Ok, I visit the gym every weekday, swimming, spinning or weights and cycle one or both days at the weekend.

I have a very healthy diet, it may not meet iDave's strict criteria but then I don't need to lose weight, neither am I looking to gain weight.

What I'm looking for is a nutritional supplement to prevent atrophy and allow me to sustain my exercise regime. I'm assuming some sort of protein powder is what I'm looking for. Any recommendations?
Thanks.

No doubt there'll be hoards of people on in a minute saying you don't need anything, but i'd recommend True Whey from myprotein.co.uk

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/products/true_whey

And while you're at it, can you find something to prevent entropy?

This thread has the potential to get over 1000 posts, and will do nothing to keep TJ's blood pressure down.

The phrase "eat less, exercise more" might even crop up.

You are looking for something that will allow you to sustain the thing you have been doing for a while? Sounds like you might already have it cracked.

[img]http://canarypapers.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/snake-oil.jpg[/img]

I like TJ's post ^ ^

🙂

S

if you're not experiencing atrophy, do what you're doing now?

food works

if you're happy with your current level of fitness you can cut training volume by half and as long as you keep the intensity at current levels you'll stay as fit as you are now.

Money off code for http://www.myprotein.co.uk

MP200391

Works for me, not lost any weight over the course of the 10kg in 10 weeks challenge but have gone from a bit tubby to being pretty fit and can see my ribs for the first time since my knee op in 2008.

25g of protein with breckie
25g after riding home/going to the gym
25g before bed

Plus creatine (but only about 1/3 of the recomended dose) as I find it helps with energy levels during excercise, especialy when you get towards the end of the third week before a week off.

Not sure what TJ's point is, everyone from the aincient greeks onwards knew that protein was the key to muscle growth and strength. Its just that I'd get bored eating 8oz steaks 3 times a day!

My point is you don't need the extra protein if you have a reasonable diet – any protein above the amount you need is wasted and most of us eat far more protein than we need.

if you're not experiencing atrophy

no, he meant he wanted to win a trophy for being dead buff!

any protein above the amount you need is wasted

not exactly 'wasted' but just burnt up for fuel!

All you will ever need…

the aincient greeks onwards knew that protein was the key to muscle growth and strength

growth yes, strength no. Muscle is made out of protein, but once it's growed you already have it.

unless you want to look like this:

A ballanced/good diet is all well and good, but I'm trying to meet a goal of increacing my power/weight ratio so I can climb a bit faster. So my diet consists of…….

Breakfast: museli and plain yogurt (generous helping)
Lunch: sallad (with some pasta/cous cous) or soup and bread.
Dinner: full tin of soup, 2 small buns, big hunk of cheese, hunk of pate and handfull of olives. OK its not exacly fat free, but its my attempt at a healthy-ish treat for myself. Either that or a moderately healthy dinner (might not make it tot he weight watchers cook book, but I cookeverything from scratch so know whats in it).

Snacking on homemade flapjack (almost no added sugar or fat, just 1lb oats, 0.5lb dried fruit and an egg, and enough oil to stop it sticking).

"eat less, exercise more"

Sounds like some of you are almost advising the opposite.

How do you know if you're experiencing atrophy, I know I've started waking up starving, sometimes in the middle of the night and that I'm having to space my weight training sessions further apart.

thisisnotaspoon, I'd say I eat quite a bit more than that.

I don't want to look like that, targets (for next June);

*75kg-78kg
*300W at 150bpm heart rate (measured over 10 minutes after a 15 minute warmup)
*Be able to ride in the fast group of the local roadie club and be comfortable rather than killing myself.

It's working though, I'm not hungry (even after work, I could probably skip meals and not notice but thats not healthy so I don't). My leg muscles have grown considerably, I've lost a fair ammount of fat and I look and feel healthy.

Lunch is sometimes a proper meal if theres something tempting in the canteen, and dinner is a propper dinner 3-4 times a week so I probably get 7 big meals a week, just that some days what I'd normaly think of as a lunch is my evening meal and vice versa.

"eat less, exercise more"

Sounds like some of you are almost advising the opposite.

I was being ironic. I think you might achieve what you want by taking a day off now and then.

But I know nothing. But at least I know I know nothing.

no, he meant he wanted to win a trophy for being dead buff!

Damn…..that was actually amusing….curse you sfb!

thisisnotaspoon – not knocking anything that you're doing, and thanks for the code.

Think my issue is that I've been using my own fat stores to make up the calorie defecit that my diet / exercise regime has caused. I'm close to the point where there isn't much left in the store and have come to the conclusion that it is better to make up for the calorie defecit with protein rather than carbs. Is this sensible?

I'm close to the point where there isn't much left in the store and have come to the conclusion that it is better to make up for the calorie defecit with protein rather than carbs. Is this sensible?

No.

Your body uses carbs and fat for energy, and protein to fix itself. Eat carbs for exercise.

*300W at 150bpm heart rate

I wouldn't use power vs heart rate for a peformance measure. I'd use power for a given time. Like 300W for 30 mins as the target, or 200W for 3 hours or whatever. Your heart rates change depending on all sorts of things.

Kind of, you need to keep an eye on your overall calorie intake, so if you eat 300+caloiies of whey protein (most packets will tell you to eat almost double that! But then they make their money selling you the next packet don't they).

Bodybuilders, and to a lesser extent all athletes work on a bulk and cut principal. Bodybuilders eat a caliroe surplous (with lots of protein) and do lots of weights for a period of time, anywhere between a week and several years, this builds up muscle ('bulk'). They then have to spend an equal ammount of time doing less weights, more cardio and eating a calorie deficit to 'cut' the fat off.

Cyclists do the same proces through the winter, you ride long rides to build up endurance, then diet in the spring to get the improved power/weight ratio you were after.

Thats why I'm not loosing weight, I'm not really trying to, just building up the muscle first then I'll diet properly at the end of the summer, before doing a lot of training over the winter, then one last diet in the spring to get to where I want to be.

I know I've started waking up starving

that's not atrophy, that's hunger! Though oddly, protein is supposed to surpress appetite more than other food groups…

In an air conditioned (humidity and temp taken care of) gym, after a pre defined warmup, and I'll probably try and slot it into my monthly routine so that I'm as knackered/fresh each time. I know its not a perfect experiment, but as long as I have the endurance to back it up from doing long rides and don't focus purely on 10 minute long excercises its as good an indicator/target as any.

Cyclists do the same proces through the winter, you ride long rides to build up endurance, then diet in the spring to get the improved power/weight ratio you were after.

I reckon that the dieting needs to be done over the winter WHILST you're doing your endurance rides. The endurance rides will be mostly fat burning so you can get away with a calorie intake deficit. When you start on speed, you might find it a lot harder to keep the calorie deficit – I know I do.

Cyclists do the same proces through the winter, you ride long rides to build up endurance, then diet in the spring to get the improved power/weight ratio you were after.

eeek, does that make me a rambler ??

You are most definitely a rambler, Simon.

I've always thought your posts were quite succint SFB.

OK its not a perfect example, cyclists wouldn't let their weight fluctuate quite as much.

But the principle is the same, its difficult to meat 2 targets at once, so getting stronger and loosing weight is difficult to achieve. so focus on 1 for 8 weeks, then the other and you will probably do better than if you'd tried to reach a comprimise and struggled on for 16 weeks trying to lose weight and gain strength.

cyclists wouldn't let their weight fluctuate quite as much

I think it's unwise to lump us all together as if we behave the same

I had great results dieting over the winter whilst doing base training. Weight loss completely stopped when I started speed training tho. So TINAS is right but the thing is there's a race season, so weight loss is best done outside of that ie in the winter.

I was thinking more about people who cycle for fitness/racing rahter than the majority of us who just do it for the sake of it. Very few of us would deliberately put on a stone as part of our training, christmass maybe, but not training.

Ok, but what do you consume/take to maintain your weight during race season? Protein supplements / recovery drinks? Or just eat more?

I don't haev a problem maintaining weight, so I dunno. I maintained it that year just by eating a bit more than normal. Bigger portions of the same healthy food etc.

You really don't need protein unless you want to bulk up. And bulk is not the same as strength – just look at the size of most of the elite MTBers at races.

Btw, what is your body fat percentage? Can you see your abs etc?

I know I've started waking up starving, sometimes in the middle of the night

Going off at a tangent here – I'm losely following iDave's eating plan and have completely cut out fruit, of which I ate a massive amount daily.

I reckon my blood sugar levels have returned to 'normal' as I am not having serious hunger pangs/weakness/light-headedness.

Food for thought, as it were.

On another note, do you need to exercise every day? Do you ever have a rest day?

Last count it was just over 14%, but I've certainly lost fat since then. Abs are pretty clearly visible, though I have a small amount of fat just below the belly button that needs to go.

C_G I don't think I could give up fruit, but then I just read your second sentance… hmmm?

do you need to exercise every day?

Possibly not but I have an addictive personality.

Do you ever have a rest day?

One day at a weekend, if I've been out the night before, generally still do something though ie just go out to some jumps or something.

You are proably okay. The more fat you can lose the better you'll ride, down to like 6% where it becomes unhealthy. I'd be surprised if your body let this happen without you really trying to force it, mind.

CG – a rest day can still include exercise. In any case, it depends if you are training to improve or just exercsing for the hell of it.

Your blood sugar levels will always have been 'normal' unless you are unhealthy. You are probably feeling the effects of more consistent blood sugar. Fruit does NOT fill your blood with sugar, because it is low GI.

When I was doing intense work five or more times a week I used to use this stuff to surpress hunger…

very rarely take supplements these days though, I prefer to just eat normal food rather than fill myself up with chemicals.

Kev