Will I have to also 2 things, one being that was very hard to watch and two how brave the last gentleman was.

Good night to you too Sir.

The hardest thing I have ever watched on tv. First time I have cried in a long time.

That exactly the same as I felt. ?

bloomin good program. Everyone should be made to watch things like this to make them think about the gift of life and the gift of choosing to die with dignity, rather than be made to drag on in suffering 😕

Everyone will have a different view but the taboo of talking about our mortality has to end whatever your moral stance.

absolutely agree that someone with a terrible killer should be able to decide how and why they want to go. didn’t see the prog. but there should be a choice.

A brave programme to make and much respect to all involved. Really reflected the importance of honesty, trust, love, and empathy for others – I was crying at the end. Surely a topic which we as a societyshould be brave enough to discuss openly?

Kev – good to see you this evening – must catch up for a ride soon. Maybe Sunday?

Moving, disturbing, awkward, courageous, revealing, affecting.

Which channel? Is it on Iplayer etc?

Would like to catch it.

Again, found it very hard to watch, but that it was a stunning piece.

I see it has been called ‘pro-suicide propaganda’….this I totally disagree with. I personally am pro-choice, but was left with an overwhelming feeling that both gentlemen had gone too early (because of legal inability for them to chose to die in the UK) and still had very much to give. It also made me think about how much people have an intrinsic value (i.e. being able to physically ‘do stuff’ is not a requirement for having a worth) and even when very ill, people still bring something to the world.

An incredibly moving piece of TV, and fantastic in its simplistic, none hyped approach to the subject which is some thing you do not often get these days on TV.

I thought all the people who took part in the programme were incredibly brave, especially the Wife and Mother left behind.

It did however for me bring home a reality which I had never thought about, the fact that at the time you have to take your own life, you actually still have to be (with in reason) quite fit and healthy in order to be of sound mind to make the decision yourself.

My wife deals with death, terminal ilness and dying everyday in her job and often comments how she would not want to go through such suffering that she sees many of her patients going through, however she was very moved by this programme.

It still hasnt changed my view though, if I ever get a terminal illness, I will still consider VE, however I had never really given it much consideration, that you still have to be relatively early in the illness to be able to self consent. Still I would rather die a little sooner, than go through weeks, months, years of undignified pain and suffering as many people do with no quality of life.

As to the programme being pro VE. Well I initially thought it may well be, but it soon became quite apparent that it was neither one way or the other, just a very thought provoking programme. I even think that Terry changed his view point during the course of making the programme.

I don’t know who watched Newsnight afterwards but it’s telling that the arguments from the people against assisted dying are exactly the same as the anti-abortionists (vulnerable people forced into it, loss of a life is wrong, things often look better later etc). I’d love to see the statistics for the people forced into it in all the places in Europe that permit this as I bet it’s not the massive problem the no-campaigners suggest. Right now, the only thing the UK law means is that people with some savings can go down this route but not people without them, and again only with a little risk to their loved ones.

In any case, it was a very moving documentary and hopefully one that stimulates the discussion.

i thought whilst it was clear terry pratchett was pro choice the documentary was faiirrrllly unbiassed.

It was interesting the fact many people sign up and then never go back because they know they have the choice. I think that was one of the most telling parts of the documentary.

An amazing documentary, powerful, well made and finally a challenge to the taboo.

The disabled campaigner, against VE, mentioned that we haven’t talked about the risks to the more vulnerable in society at all – I reckon that’s because no-one has talked about it at all. Hopefully this will have blown it out of the water and it can now be talked about reasonably.

@littlebunnygirl You say: “(i.e. being able to physically ‘do stuff’ is not a requirement for having a worth) and even when very ill, people still bring something to the world”

This is the core issue. Who gets to decide that? Only the person in question can surely decide… as long as they are of sound mind, of course.

Interesting parallel with the pro-life lobby too.

Still not sure what I made of it, to be honest. I’ve always felt certain that if faced with having to become a burden on my family or going through a slow painful deterioration, then If given the opportunity I would choose assisted suicide as a positive option. Having watched last nights programme, I’m left feeling unsure that the Dignitas method was that option. I felt the house used for the procedure was cold and impersonal, and the fact that the Dignitas ‘escort’ remained with the couple throughout, rather than allowing them time alone, left me feeling uncomfortable. As others on here have already stated, the fact that these people are having to make this choice earlier than they perhaps should is also pitiful. Yes, there has to be an answer for people who want to make this choice, but for me, I’m not sure this is that answer.

@littlebunnygirl You say: “(i.e. being able to physically ‘do stuff’ is not a requirement for having a worth) and even when very ill, people still bring something to the world”

This is the core issue. Who gets to decide that? Only the person in question can surely decide… as long as they are of sound mind, of course.

Interesting parallel with the pro-life lobby too.

Abosolutely – only the person can decide, and, like I say, I am very much pro-choice VE. It was more a statement than an argument against VE. However, I find it sad to think that people are going earlier than they wish because of the need to travel and the increasing risk that they may one day be deemed unsuitable to give their own consent.

Disagree with making parallels to abortion however. Abortion involves terminating the life of another (essentially killing someone/something/a bunch of cells).

one of the best programmes i have ever senon tv, i am a ifrm believer we ned this in the U.K,.

i lost my father after a long hard battle with cancer 5 years ago, i know deep down that if he had had this option there is noway he would have put himself and the family through those horrible last few weeks when he was at home.

it was interesting when they showed the case files, and he said the white files are the people that have had the ‘green light’ but 70% of them will never ring back…

The whole spectre of euthanasia and disabled is a complete canard raised by people philosophically against any form of assisted dying.

All the forms discussed require active informed consent. This is all the safeguard we need.

Having worked with the dying and having seen this sort of situation in my own family I have very strong views on this and I will do my damndest to make sure me and my loved ones die at a time and place of our choosing pain-free and with dignity surrounded by our loved ones.

My grandfather wanted to die. He was disabled with a series of unpleasant but not life threatening diseases, his wife had died a few years earlier, he was dependent on my mother which he hated. His life was over but his body would not die. he was of sound mind.

He took a large overdose of painkillers but did not die. As always with suicide attempts that end in hospital he was assessed by a consultant psychiatrist who said he was perfectly sane and had a rational desire to die.

He had his painkillers reduced to stop him trying again making him even more miserable. As soon as the GP gave him a script for strong painkillers again he took the lot. It took him a fortnight to die in hospital in a miserable stressful blur. At one point he said to my mother “all I wanted to do was to go to sleep and not wake up” he eventually died on his own in the night.

This mans protracted miserable death still rankles with me and for that reason amongst others I am very much of the opinion that people should be able to die at a time of their choosing with dignity surrounded by their loved ones.

I am also pro-choice but found the process as it worked in Dignitas very cold and impersonal. It looked just like a pre-fab on an industrial estate. Also, the chap’s wife didn’t look too convinced to me. Nor did the chap in the wheelchair.

My only worry on this is how we treat the elderly in this country. Far too many people pack their parents off to nursing homes at the earliest opportunity. I know that my sister and I have agreed that until we absolutely cannot manage to look after our mum because of medication or whatnot, we will share the burden of seeing her through her final years. After all, we both gave her more than enough sleepless nights when we were young and stupid.

However, my mum, at 75 and still complis mentus, thankfully, already talks of “being a burden” on us, and saving for the day she has to go into a nursing home, and that when she goes it needs to be nice and fast, etc etc. The elderly already feel like a burden, and I worry that assisted suicide (or whatever term we choose to call it) would be the thin end of a wedge where the elderly, already marginalised, begin to feel that rather than being a hassle, they just take a pill or a glass of something and go quietly.

The right to rage against the dying of the light is important.

TJ – My grandfather had a similar, albeit shorter, death. 6 or 7 weeks of long, drawn out death in a hospital room which was the worst thing I’ve ever been party to. In the end when finally the doctors were prepared to admit there was no chance he’d survive, they turned up his morphine and cut off fluids which ended his suffering but dragged out his “life” for another few days before his body shut down. If he’d had the choice earlier (he’d said several times in the preceding weeks that he wanted to die), he’d have been saved a protracted, extremely painful death.

Disagree with making parallels to abortion however. Abortion involves terminating the life of another

The arguments are the same though and the core is that the people espousing the “anti” line are totally set in their beliefs and will not permit people the CHOICE to decide. The typical strawman is that they’re opposing sides of the argument but that would require the pro-choice lobby to be mandating compulsory abortions/euthanasia in certain situations. The only side with the absolutist approach is the anti-choice side which is why I think there’s a valid parallel.

People have the right to a choice.

deadlydarcy – Member

The right to rage against the dying of the light is important.

Indeed. I agree withthat very strongly and although I have very strong personal views we must never lose sight of it being the person involved free choice

Having said that I have never seen anyone who felt railroaded into dying and I have seen old ladies deliberately starve themselves to death as their only way out.

I am also pro-choice but found the process as it worked in Dignitas very cold and impersonal. It looked just like a pre-fab on an industrial estate

It was a pre-fab in an industrial estate and they explained why. The Swiss government has effectively told them the only place they can operate is from industrial estates.

Having said that I have never seen anyone who felt railroaded into dying and I have seen old ladies deliberately starve themselves to death as their only way out.

No, nor have I. And, believe me, I am pro-choice. Maybe I’m just worrying unduly…I’m just keeping an open mind (and being cynical about human nature).

It was a pre-fab in an industrial estate and they explained why.

Ah right, fair enough…I missed that. Point taken.

dd – there are people who kill themselves because they think it’s for the best because they’re a burden or similar. This won’t add to that and perhaps with assisted dying, the checks beforehand might actually help identify those people and prevent it.

DD – cynical scepticism is healthy in this sort of debate IMO

It is a shame there aren’t better procedures in place to support this kind of thing.

A colleague passed away recently after a nasty accident (she was left brain dead).

She was essentially taken to a hospice and left to starve to death – it took 8 weeks. That was the ‘humane’ choice offered by the surgeon treating her.

Her family had to watch the physical delay whilst dealing with the fact she was mentally gone.

This is where the individuals choice has nothing to do with it (unless pre-expressed in a living will). The surgeon allowed her to die, but would not assist her on her way.

And – all of this was in Switzerland…..

It was a good TV show but I felt sorry for the couple at the end. Perhaps if cameras had not been there they might have had a more personal good-bye.

Perhaps if cameras had not been there they might have had a more personal good-bye.

On reflection, I think I agree with this. I think that his wife/partner essentially felt very self-conscious and was keeping a stiff upper lip. Pratchett seemed more upset than anyone. 😐

I wish I was strong enough to watch it. After reliving my own Dad’s passing via that Human body program a few weeks ago, I can’t bring myself to watch this stuff it upsets me too much.
I do however agree that people should have the right to not suffer. Watching someone you love in excrutiating agony with no hope is a horrible thing to witness and deal with over a pro-longed period of time. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
For the actual person suffering it has got to be psychological torture, as you know what is coming and the pain will only get worse but don’t know when it will occur.

unfortunately i didn’t see the program.after witnessing my grandmother dying of ovarian cancer when i was 11 😥 .also visiting my grandfather in hospital after he had his final stroke (was basically a vegetable in the bed for the final week until his death :cry:.i am definitely pro choice.

The arguments are the same though and the core is that the people espousing the “anti” line are totally set in their beliefs and will not permit people the CHOICE to decide. The typical strawman is that they’re opposing sides of the argument but that would require the pro-choice lobby to be mandating compulsory abortions/euthanasia in certain situations. The only side with the absolutist approach is the anti-choice side which is why I think there’s a valid parallel.

People have the right to a choice.

The difference with the abortion issue is that the unborn person does not get any right to choose. This is why many anti-abortionists do not agree with abortion under any circumstances and do not accept the woman’s argument that it is any more ‘her right’ to kill her child than it is the child’s right to life.

VE is a case of one person deciding to terminate their own life. Abortion is one person deciding to terminate the life of another and not giving that ‘other’ any choice in the matter. In fact, I feel drawing any parallels with VE and abortion risks muddying the issues surrounding VE.

Giving an all encompassing comment about how those “espousing the ‘anti’ line are totally set in their beliefs and will not permit the people the CHOICE to decide” strikes of just as much intolerance on your part not to listen to those who have genuine concerns for the lives they feel the need to speak up for.

As time progresses, and I read more into both issues, I would say I am becoming more pro-choice VE and more anti-abortion.