Well I’m with edenvalleyboy on this one. Whats 10% on your bill if you’ve had a nice meal? Seriously?

It just seems to be another thing that massively illustrates how petty, selfish and mean spirited a lot of people are. Some even wrap it up as some kind of ethical stance. Which is just bollocks

You going to take that shit, Cougar? ^^^^

😈

Well I’m with edenvalleyboy on this one. Whats 10% on your bill if you’ve had a nice meal? Seriously?

Absolutely – had a weekend trip to New Orleans so every minute was precious, 2 bell ends started arguing about who should pay the left over $1 after working out the bill & splitting the tip.
After a couple of minutes I threw a buck over saying “life’s too short” (there were 15 of us over 2 tables – they were on the pedants table) and left… followed gratefully by the other 12

on a slightly different tangent, I’m a member of a country club type place, which adds by default, 12% to every bill for service.
I’m well aware that the tips don’t go to the staff, so routinely ask for it to be removed and leave at least the equivalent amount cash. Seems to be very well received.

As for bill splitters anyone who gets a calculator out at a restaurant needs a good shoeing.
If however I’m out with t-total friend who doesn’t eat much (he’s now sadly moved to London), I’ll often buy the dinner just so I can get a quilt free lift home!

just so I can get a quilt free lift home!

Duvet mind this arrangement?

bongohoohaa – Member
just so I can get a quilt free lift home!
Duvet mind this arrangement?

Eider down to drive?

Whichever way you look at it, demanding a service charge is removed while sat on your fat arse, filling your face, while people wait of on you hand and foot makes you an utter cockwomble in my book

Even if you give an exact (or higher) cash equivalent to the waiting staff at the table? I wouldn’t call it cockwomblery, I’d call it savvy tipping and the staff would thank you for it. But if you want to put the money in the manager’s wallet instead you go ahead.

The thing with a service charge is that you have no idea where it is going to once you have paid it. Querying where it goes to and removing it from the bill if you are unhappy with the answer is nothing to be ashamed of*, as long as you ensure that you tip the staff that served you an equivelent amount.

* remember it might be fairly split amongst *all* of the staff of the establishment, including the ones you don’t see in the kitchen.

…

Splitting by orders or into portions is fine, if done accurately (or erring towards generosity)

Not tipping is just tight though – unless genuinely sub standard service has not been given. And “This dish isn’t what I thought it was because I didn’t read or ask about it” isn’t poor service.

Paying a bit more and subsidising others can save more hassle than its worth sometimes. What I hate the most is the same old people who sit on their hands at Cafe stops. They are quite happy to let others get a round in but when it comes to their turn they just sit there. They wait for someone else to crack but if that doesn’t happen they get up and bid farewell or if they crack themselves then they just throw a few coppers on the table and plead poverty.

While the ability to stick to veganism in the UK does suggest a flair for attention to detail and perhaps even the ability to be assertive about your requirements, I’ve not noticed any correlation between lentil bake* and tightness in the arse department. All the vegans I know are generous to a fault.

*other less stereotypically vegan recipes are available.

You going to take that shit, Cougar? ^^^^

Heh. Stirrer.

Thing is Binners, you could argue the same about anything. What’s 10% of your grocery bill for a week’s shopping when the nice lady’s scanned it all for you? Or another 15% at Kwik-Fit for the chap changing your tires?

I’m not arguing for not paying a tip, or somehow short-changing the restaurant or the staff. I’m arguing against the disingenuousness* of it all. If the cost of a meal doesn’t include service, bump up the prices so that it does. If I want to tip extra, or not, that’s my choice. And we usually tip generously by choice. We’ve tipped delivery drivers, hotel cleaning fairies and so on before now even. But adding themselves a mandatory gift of free money onto a bill and deciding how much it is is just bloody cheeky. That’s not a tip, it’s a tax, and we’re conditioned into feeling guilty for not paying it. It’s quite the racket.

Also, 10-15% of a group meal isn’t just another couple of quid, it can be a considerable amount. In our group of a dozen people, that would have paid outright for an additional diner with change to spare. “Here’s your bill, by the way we’ve added on another fifty quid because we can.” Screw that.

(* – is that a word? It is now.)

I’ve not noticed any correlation between lentil bake* and tightness in the arse department.

Quite the opposite, I’d have thought.

Once didn’t pay the service charge because we had waited over an hour for dessert and got fobbed off when asked where it was. They got stroppy about it but had no one to blame but themselves.

So because of this expected culture

it’s not though is it… this ‘culture’ is the preserve of overbearing lah de dah middle class aspirational jonesy ****, who deserve in the main to choke on their starters 🙂

it’s not though is it… this ‘culture’ is the preserve of overbearing lah de dah middle class aspirational jonesy ****, who deserve in the main to choke on their starters

It starred out Binners? Weird.

I’ve been on trips to germany with the lads for the last 10yrs.
I won’t be going this year.
I have no objection to splitting the bill.
None – never have done until last year, the point was reached when one or two members of the group were ordering Steins when others were on kleiners.
Schnapps when some were on water or diet coke.
Once perhaps on the last night blow out.
But at every meal – no.
The biggest pisstake was at Sabine’s restaurant where two of us had schnitzel (admittedly sodding great portions), a coffee and plenty of water as it’d been over 40 degrees that day. Iced water is free there btw.
The other 7 in the group all had various steaks, starters, schnapps, whiskey, etc.
I had to make a call home so was outside when the bill came and promptly got told after the fact that my “share” was €50. For a €16 euro actual cost.
Needless to say that didn’t go unsaid.
There’s times to just split and not worry so as to keep everything amicable however theres also a line that some are far too happy to cross.

With the group I was with last week, the refusal to pay the service charge was nothing to do with who might ultimately get it, rather they refused to tip 10%. By my rough calcs they gave 5%. And all the complaining was done within earshot of the waiting staff, who’d ran hand and foot to us all night. No one wanted for anything, drinks were replenished quickly, service was excellent.

I had to make a call home so was outside when the bill came and promptly got told after the fact that my “share” was €50. For a €16 euro actual cost.

I probably know the answer here, but here goes.
Was the atmosphere, with this group and its associated banter, likely to be the same as you having a solitary 16 Euro meal?
I apreciate that this wasn’t worth 34 Euros. This is one of the things I don’t understand. You go out with friends, people you like being with, people that enrich your life and at the end of an evening put a price on that relationship.
I’ve got friends who don’t pay rounds, as mentioned earlier, but they give in other areas.
If they become leeches they soon stop being friends, as Junkyard says it’s all about give and take and that’s fair. Not paying your fair share isn’t and you don’t get an invite and it appears that there are differing opinions on what is fair.

as Junkyard says it’s all about give and take and that’s fair.

My give is to be the designated driver for all the drunk folk.I am not paying for them to get drunk.

I dont make them pay for fuel before someone asks 😉

Designated driver should have all their drinks paid for, never mind subsidising the drunks.

Boardingbob – I would have been horribly embarrassed in that case and would have apologised to the staff/made some sort of financial gesture ( size almost certainly based on how squiffy I was ) in the hope of shaming/encouraging the other members into recognising the service that they got.

My point was more that it can be hard to make sure that the tips go to all of the right people – a good restaurant will take the service charge and split it between all staff as they have all contributed to providing you with a good experience, a bad place will take the service charge and pocket it/use it to subsidise wages. Likewise if you tip the server you can’t rely on them sharing that money out fairly to other members of staff.

My give is to be the designated driver for all the drunk folk.I am not paying for them to get drunk.

Well, you should have said that earlier and saved a lot of misunderstanding.
Are you designated driver every time you go out, even if one isn’t required? 😉

My point was more that it can be hard to make sure that the tips go to all of the right people – a good restaurant will take the service charge and split it between all staff as they have all contributed to providing you with a good experience, a bad place will take the service charge and pocket it/use it to subsidise wages. Likewise if you tip the server you can’t rely on them sharing that money out fairly to other members of staff.

I’ve got an idea which might find a third way between these two troublesome methods- I’ve got a feeling the odd business type already do it…..How about the restaurant charge enough to pay their staff sufficiently; the customer pays what it says on the menu and leaves the performance management to the manager who only employs folk who give good service without having to be bribed. It’ll never catch on.

Was the atmosphere, with this group and its associated banter, likely to be the same as you having a solitary 16 Euro meal?

Where do you stand on the others in the group who’d had a €90 meal / drinks for €50? Bargain, right?

Or, if the €16 meal is worth €50 in real terms, maybe those consuming €80 should be throwing in €240 for the same value / markup?

Where do you stand on the others in the group who’d had a €90 meal / drinks for €50? Bargain, right?

I guess that would depend on the giving and taking element that we need to take a step back and look at.
I go for a meal with you and there’s a 50 Euro difference between meals, I get get computer info from you that saves me £200. Would it be right for me complain about you paying less? Probably not. Or, to redress the balance, if I am able to give you something that might otherwise have a monetary value during our mealtime conversation, a genuine trade price (with a similar £200 saving)for something for your home. Would you then begrudge sharing the (increased) cost of a meal?
It’s so much more than a just £25 extra on the cost of a meal.
I find it odd that I even have to explain this. 😐

I find it odd that I even have to explain this

yeah, you’re right
We should always pay our mates to let us hang out with them

I think you may have lost sight of what being friends means

I think you may have lost sight of what being friends means

❓
It means stuffing them for a couple of quid in a restaurant, or they’re not mates.

Proper mates don’t put a price on being mates.

I find it odd that I even have to explain this.

I find it odd that you attach a material value to such things. I can spend time with friends without needing to spend any money at all, and offer what advice I can on here freely to complete strangers. Hell, I moderate the forum out of the love of it, maybe I should hit up Mark for a cheque?

Regardless, if we are paying for friendship, shouldn’t we be paying friends rather than the venue?

Would it be right for me complain about you paying less? Probably not. Or, to redress the balance, if I am able to give you something that might otherwise have a monetary value during our mealtime conversation

So, you go out for a meal with friends, you save them £200 with your advice, so they should foot the bill by dint of payment?

You’re in London, aren’t you?

It means stuffing them for a couple of quid in a restaurant, or they’re not mates.
Proper mates don’t put a price on being mates.

No they don’t, but as I said at the outset, that assumes everyone has equal ability to throw money around. €50 might be “a couple of quid” to you, but it isn’t to me right now. I could really, really use someone throwing that sort of money my way out of sheer altruism. Maybe I should start charging for IT advice?

I find it odd that you attach a material value to such things. I can spend time with friends without needing to spend any money at all, and offer what advice I can on here freely to complete strangers. Hell, I moderate the forum out of the love of it, maybe I should hit up Mark for a cheque?

That’s the whole point, I don’t attach a value, it was used to expand on the idea as an illustration. It’s the calculator out a bill time who do. As I said earlier- I invite you, I pay (there are no conditions attached to this). I’m glad that you finally agree.

Op, KISS

1. Dont go out to dinner with tight ars*s

2. Dont be an ars* when you go out for dinner with your mates

3. err…..that’s it

martinhutch – Member
Designated driver should have all their drinks paid for, never mind subsidising the drunks.

yip.

No they don’t, but as I said at the outset, that assumes everyone has equal ability to throw money around. €50 might be “a couple of quid” to you, but it isn’t to me right now. I could really, really use someone throwing that sort of money my way out of sheer altruism. Maybe I should start charging for IT advice?

I think your position is somewhat different from th OP’s, a mate would know your position, understand it an deal with it without you having to fight your corner come bill time.

You’re in London, aren’t you?

No, and I hope this hasn’t affected the way you percieve my position.

Funny thread, when we go out for meals with friends, it’s pretty simple, we all spend about the same so we split the bill, it’s generally 3 drinks each, wine for the dorrises and beer for the blokes, a starter and a main.

If one person decided they wanted a £30 main and shots of brandy too, and then insisted the bill was split, well,that wouldn’t wash for a second with any of us, and rightly so.
Equaly if someone didn’t have a starter, thier contribution would be about a fiver less.

Tips we generally round up to the nearest fiver.

Are you designated driver every time you go out, even if one isn’t required?

😆

Proper mates don’t put a price on being mates

True and proper mates dont expect me to give them £20 to enjoy their meal and piss up as an entrance fee.

I wouldn’t trust that Junkyard chap, about 12 hours ago:

😉

thm kind of did it just up there, but this thread is easily summarised: don’t be a dick

If you’ve all had similar meals then getting out a calculator is being a dick
If you’ve eaten something more expensive or had more/pricier drinks then not chipping in more is being a dick
If somebody in your group is a tightarse teetotal vegan whose meal cost less than everybody else then expecting them to chip in the same is being a dick
If somebody in the group is short of money and you’re rolling in it, then expecting them to pay the same is being a dick (depending on circumstance – they may feel insulted not to, in which case insisting they pay less is being a dick)
Not paying a tip when you’ve got good service is being a dick

It’s really not hard.

BTW in case it needs saying I’d far rather go out for a meal with JY than some of the sad gits on this thread – I’ll even promise not to contaminate his onion bhajis (can’t remember how we split the meal when we went out, though no booze or steaks, so I’m assuming he wasn’t subsidising us – if he did then 😳 )

So for all of those who are concearned about the low paid, how much do you tip in the pub? Somebody could be serving you beer all night? What about in the newsagent or corner shop? How about the nurse who treats you in hospital? The government takes a hammering for subsidising cheap skate employers now people should subsidise a sub set of employee’s or worse as pointed out the dreaded service charge! Miraculouly 10% on top of your bill designated to go nowhere – I linked back on the first page to where they had incorporated that into the price and clearly told people that and that the rise went to paying the staff a sensible wage for the work they were doing.

As for splitting, I can’t think of any good mates who would order way more and insist on splitting or any who would object to the person who had the least paying their smaller share. Thats what good mates do.

I’m all for the end of tipping as a default expectation with the living wage coming in etc.

The living wage is not coming in. They are rebranding the minimum wage as the living wage. This is still going to be significqntly lower than the actual “living wage”