwall in an i3 with only 150miles of range and it's been fine. Yes, it's taken 1-2 hours longer and took more planning, but its FAR FAR from "hopeless".
@countzero
16 x Osprey DC rapid chargers at Salmons Leap Hub, Buckfastleigh, There's also a dedicated cafe there. That's where I'd plan to be at some point or certainly have a note of it if I fail to charge at my accommodation or a destination charge.
Any thoughts on Polestar 2? Deals on these due to the facelift, but won’t be around for long. Am mightily tempted to wait for EX30 though.
I really like mine (although only had it a few months), performance is great and ride comfort is good. Range isn't great, real world it's around 200 miles (with the 20" wheels) if you drive very sensibly, more like 175 miles for my general driving. Some people complain about their left knee rubbing on the centre console but it's not an issue for me and general visibility isn't very good (the rear window is heavily tinted and the B pillar obstructs most over-the-shoulder glances - I'm glad mine came with the blind spot detection system). There's decent room in the back and the boot is a good size + the hatchback opening makes it more versatile than say an M3's
The EX30 is very tempting though at that prices being stated, I'm not a fan of the boxy mini-SUV styling but I could live with it for the performance of the car. It is very small in the back but if you're not carrying rear passengers often that's not really an issue. When it's actually going to start shipping to UK customers though, that would be my biggest worry for a car that's just announced
We've started to use the Octopus Electroverse app. For fetching the lad from Portsmouth (260 mile return trip), we're going to stop on the way down for 15 mins (assuming DC charger available) and then drive straight home without a further charge.
That's leaving with 100% battery (on the cheap overnight tariff) and returning with around 20% which again we'll top up at home.
It's not as easy as filling stations everywhere, but it's not difficult with a bit of planning (and obv some areas of the country are very poorly served with DC chargers like here!).
Driving over 200 miles in one go is not usual for us. Hence going for the smaller battery. I'd say 95% + of the time we'd never need a public charger. And - as a cop out - if we do need to do a long trip/multi day/etc we have my ICE car. But that'll be changed to an electric when the lease is up (hoping Skoda do an EV Octavia)
I could do without the plethora of apps/charge types/etc/etc but it's defo not a deal breaker
Wait he complained about there being no chargers at his destination when there's a 16 charger hub just up the road?
That's excellent coverage. You don't always have to wait til empty to charge. You could charge back up at Buckfastleigh, drive around all weekend and charge up on the way home.
My mate regularly drives from Scotland to mid Wales, and he does it in an EV.
EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned. Although Porsche have an 800 mile range car on the way – that’s what is needed. The map shows charging stations in South Devon.
You're also ignoring that you can charge from any 3 pin plug of which there are many. Our car you can add ~100miles range on a 12 hour overnight charge on a 3 pin plug.
So, for example, if you were going for a week's holiday in the Highlands you'd have far more ease "refueling" an EV than an ICE car (unless you're staying in a bothy).
It's been done to death on this thread but taking edge cases of car use and presenting that a proof EVs are crap is tedious. "I'm a travelling saleman with sites in Thurso and Truro and my EV has been a nightmares" type of stuff.
I rarely charge away from home. Sadly when I do the motorway provision is poor. The Ionity’s on the M25 are always busy with a gaggle of cars waiting in no particular queue system. Plus they seem to max out at <100 when my Ionic 5 should be getting 220. Gridserve are cheaper, but the machines are a mish-mash and the doubles only ever seem to take 1.
Luckily I charge at home with IO for 7.5p/kWh. Telling my Ohme charger I need more than I do seems to start my cheap period earlier.
My old Skoda got 500 miles out of a tank. EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned. Although Porsche have an 800 mile range car on the way – that’s what is needed.
driving 500 miles never mind 800 miles without proper breaks is both dangerous and physically uncomfortable. I just did my first proper long distance EV stuff (because of train strikes). Edinburgh to Coventry. The apps will work out the optimal stops for you depending on your preference on range anxiety, your desire to drive at 80/70/60 regardless of the speed limit etc - but a six hour journey plus two 20ish minutes stops which is barely long enough to go for a pee, order a coffee, wait for the coffee and drink it. I have a nominal 250 mile range (it was about 330 miles).
I used to do a very similar journey regularly when I was 21. I could make it on a full tank of fuel and sometimes tried to do it non-stop. I was probably driving too tired. My legs and neck complained about sitting for so long. That gave me an incentive to drive faster, whilst the EV gives me an incentive to drive more sensibly to reduce the need for charging (or at least charging at motorway rates).
The Ionity’s on the M25 are always busy with a gaggle of cars waiting in no particular queue system.
Heathrow Superchargers at Heathrow open to all vehicles now (Bath Rd) as is Uxbridge. Go to https://chargefinder.com/ and then click "show map", and then in the filter list (top right hand corner), filter by operator and pick "Tesla (open to all)."
There's a surprising number around the M25 now.
I'm also tempted by the Polestar, but I'm hanging back for the newer version although the offer price is pretty good, esp as they're throwing in winter wheels/tyres. I know a good number of people with them, no complaints
I'm amazed I've survived for 4+ years of climbing and general stuff in a hopeless car, and mine does have rubbish range! But I do live in a real world. CHeap tho' 😉
We're now fully electric in the BOAS household. Mrs Stick has an e-Mini (125 mile range max. on about 3.8 mile/kw if we're being good, but sooo much fun it rarely happens!) and I have an e-Niro (265 mile range on about 4.2 miles/kw lots of bells and whistles and easy driving).
Impact on the electricity usage is very noticeable, but still massively cheaper than the equivalent dino-juice cost.
Main issue is going to be fighting over who gets the charger overnight, might have to get a second one installed (assuming it doesn't break the grid) ...
I have some older PV solar panels which produce about 1.2kw over daytime usage at this time of year, but apparently the minimum current to charge EVs at is 6 Amps so I'm going to have to wait until my FIT tariff ends before being more intelligent with using that to power the vehicles.
I have found that booting our EV around makes little difference to the economy. But higher top speed, even a steady one does.
Wall box finally going in tomorrow, all going well. Had the car a month and done 900 miles with only one issue with public charging, where an advertised 50kw was only supplying 6kw. Luckily this was just a top up and had plenty to do another few days before I was at my usual that worked well. Weekend trip to Fort William done with only one 30 minute top up. Most chargers round here (Angus) tend to be little used. Chargeplace Scotland card has been great, all the local authority and public services ones and more, all over Scotland on one card. Did pay the extra £12 for a physical card as phone service in some places can be dodgy and it's worked perfectly. Haven't had to use any of the BMW network ones that came with the car.
Has needed a change in mindset compared to ICE. No more running down to near empty then filling up, but a more little an often approach. That will be even easier from tomorrow.
I've ordered and been told end of July 2024 for delivery...I knew there would be a wait and unsure why I'm surprised at over a year, but there we go.
I also have Chargeplace Scotland App and card in anticipation of car delivery next month !
which bmw did you go with ?
mine is coming from Tusker, though currently remains a build picture 😂
iX3.
Like the extra range and efficiency of the i4 but prefer the extra boot height of the iX3. With a young child, I always seem to be transporting odd shaped items that would foul a hatch back with the rear seats in place.
Also an oversupply of them in the chain. I was 2.5 weeks from order to delivery and got £6.5k off.
olddogFull Member
… the real failure is a Governmental (and not just UK) one. The failure to ramp up zero carbon electricity generation fast enough.
Very much this. People on here talking about dino-juice when at the moment 1.4% of electricity generation is coming from coal. I’m sure some folks think electricity for their EV is generated via pixie farts.
I’m sure some folks think electricity for their EV is generated via pixie farts.
No, but most of it is low or zero carbon: https://grid.iamkate.com/
On average in the UK in 2022 it was 193g/kWh of electricity, in my car that's 41g/km of CO2. Around a third of a really good ICE car and about a quarter of my diesel on a really good trip. So it's better.
I’m sure some folks think electricity for their EV is generated via pixie farts.
Last year up here in Scotland, 25% of total electricity production came from wind power, so it kind of does.
My old Skoda got 500 miles out of a tank. EV’s are hopeless as far as a decent range is concerned
I did quite a lot of +300 mile non stop journeys in my youth. Think these days my bladder would dictate stops!
I did quite a lot of +300 mile non stop journeys in my youth
But was it essential? Would it have ruined your trip if you'd had to stop for 40 mins?
Anyway - searched on Autotrader for any EV ordered by price, and you can get a Mitsubishi i-Miev starting at about three grand. 60 ish mile range and very clearly a city car, but at that price it's actually pretty interesting. 80mph, 4 star crash rating, seems to be a proper car. It has better stats than the Fiesta I learned to drive in.
did quite a lot of +300 mile non stop journeys in my youth
Yoofs do stupid things. 4-5+ hrs non stop would be dangerous enough to be an issue.
Way back when I started work the policy was a (minimum) 15 min break every 2h30 of driving (it wasn't a driving job as such, just for occasional business trips). That seemed like a very sensible and proportionate plan and I've kept to that basic structure since. So eg in a 4-5h drive I'd certainly have a brief stop in the middle.
Anyway – searched on Autotrader for any EV ordered by price, and you can get a Mitsubishi i-Miev starting at about three grand. 60 ish mile range and very clearly a city car, but at that price it’s actually pretty
interestingrusty .
As you'd expect from a 14 year old car
Like you my interest was piqued so i checked the MOT history and its got tin worm pretty much all over between the serious defects (seat belt mounts) and the advisories - sub frames , inner sills and suspension mounts.
May impact its safety rating somewhat.
Makes it a fairly expensive £1000 car.
Heathrow superchargers opening up to non-Teslas is good news!