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Contador will be a very unpopular winner in Paris, that one incident will define the whole Tour.
It's bad form to attack when the Yellow Jersey has a problem. Fair play if they're suffering and unable to match you, you put the boot in. But for a mechanical or (as with Lance/Ullrich a few years ago) a fall, you wait, make sure your opponent is OK, then go back to attacking.
Hats off to Thomas Voeckler for a great stage win though. Zero respect to Contador or that cheating bastard Vinokourov.
Really don't get the booing or the unpopular Contador... Its a bloody race not a sit about and wait (for people misfortunes) Didn't they wait for him in the early stages of the tour too after a crash which is fair play!
Was it Wiggins in the TT had his gears jam up... they didn't stop the TT and say right lets start again...
Fair play Contador for racing... at least makes it interesting and hopefully down to the wire 🙂
But for a mechanical or (as with Lance/Ullrich a few years ago) a fall, you wait, make sure your opponent is OK, then go back to attacking.
I rather think that Bertie was looking over his shoulder to see if Schleck was back on his bike before turning on the power. He didn't really kick on until he saw that the Luxemburger was back up and running, IMO.
If you want to take the Yellow Jersey from the leader of the race you should prove you are a strong, fitter, faster rider than him in a fair physical fight. The TdF isn't about technology, it is who is the fastest rider.
Boardman needs to clear up the chain guard accusation tomorrow.
Contador was between a rock and a hard place. He couldn't let Sanchez and Menchov get away, they're too close on GC.
Its the same reason as when the previous winner of the tour doesn't pull out simply because he has no chance of winning, it devalues the victory of the eventual winner.
If someone is good enough to win then they should do it by fair means not because the bike broke. Different to other sports as its mainly the rider that is important here not the bike.
Didn't they wait for him in the early stages of the tour too after a crash which is fair play!
On the Spa stage, lots of riders crashed and they all waited for each other as no one wanted to take advantage. Simple really.
As I said earlier Captain, he did wait. He powered past, slowed down and looked back from the corner, then went for it.
Contador - he's a dirty infested arse... not the sort of chap we want as a champion.
[i]Contador was between a rock and a hard place. He couldn't let Sanchez and Menchov get away, they're too close on GC.[/i]
So they should all have sat up. Once again, the Armstrong musette incident gives precedent - Mayo and Ullrich both waited.
I wasn't madly impressed with Schleck just sitting on Contador's wheel the day before, despite Contador repeatedly attacking and trying to pull away. OK, so perhaps Schleck had the measure of him that day, but why didn't he do something then? All I saw today was Schleck trying something, Contador seeming equal to it, then Contador (finally) getting a break he maybe felt justified to take advantage of.
After all, as soon as he was off Contador's wheel, Schleck lost more time, no?
BTW, you should check the comments on the ITV4 forum, some guy trying to blame Schleck for using post-1970 technology (would fit in here) and some fairly anguished "Contador has ruined the TDF for me" type comments...
2 words.. chain guard...
and he would still be in yellow? simple 🙂
These chain guards, what are they? Like a chain device I assume rather than the oldschool plastic things that keep ones trolleys free from oil?
from the way he put the chain back on, it looked like it had gone over the top of the big ring... chain guard would have done **** all to stop that.
Dave
[i]from the way he put the chain back on[/i]
You mean the cack handed way he stopped, leaned down while still astride the bike and attempted to fix it, got back on, realised he'd not fixed it and finally jumped off waving his hands around.
If he'd have known what to do there he'd have lost about 15 seconds max, as it was he lost nearly 40.
But Contador is still an arse for attacking like that.
yeah, he did make a dogs breakfast of it, but he was picking up the chain from where it was dangling over the crank arm, rather than lifting it off the bb shell.
Dave
crazylegs - Schleck lost most of the time on the descent (think he was 15 secs down on top of mounntain) - he's not the best descender by his own admissions, and Contador had Sanchez going full tilt to try and get some time on Menchov and dragged him into yellow.
I know, I watched it. He was losing about 1 second per km and on a 21km descent...
Initially though he was about 35 seconds behind Contador, he pulled it back to about 15 seconds at the summit then it gradually went out again on the descent.
Very poor form by Contador-it's not in keeping with the TdF. Hope he gets his arse kicked
Why is it 'not in keeping' with the TDF? Considering the well-publicised drug scandals over the Tour's history, is failing to slow down sufficiently to placate Contador's haters really that big a crime? Really? So you can elbow and headbut soemone in a sprint, but you can't keep pedalling at the same rate if somone's chain has fallen off, even if you might not be aware of that?
What's the point of this sport again?
I'm torn on this. If Contador wins on the back of that incident alone it will be a pity. But you make your own luck to some extent, don't you? It's hard to see how Schleck screws up his gears, and he does make an appalling hash of getting running again.
I admired the flair of his initial acceleration though, and the guts he showed when he was chasing was fantastic. I'd love to see him fight back.
As others have said, a very good day for Voeckler, which is always lovely to see. Together with Riblon's rather stylish win yesterday it really cheered me up. I like it when the French win. 🙂
[url= http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=5612&src=froogle ]Chain watcher[/url]
It sits on the seat tube and goes up close to the inner chain ring. If the chain tries to fall off then it stops it going down the gap.
Not sure how you fit one to a funky shaped carbon bike though...
I find it a bit sad that such a great sport is tarnished by drugs and cheating. Not that it's the only sport where cheating is prevalent.
On the positive side, the TDF is a wonderful spectacle, and a fantastic advert for France as a place to visit. I love the way little towns and villages make so much effort with flower displays and sculptures etc, to put on a show for the visiting Tour. It really is a beautiful thing to watch.
Apparently Schleck and Contador went on holiday together earlier this year / last year.
Wonder if they'll be going for a holiday again in the near future?
As said by me and others, the chain went off the big ring to the OUTSIDE. Therefore the chain watcher would do NOTHING! He did make a dog's dinner of getting it back on. But then have any of us on here ever been in that situation?
The only comment I will add to what I said earlier about AC is this. An extract from an interview with AC post race was that he was in front of Schleck and attacking so he did not know straight away what had happened. He also states that he was attacking Schleck. Now I have just watched it again. It is blatantly obvious that AS has attacked and that AC is riding to get back up to him. How it looks to me he is very slowly getting back to AS when the chain comes off. At that point AC is 1 if not 2 bike lengths behind AS. So sorry Alberto but I don't believe you. Admittedly he did have to consider Sanchez and possibly to a greater degree Menchov (think TT). However when he got to them he could have asked them to soft pedal so as not to attack the Mailot Jaune who was in difficulty. Didn't have to wait for him to catch up. They could have agreed to freewheel/soft pedal for 10 seconds then gone on. They would probably still have gained time but at least done so with some degree of perceived honour.
Oh well, it's done now.
C'mon Andy you can do it!
It looked to me that most of Contador's gains were the result of who he was descending with. Four or five guys sharing spells at the front will fly down. Schleck only had one other guy with him who looked spent and Vino' tagging along at the back.
1961Bikie - Member
As said by me and others, the chain went off the big ring to the OUTSIDE. Therefore the chain watcher would do NOTHING!
And [url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/saxo-banks-special-machines-for-cancellara-and-the-schleck-brothers/129170 ]this[/url] suggests he had one.
Do pro teams employ yts mechanics who cant set limit screws these days?
In years to come Contador, if he wins, will be remembered for winning the tour and this detail largely forgotten - maybe that's the way he sees it? Hopefully the booing has had an effect though.
Captjon - how does the chain falling to the outside suggest he had a chainwatcher on? Chainwatchers are designed to prevent the chain from falling to the inside/BB and possibly jamming.
Does AS run Rotor-Q oval rings? My concern with these is that at the lowest point of the ring there is a significant gap between the ring and mech cage giving the possibility for the chain to unship to the outside.
The picture in the link suggests Saxo Bank use them on their bikes. Is it conclusive the chain came off the outside?
xcstu - Member2 words.. chain guard...
and he would still be in yellow? simple
[url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/saxo-banks-special-machines-for-cancellara-and-the-schleck-brothers/129170 ]Saxo fit chain devices to all their bikes[/url].
[url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/pro-bike-alberto-contadors-astana-specialized-s-works-tarmac-sl3/131378 ]Contador doesn't run one[/url].
And I spooled through ITV's coverage of the TDF tonight and I'm pretty sure Schleck wasn't on the shifters when the chain jumped off. He looks like he moved his fingers from under the hoods to shift after the chain jumped, probably to sort it out. The side shots showed a rear mech under light tension (ie small rings front and back) that then flicked backwards further as the chain suddenly unloaded. Schleck's drive on the pedals as it locked lifted the back end up a good 6", as Contador would've seen as he was behind when it happened. In fact, Schleck was barely pedalling when it happened.
I bet there's a ton of footage on YouTube now. Go have a look.
Both are on Specialized Tarmacs with SRAM Red, so I couldn't blame fancy electronics, either. 🙂
Yes and should be won fairly because you are the better rider rather than because your opponent had an unlucky mechanical.
Poor behaviour from Contador clearly worried but in yellow now
I agree in principal but since when was the TdF everyman for himself. Its just as much about the best team and the tactics they use as it is the best rider.
Either way I hope Contador just stops before the line tomorrow and gives schelck the 20 seconds back, then in teh time trial blows him away, to shut everyone up.
[url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-makes-youtube-apology-to-schleck ]Contador offers apology for nature of his win over Schlek[/url]
Why is it 'not in keeping' with the TDF? Considering the well-publicised drug scandals over the Tour's history, is failing to slow down sufficiently to placate Contador's haters really that big a crime? Really? So you can elbow and headbut soemone in a sprint, but you can't keep pedalling at the same rate if somone's chain has fallen off, even if you might not be aware of that?
I think you fail to notice that the guy doing the headbutting was kicked off the race. Failing to notice is no defence as his team would have told him. You are clearly do not understand road racing if you fail to at least see the controversy in yesterdays stage regardless of your opinion on the matter.
You can't head butt in the tour, renshaw got kicked off (unfairly imo) but still you can't use it as an arguement!
AC should have just stayed with Sanchaz and Menchov and not attacked.
AS lost time on descent because nobody was working with him De Broek was knackered and Vino certainly was not going to help! 3 top flight racer a full tilt team trialing it to the finish it certainly going to be faster than 1 guy doing the work. He did well not to lose more time.
Will he attack today? Theres a long way to the finish that is the only thing. If not may well be a bit risky leaving it till thursday.
The chain catcher things on carbon bikes attach to the front mech. Doesn't work going off the big ring. From the videos his bike jacked up so either he fit a stone or something else went wrong. Probably those eliptical chainrings.
I imagine any of us would be a bit cack handed at putting a chain on. He's just been riding up a mountain on his limit after already done a couple of miles that day and a few the days before as well. I imagine he was feeling the pressure from being the leader in the biggest cycling event going. It's easy to flick a chain on under no pressure. But pressure changes everything.
The bike endo'd because the chain slipped not the other way around.
Schleck attacked, Contador followed. 's not Contador's fault Schleck fumbled his gear change...
Schleck didn't change gear... mechanical pure and simple which in TdF ettiquette means you don't attack. The question is whether AC realised and if he did, since Menchov and Sanchez were up the road, what he should have done.
The correct thing all round would have been for AC/Menchov/Sanchez to wait to AS to catch up.
Contador's changed his tune a bit from yesterday 🙂
Well done that man!
Even Riis wasn't that annoyed. bad riding skills brought on by pressure etc, look at the film, Andy was in top. Can't see Sanchez or Menchov stopping and then they would have been in yellow. well 1 of them.
In all the years I have always thought Ulrich a **** for waiting. How come none of you lot are moaning because no one waited for Armstrong when he puntured on the pave'? Same thing. Anyway Saxo have already pulled a dirty with Cancellara stalling everyone early on. Must admit to being an Andy fan but you can't go around blaming one rider coz another cocked up.
I think he should have waited (Contador doesn't need Schleck having a mechanical for him to win the TdF so pointless taking advantage of it). However it's a fair point that Andy's previous time advantage came after Contador was held up on the stage 3 crash. If Contador had have said that as his reason for attacking it would have at least been honest, for him to come out and say he didn't realise Schleck had a problem at first is just BS. As is saying he had to stay with Sanchez/Menchov - they only went for it after Contador had attacked.
A chain device wouldn't have helped given how the chain came off either, it is a bit unusual though (I was wondering to if he uses elliptical chain rings and if they had a part to play but I don't think he does). He also did a half decent job of sorting it quickly, the problem was as he went to start off again he back pedalled slightly which threw the chain again as it wasn't fully on.
Tough one this but I think peoples views are swayed by whos camp they're in i.e the STW concensus is it's gloves off in a sprint attack, but Pimms 'o' clock in the mountains.
Am I right in thinking that Schleck is only where he is because of the Stage 3 fiasco. Then there's the mechanical, if it was a mechanical some are saying he rode over something. Then there's the twins in orange, they couldn't be ignored.
We'll see today I guess. Schleck might be regreting playing silly buggers the other day.
Pesonally I'd like to see Contador drop Schleck like a sack of spuds and have a good minute on him by Sunday.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc
I reckoned the apology was reasonable. He put it down to a red-mist type event, which is understandable I suppose.
You mean the cack handed way he stopped, leaned down while still astride the bike and attempted to fix it, got back on, realised he'd not fixed it and finally jumped off waving his hands around.
If he'd have known what to do there he'd have lost about 15 seconds max, as it was he lost nearly 40.
I'm assuming you could've done better?
Right when I attacked Andy had a mechanical on the last climb
No, Andy had a mechanical, then he attacked.
Don't you think the more you watch the video the more it looks like Contador was closing the gap anyway?
. How come none of you lot are moaning because no one waited for Armstrong when he puntured on the pave'?
Because Armstrong wasn't in yellow, and it wasn't a decisive moment in the race?
My opinion of Contador dropped a bit today, seems pretty clear that Schleck was pretty much at a standstill when Contador shot past him so I don't buy that he didn't realise what was going on. Looks like Menchov reacted to that and then Contador was in an awkward spot. I'd have liked to see him wait though, if nothing else because it's disappointing we didn't get to see them going at it.
oldgit - yeah, I don't think AS was going to get away - AC had the measure I reckon but again, it seems to be pretty clear that AS was almost stopped dead when AC went past and since it's unlikely to be anything other than a mechanical, they (Menchov and Sanchez) should have held off - just as per when LA got caught up in that bag in 2003 and Ullrich et al all waited once they realised what had happened.
As someone mentioned earlier it would be nice for AC to give the time back to AS in some manor, if after that AC wins he will be remembered as a gracious winner and a good sportman, if AS was to win after that AC would still be remebered for the moment of fine sportsmanship which might pale AS's win a bit. If however nothing is done and AC wins he might just be in for a bit more booing at Paris and will be remembered badly if AS wins he will be touted as a god and AC the villan forever more... Personally I would like to see AS pick up the time lost on AC and go on to win the tour or AC to give back the time gained and then win.
Iain
Just to confirm - Contador wasn't the Astana guy closest to Schleck when he lost his chain was he?
[img] 
[/img]
He's the guy behind the guy?
To be clear AS lost half the time on the due to the mechanical and the other half due to the AC, Menchov and Sanchez working as a team to put as much time in to AS in the descent. AS did a awesome job and minimizing the loss considering he was alomost working on his own. AC may not have seen his chain come off, but you can be sure his team knew and would have pass ono the info to AC straight away. I think AC's youtube apology shows his guilty conscience?
thebunk- right, so he probably wouldn't have actually ssen Schleck drop his chain, but I don't think he could have missed the fact that there was a mechanical as he went past.
The more I watched it the more it became clear that as Contador sprinted up the road, Vino who was leading the chase slowed with Shleck and was on his radio, presumeably telling the team what had happend to Shleck so Contador cannot really say he didnt know, unless the team didnt tell him. It was very clear that Vino slowed and Contador didnt. And thats hard for me to say as I ****in hate Vino, but he seemed to have done the "right" thing. Would be fascinating to hear if Contador knew what was going on or if the team with held the info.
Of course the other thing is that we're all saying "if he screwed up a gear change it's rider error and okay to take advantage of, but if it's a mechanical then he should have waited", closely followed by "having rewound the tape several times, I'm now certain Schleck didn't change gear" - without the benefit of a rewind button, how is Contador supposed to know what caused Schleck's problem. At the end of the day, he's going to have a few seconds to make a snap decision about whether it's appropriate to stick the boot in or not, at a critical point in the world's biggest road race.
Much as though I'm not convinced by his Puerta related explanations (any more than Schleck's £5,000 training plan), I'd find it hard to justify villifying the guy on the basis of his decision to go on without Schleck.