Despite the other disadvantages to multinationals setting up in the UK ( as detailed above) there were also advantages. Unfettered access into the EU without paying EU level wages and taxes and without having to deal with EU level worker protections. These made sense for companies to invest in the UK. But once you lose the access to the EU then obviously the balance tips.

Even on this very thread we’ve got apologists going “well, it’s probably not just brexit…” Which may be true, but if it’s a factor then we should be taking that seriously rather than hand-waving it, should we not?

I’m not an apologist at all. We’ve got various systemic problems in the UK which may have been more important, less important than brexit in this going to Germany. Probably doesn’t matter which is more important, as each may have been enough on their own.

We’re not in a position to thrive on the world stage outside the EU, we need all the help we can get. Brexit will not help our systemic problems, it will make them worse, and add a whole load of others. And there aren’t anywhere near enough upsides to offset them

I laid off 354 IT Project Team contractors the day after the Brexit vote. Of that lot, a lot went to Europe and a load went to Asia. I’ve heard of many more contractors being given the boot because of lack of investment by companies due to Brexit, yes I’m in the FS Industry and it’s been decimated by the uncertainty and the Torys stupidity and retarded views. They’re just bucking the trend of cohesive-working together for a common good and pursuing a closed shop of poorly paid UK employees on the basis of selling cheap labour off to those that want to exploit the vast UK skills base. No-one will invest here anymore, it’s all going into Europe & Asia, I’ve shifted 5 teams work offshore where the skills and labour are both available and keen, so thats about 700 jobs in 18mths..

But thats fine innit, because those nasty Bankers earning all that money and driving around in Ferrari’s…

Erm, nope. These are folks doing routine transformation and event management, y’know just like some of you lot on here.

I’m glad that Musk has decided a decent solid trading country with ability for expansion and inclusive working with skilled keen workforce is available to him. I’m personally not a huge fan of his, but he’s sure made the right decision in this instance..

And meanwhile the UK will be run down to the knuckle and you’ll all sit back and blame someone else for your own misery.

Pathetic.

Our IT company moved all non uk language support to the EU (remaining country) and development work investment, the rest of the English speaking support is transferring to India.
We were the EU Headquarters – it will be a small satellite sales office in the near future.
Additionally when the wrexit result came in we could no longer recruit language speakers as all the applicants dried up, something we had been reliably doing for 15 years.
So basically its over and we are looking for a much smaller office instead of the more than one office we occupied (mothballed now)

Philips, Siemens, GE all have substantial electrical and thermal expertise in Germany. It’s also easier to hire European talent in Germany as wages are substantially higher than in the UK.

This severe recruitment crisis meant that 69,000 to 186,000 engineering workers left the UK each year since 2016 to be replaced with only 46,000 engineering students and apprenticeships.

Surely the large numbers leaving created the recruitment crisis, not the other way round? If they left, why did they leave? If there was a shortage of them, they should have been in high demand and therefore In a strong position to bargain for higher wages and perks? Or is it a case of UK employers not being willing to fork out for talent?

Choice between a country that has pursued deliberate policies of wage control and export driven economy, or a place whose economic plan since the 80s was to invite lots of very rich people to park their money here. Hmmmmm. Tough one.

If you can’t get key staff, then you move operations to where you can, moving lots more jobs in the process.

This is what people don’t get, if you keep key people out (or just make it an absolutely ballache to get them in) it doesn’t just mean that job is lost, it makes this the wrong country to operate in, and so why site here and employ anything beyond the minimum for this newly cut off territory? When the state controls migration with a heavy hand, it stifles industry and costs jobs.

**** business!
As some would say.

I know of an accountant who refused to use a PC and stuck to paper, he was made redundant.

Yeah, I’ve known a few of those Intentional Luddites over the years. Eg, one woman working in Finance, wanting help with Excel, commenting “I don’t know anything about this computer shit.”

1) Thanks for dismissing my entire career as “shit.”

2) You’re in Accounts, this is Excel, it is literally your job to know this “shit.” I use Excel like twice a year, if I can work out how to do what you’re wanting to do by looking at the menus for the options you need, why can’t you? It’s like a carpenter complaining that they don’t understand how hammers work FFS.

We’ve got various systemic problems in the UK which may have been more important, less important than brexit in this going to Germany.

I don’t disagree, and apologies if I misunderstood before, it was the apparent glossing-over of the fact that brexit might have anything to do with it at all that I was complaining about.

If there was a shortage of them, they should have been in high demand and therefore In a strong position to bargain for higher wages and perks? Or is it a case of UK employers not being willing to fork out for talent?

The exchange rate collapse hasn’t helped. 3-4 years ago, my salary was almost the the equivalent of a German Engineers salary with the £/euro exchange rate at 1.4+. Now, with the exchange rate at 1.15, I’ve effectively taken a 20+% salary reduction. In addition, their wages have increased at a rate of 4-5%, the UK wage hasn’t. This meant that a lot of UK talent has moved France and Germany. The former has better condition, the latter better wages. in both cases they’re better than the UK. It’s a similar story for the US.

In addition, many established employers have pay scale bounds which they’re not allowed to cross, this means that say a systems engineer in the UK will enter a payscale that has bounds of £35-50k. In Germany, those bounds might be 65-95Keuro for the same job in the same company…where would you chose to work?

This obviously means that UK labour is cheap to the continent, but it doesn’t encourage highly skilled people to come and work here for less money.

It’s like a carpenter complaining that they don’t understand how hammers work FFS.

Carpenters rarely use hammers these days, you Luddite!

It’s not just Berlin, I know top talent (brain the size of a planet people) who’ve gone to Amsterdam… all sorts of brain powered industries are making that their favoured site for the eggheads. Better quality of life, better pay now the £ has dropped, etc. Oh, and being born outside the UK… they went where they are acknowledged as helping rather being blamed by those running the country.

where would you chose to work?

That was kind of my point. It wasn’t a recruitment crisis that caused the shortage, it was the shortage that caused the recruitment crisis. And the shortage was caused by….employers who had policies held over from the feudal serf days, not one that acknowledged the reality of competing for talent.
Although VMware doesn’t pay excessively well, and no one gets more than minimum holiday allowance, no matter how senior you are when you join and they don’t have a lot of problems.

A German view on electric cars

^that’s a great video thanks for sharing.

Go Norway.

There are already plenty of German made electric only cars on the roads around here. If they are behind Norway, what are we?!?

factory-farmed lukewarm sausage roll at a boot-sale, with a styrofoam cup of tea in rainy Rhyl’ at the minute

In the field opposite Sainsbury’s and Pizza Hut?

Don’t care that Tesla has went to Germany. Didn’t even know they were building a European factory.