noting that my aluminium hardtail will often still be holding some water in the frame 3 days after washing it, if i buy a steel frame will it just fill up with rust? anyone have any experience?
im tempted to just go for a Ti frame but its obviously significantly more expensive.

front runner at the moment is a Stanton Switch9er

The chances are a steel hardtail will outlive a titanium one.

Ride on.

I’ve seen a couple of decent steel frames rust through but they were pretty much coming to the end of their natural life anyway.

Waxoyl can help.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Eventually but most alloy and titanium frames have cracked long before some steel frames have structural rust. Decent bike frame steels like cromoly are fairly rust resistant and good frames have rust protection treatments as well as paint.

There’s loads of ancient steel bikes out there that are still in use.

They do rust, some have internal coatings to slow this down. It will go eventually but your alu frame will fatigue eventually, especially if it’s left full of water with salt off the road in it and a ti frame might crack, cos they’re reputadely a bit cracky

My computer / tourer is from ~ 1995. Gets no love. Ridden on wet gravel bike paths and sand mud. It will rust through eventually.

eventually… in about 2069 or something

my 1989 bike has nothing more than surface rust on patches where the paint was knackered, eg due to the chain jamming between the chainrings and frame

there are 1940’s bikes out there that have sat to rot for best part of a century, and the only thing really wrong with the frames is the paintwork and decals. sure the BB, cranks and wheels will be beyond repair, but the frames more than serviceable.

and afaik, stuff like 853 used on modern bikes is far more corrosion resistant than ye olde steel.

Some of the newer posh ones are galvanised I believe.

My Dialled is generally abused and that shows little sign of rust.

On a similar theme, I snapped my 853 Gusset cranks (at a weld area) I think due to rust. I did my best to Waxoil them apparently to no avail.

On a similar theme, I snapped my 853 Gusset cranks (at a weld area) I think due to rust.

An ineffective weld is more likely tbh.

@Nobeerinthefridge you could be right

Had my Prince Albert for about 12 years, even the exposed steel where feet have rubbed or baby seat was attached are rust free. It gets ridden loads with little cleaning/fettling so don’t worry, it’ll be right.

I have a 1060s ish road bike. Still fine.

1980s Dawes galaxy no visible rust 1 year old Vagabond rusting on the top tube.

I have a 1060s ish road bike. Still fine.

I think I saw it on the Bayeux tapestry😀

Reynolds 921 / 953 won’t!

Nice tubing and you’ll be fine. I chipped a load of paint off my 2004 Kona Explosif when it was brand new (True Temper Platinum OX) and the bare metal did not rust (except a couple of occasions when it got covered in road salt but was only surface rust). Its now 16 years old and has loads and loads of paint missing and only ever gets very light surface rust when not ridden for ages.

I reckon it’s the inside of the tubes (that you can’t see) that you need to worry about.

Steel MTB frames are not galvanised. It adds a chunk of weight and the high temperatures involved would potentially trash any fancy alloy / heat treated steel. It also needs fairly large fill / drain holes in every little tube.

Good manufacturers use phosphate dip coatings prior to powder coat / paint – iron, zinc or manganese phosphate (manganese is best but I’ve never found anywhere that will do it for one-offs).

I’ve repaired a few rusted through frames – it tends to happen from inside out but rarely on the main tubes (a drain hole in the bb is a good idea but more to save the bb). It tends to be things like seatstay bridge tubes collecting water and rusting through the stays where you can’t see them, collecting in the underside of chainstays etc. Regardless it is usually 15 yrs for anything to rust (not very)seriously and Stanton have a lifetime warranty.

If you’re really worried then squirt in some Boeshield, Framesaver, linseed oil etc.

The last two steelies I’ve had have both been coated with some kind of anti corrosion coating. I’ve heard it referred to as ‘black oxide’ but I don’t know what it is. The coating has been present internally and externally (paint chips shows it up externally).

If you’re worried pop a tin’s worth of this into the tubes. Do it on a warm day (or inside but its a bit pungent) and give the frame a good spin about to coat everything.

My early 90’s Kona is still fine, made of Tange Prestige Ultimate steel tubing. 26 years old this year and still ridden (although more on an occasional basis nowadays).
Recently restored it and there was zero sign of rust before it was sandblasted.

Anything steel is going to rust if it’s left long enough, or not kept clean.

It’s important on a steel frame to hit it with a can of frame saver or linseed treat it before you use it; most boutique builders treat the inside of the frame before you get it, talk to whoever you’re ordering through about it, or hit it yourself with some frame saver before you use it if you’re concerned.

Modern stuff tends to run skinnier tubes, so clean the bike properly after a run out, don’t let water sit in the stays, I’ve seen frost freezing inside a chainstay split the stay open on a Kona a while ago, so when you’re cleaning, ensure the drains are free and rotate the bike a bit on the stand to get as much water out as you can.

Touch in paint when it gets damaged, or invisiframe it before that happens.

Beware of getting any damage repaired, especially on “nicer” frames, by someone who can “weld”.. anyone can mig a repair on steel, but if you put too much heat into it, or blow a hole, you’re undoing all the work of the frame builder who would have selected specially butted/treated tubes in certain alloys in whatever area of the bike.

sailor74
…if i buy a steel frame will it just fill up with rust? anyone have any experience?…

Hang on, I’ll just nip out and check if my 1932 Sunbeam, my 1935 Armstrong, my 1948 Rudge have dissolved in rusty puddles.

My 1950s bikes being more recent should be ok.

In short, no problem unless it’s a crap BSO made from mild steel. 🙂

They’ll all be really thick walled tubes compared to the stuff that gets used in todays higher end steel hardtails.

But yeah I see your view :), I’ve got a couple of old Raleighs that haven’t rusted through and are older than most bikes in circulation today, some I rescued from decades of abuse.

I have a 1060s ish road bike. Still fine.
I think I saw it on the Bayeux tapestry😀

Harold was wearing a helmet to satisfy the road safety brigade, but he should really have had goggles on!

Untreated steel tends to rust.

But if the frame is phosphate treated and painted inside and out then rust will not be a problem.

Painting techniques have changed over the years.
At approx. 6:30 in

Materials

Reynolds 953
“Corrosion resistance is similar to type 410 stainless steels. In normal use, brown staining of the surface does occur due to sweat, salty roads, and so on, if not protected/painted. The staining can be removed with “scotch-brite” or an equivalent, and trials have shown that this is a superficial stain that does not weaken the tubes.”

http://www.kvastainless.com/bicycles-frequently-asked-questions.html

I must be unlucky.

I lost my Orange P7 (2009) this weekend. It looks like rust has eaten its way through one of the chainstays (near the bridge). I got the frame second hand and did treat it to a waxoyl type treatment. It tended to get used in bad conditions, still surprised by the failure though.

I also lost a Kona Cinder Cone to rust 20+ years ago. It went through where the seat tube meets the bottom bracket.

https://fivelandbikes.com/what-we-do

Tech Notes

“Product Care

We recommend the use of either JP Weigle Frame Saver, CRC Protettivo per Nautica or a similar product with any steel frame. Frame Saver is a proven rust preventative that is applied to the inside of the tubes and eliminates the possibility of the frame rusting from the inside out. It is essential in areas with high humidity and/or a corrosive environment and highly recommended anywhere. Frame Saver is available at better bike shops everywhere.
It’s always a good idea to periodically inspect your frame inside and out for any damage or corrosion. Keeping your frame clean, especially around the cable stops and bottom bracket cable guide, will ensure that you spot any problem before it becomes serious. These areas can collect moisture and corrosives such as perspiration and sports drinks which can damage paint and if not corrected, eat into the metal.
In addition to keeping your frame clean, a coat of automotive wax applied regularly will reduce the possibility of damage from corrosion and ensure a long life for your frame. You should also periodically remove the seatpost from the frame and examine the inside of the seat tube for rust as well as lubricating the post with either a carbon paste (for carbon seatposts) or grease or oil for aluminum or steel seatposts. Lubricating the seatpost will ensure that it doesn’t gall with the seat tube becoming difficult if not impossible to remove safely. Periodic routine maintenance and inspection by an authorized Pegoretti dealer is advisable, especially if the frame has been involved in a crash or experienced potential damage.”

Funny you are looking at a Stanton. They withdrew offering a raw finish at one point as any dinks in the lacquer caused rust ‘spiders’ to appear – and I think they got grief for it from some customers. I believe they were totally superficial and I think the line was that any steel frame will get them, it’s just you only seem them on raw frame (could be wrong though).

You can see them in this Switchback Pinkbike Ad;
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2114975/

When HSLA steels are used in cars there are a number of coating types and processes used to prevent rusting.
https://automotive.arcelormittal.com/products/flat/HYTSS/HSLA

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3EErDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT191&lpg=PT191&dq=raleigh+bike+frame+phosphate&source=bl&ots=BcSi2guFrN&sig=ACfU3U3DTBFFrGEDUcBTsVcij8bkRdVAqQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiiqbieqqbnAhUimVwKHdB_BUMQ6AEwF3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=raleigh%20bike%20frame%20phosphate&f=false

The chances are a steel hardtail will outlive a titanium one.

Ride on.

This, plus the waxoyl suggestion above.

They do rust, but not hugely fast. Of the steel frames I’ve binned (of various ages/brands/levels of quality/weight), two have been crash damage, one I sold and it cracked a month later (admittedly at a location affected by water ingress and with a bit of internal pitting, but not enough to affect wall thickness, just to give stress concentrations for a crack to start), another I cracked on the chainstay in the same way, another got a crack on the downtube initiating from the shifter bosses.

Even if Ti did last longer, it’s not going to last longer enough to be economical, and by the time the steel frame breaks you’ll probably want a new bike anyway.

I’ve got a second hand steel frame of dubious origins- sick/ on one Dave that I bought second hand.

Is it worth treating it? Is 6 months old and has seen a few salty roads

im tempted to just go for a Ti frame but its obviously significantly more expensive.

It sounds like you might be looking for an excuse to buy Ti. In which case yes, steel rusts terribly, and really you have to spend the extra if you want to be sure your frame will last… 😉

Beyond that, Boeshield sprayed inside the tubes through water-drainage holes, and the frame turned and turned to get it to dribble along the tubes is a good plan

37 posts and no 853 sticker?

*sigh*

Couple of years ago I got my old commuter powdercoated, was terrified what would be lying in the bb / chainstay junction but it was actually pretty fresh looking inside for something that had been run into the ground for about 5 years of west of Scotland winters & I only really ever cleaned it by riding through puddles, was stored indoors though which might help a bit. I had a sram bb on it though – so combining that with the general neglect meant the bb was replaced frequently so that area always got a good clean out, any trapped moisture probably worked it’s way through the bb back out again…

I picked up this stuff (out of curiosity more than genuine fear of my bike disintegrating) cheap spray wax & bunged a load in the tubes before building it up again – comes out thin enough to stick a straw on the nozzle & blast it right into the tube junctions, dries quite hard but still flexible if that makes sense – only cost £3 so better than nothing as framesaver was about £20

Interesting. Since my last post up there about black oxide I’ve spend some time reading about the actual process.

It seems like there’s actually a room-temperature black oxide process that can be done at home.

This is achieved with an aqueous solution that in theory if you stop at the drain holes in the frames would provide more coverage with certainty than a spray application type waxoyl, which thickens up very quickly once the aerosol is evaporated and you’re never really quite sure you’ve got it everywhere you need it.