I was sitting squarely on the fence about your issue until I read that the dog has bit 4 people before. Time for it to go.

This tells me you’re not prepared to put the work in required to bust him down to his proper pack position.

Or that he agrees with a large proportion of the dog training society that pack theory is a load of old hogwash?

The dog knows that it’s a dog. It still knows it’s a dog whether it sits on the sofa, your bed or the floor. It sits on the sofa because it’s comfortable, and because you are likely to stroke it when it does, not because of some sinister master-plan to take over the family. It knows very well that it’s not one of the family, because the family aren’t dogs. If you don’t want a dog sitting on your sofa then that’s your decision but it has nothing to do with anyone’s position in some mythical pack.

This has probably been said already, but if you can’t guarentee the dog won’t bite her, or anyone else again, then unfortunately you don’t have a choice do you?

Or that he agrees with a large proportion of the dog training society that pack theory is a load of old hogwash?

The dog knows that it’s a dog. It still knows it’s a dog whether it sits on the sofa, your bed or the floor. It sits on the sofa because it’s comfortable, and because you are likely to stroke it when it does, not because of some sinister master-plan to take over the family. It knows very well that it’s not one of the family, because the family aren’t dogs. If you don’t want a dog sitting on your sofa then that’s your decision but it has nothing to do with anyone’s position in some mythical pack.

Not sure that I agree with that, at all – based on direct observation… 🙄

Our little westie was a bit of a nipper when he was trodden on/food snatched away/jumped on from the sofa etc..etc he nipped both of our kids , we still have him….he’s ancient now and just stinks.
[list]DONT[/list] ask for advise off the forum. This will just throw up a lot of polarized views and end in a big debate or thread closed scenario, just thrash it out with the family and be at peace with your decision..it’s your call.

stick a muzzle on him?
the options arn’t just kill it or let it tear your daughters eyes out ffs

my old staffy (10yrs) tried to bite my 1st child through the baby gate, a day after that he started snarling whenever my son stood up (whilst learning to walk, previous to that no aggression or problems(never ever left alone though).
I phoned the vet and discussed this, I then phoned the local c&d home (they did not re-home dogs who had shown aggression towards humans) and then I took him to the vet and had him put to sleep, easy decision.
the mrs was at the time a theatre nurse in plastic surgery, lots of kids/people with mauled bits and pieces by dogs, so the decision was perhaps easier for us..

because you loved rugby, hockey, but you had an accident….

…because you loved MTB and you had an accident….

…because accidents happen.

yeah, you did something you wanted to do, you know? That thing called choice. Being bitten by an aggressive dog, when you’re two is not a choice you make is it.

Some accidents can be avoided, maybe in this case by acting the first time the dog bit someone?

Hey,

Ignoring your daughter – what risks you put her in are your problem and up to you, but no one has yet pointed out how antisocial it is to take a dog that you already know is a biter, out for walks and runs unmuzzled, when you are clearly incapable of stopping him biting people (if you were capable of stopping him, he wouldn’t have managed to bite 4 people so far).

Every time he bites someone, do you say to them “he’s never done that before”, like every other person who owns a biting dog seems to?

As for the comments above about dogs being a bit like sharp knives. I’ve just checked, and none of my knives will jump out of the knive block and attack any passing toddlers. I don’t let kids sit on the sofa playing with kitchen knives either.

Hey,

Ignoring your daughter
to be fair, he’s already doing a pretty good job on that front

This tells me you’re not prepared to put the work in required to bust him down to his proper pack position.
Move him on or have him killed.

Agree again.

I feel bad for the dog here. If you can’t be arsed to train it properly you should never have had it in the first place.

Ok Warton, substitute, you “put” two year old on a horse/donkey but it nipped her and she fell off. Shoot the dangerous beast and make some glue then. FFS, some perspective!!!!???? Accidents happen, especially when babies/ young children and animals are left together. Who’s fault is that?

When I see a MTB coming, I recall my dogs and often reward them with a dog treet.. They sit and wait, but still occassionally catch my hand with their teeth. Bloody beasts, dangerous and unpredictable, better put them to sleep immediately. Four bites and your out – mine are well past that. An animal’s version of Logans Run but without Jenny Agguter getting her kit off.

For the same reason we persecute sharks!

FFS, some perspective!!!!???

Perspective = this is the fifth time the dog has bitten someone. 🙄

In 12 years.. Good job we don’t judge humans in the same way.

Anyway, in danger now of doing what I said I would avoid. So Im out.

Joe,

It was myself that drew the analogy with ‘other dangeous things’ that need to be managed. There are otherways of managing a potentially dangerous ‘thing’ (dog, knife, etc) without banning or destroying them. That can include keeping the knife in the block out of reach, not letting the dog on the sofa, (or even in the house) or muzzleing it. teamhurtmore has obviously a bit more time to put together a fuller respone but appears to echo my sentiments.

They all said the same thing, he can’t be rehomed due to his age and for having a history of biting.

PLEASE check that with Dogs Trust before you make any more decisions.
Friends of ours adopted a dog from them back in July.
2 previous adopters had returned him – all knew he had a history of being aggressive.
Seems he’d been badly mistreated and his first form of defence was attack (even dogs trust staff / behaviourists struggled to even get a collar on him..)
Long, slow TLC from our friends means he’s still with them and slowly getting round to being handled.

A long winded way of saying it’s likely there is someone out there who will adopt yours.

And that’s 84 in doggie years right? I mean, that’s almost never.

Maybe there’s a chemical option, could the dog not be drugged to remain passive and indifferent for the rest of it’s life? I’m thinking along the lines of kids with ADHD and Ritalin?

Best to think of all options after all…

Good job we don’t judge humans in the same way.

If my bairn bit 5 people in 12 years I’m pretty sure social services would be having a word.

Good job some of us don’t humanise all animals really.

marsedneman has it…

Those comparing dogs to other manageable “risks” are missing the key difference. Dogs are sentient creatures. They have an underlying reason for biting – maltreatment, anxiety, protection of others, protection of their own territory, lack of training, incorrect view of their place in the pecking order, unabated aggression (fighting / gaurd dogs?)

Whatever the reason, someone, somewhere will have the love and patience to resolve.

But a family with small kids is probably not the correct “someone, somewhere”

They all said the same thing, he can’t be rehomed due to his age and for having a history of biting.

PLEASE check that with Dogs Trust before you make any more decisions.

Our Westie was known to be aggressive. He’d killed one cat, two birds, attacked/fought a Staff and bit a child.

He easily found a new home as I provided reams and reams of background to the rehomers..

In 12 years.. Good job we don’t judge humans in the same way.

Are you for real? It’s OK for dogs to bite people, as long as they don’t do it very often?

and as for this:

They sit and wait, but still occassionally catch my hand with their teeth. Bloody beasts, dangerous and unpredictable, better put them to sleep immediately.

compare it to the OP:

He can be quite an aggresive dog, he’s bitten me before trying to get him out from under the bed, he bit a stranger out on a walk once, my neighbour when he was dropping off some post and he’s also bitten my daughter before

not exactly comparing apples with apples are you?

Why so much effort to re-home aggresive dogs. Plenty of non agressive dogs that need a home. Only one right thing to do if there are kids in the house.

Bury the dog/child alive?

My rather large dog knows his boundaries. Never goes through a door or up the stairs in front of me and when its play time will put a toy in his mouth as he knows mouthing is not tolerated. He growled at a local drunk once, who decided to give him a “cuddle”. 😯 Still didn’t bite him though, it seems he prefers the headbutt.

perhaps take this route

http://www.williamhalestaxidermist.co.uk/

you still “have” the dog but he cant bite…

Dig a pit and let them fight it out

I don’t get why this is even an issue for debate.

“Only” bitten someone four times is four too many, and there’s a world of difference between catching you with a tooth when feeding it and actually properly biting. The OP suggests that this is the latter case.

I’ll type this slowly because some folks here don’t seem to be able to read too quickly:

His dog bit his two year old daughter’s face.

Did we get that, or do I need to type it again?

I sympathise with the OP, and with the animal. I know how attached people can get to pets; I had my cat of 18 years put to sleep years ago and it still upsets me to talk about it (and if you believe the dog-huggers, that was ‘only’ a cat).

You can argue till the cows come home about poor training, whether or not dogs are pack animals, whether it’s natural for the breed, who’s fault it was, but the fact remains that you have a dangerous, unpredictable animal and a small child in the same room. This cannot coexist. It just can’t.

I don’t believe a muzzle is an acceptable solution. Mistakes happen, people forget, the thing has to eat sometimes. What happens when you take your eyes of it for a minute and the now-toddler decides to investigate the food bowl? Do you really want an animal which requires muzzling sharing your family’s home?

It may be possible to retrain it, I’m no dog psychology expert. But there’s the adage of old dogs and new tricks, and in any case even if you believed you were successful in this, would you be able to trust it 100% in the future? I wouldn’t.

It needs rehoming, and quickly. Sorry.

DONT
ask for advise off the forum.

Gives us all something to do on monday 😉

Dig a pit and let them fight it out

The only solution that is completely fair and just.

Not sure that I agree with that, at all – based on direct observation. ..

Your observations are influenced by the premise that dogs behave according to pack theory. Dog jumps up, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog jumps on sofa, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog goes through a door first, it’s trying to challenge you. Dog growls at you, it’s trying to challenge you. But in each case above the answer could be, the dog is doing something that you don’t want it to do, but you never got around to training it to act in a way that you find acceptable.

Do you seriously think that a dog believes that it is the same as a human, and is living in some sort of hierarchy in which it is constantly trying to climb the ladder to reach the alpha position? Our dog is a female, will I get home from work one day to find the wife with her throat ripped out and the dog all agent provocateurd up on the bed?

Our friends have a GSD, it’s a huge great thing that could rip your head off if it wanted (I’ve worn the padded suit in protection training and it is really scary). From the very first time I was introduced to the dog it would listen to my commands, not because it thought I was pack leader, I didn’t do any alpha rolls or have to fight with it to prove my standing in its pack. It listened because it has been trained to listen to humans.

guide dog trainer we went for a walk with yesterday said the ‘pack theory’ was incredibly dated, almost as dated as hitting/shouting at your dog to teach it.

jekkyl – Member
The dog was on the sofa because that where he likes to sit. I agree that dogs shouldn’t be on the sofa but if we told him off for sitting on it we’d be shoving him off it all day and anyway he just goes and sits on the other one anyway and he probably sits on them all day when we are out.

This is your problem, the dog should never have been allowed on the sofa.

“The dog doesn’t like” – it’s a dog not a person – trained properly the dog will do as told and will be happy doing so. Dogs understand hierarchy, the dog needs to know it’s at the bottom of the hierarchy. As I posted your dog thinks it’s at the same level as you all and certainly above the little one.

Our dog doesn’t sit on the furniture. Our dog doesn’t go upstairs. She knows here place is downstairs and on the floor, that’s what she’s been taught.

guide dog trainer we went for a walk with yesterday said the ‘pack theory’ was incredibly dated, almost as dated as hitting/shouting at your dog to teach it.

Says he, offering no alternative…. 😉

JUST LISTEN TO COUGAR

end of

Our dog is a female, will I get home from work one day to find the wife with her throat ripped out and the dog all agent provocateurd up on the bed?

Stop it…you’re giving me the horn!

Our dog doesn’t sit on the furniture. Our dog doesn’t go upstairs. She knows here place is downstairs and on the floor, that’s what she’s been taught.

spot on Jambalaya!

As soon as I saw the ‘sitting on the sofa’ comment, like all those who have pointed it out subsequently…..THAT more than anything points to the root of the problem.

Unfortunately too many dog owners treat their dogs like cuddly toys and not the dogs that they are.

I love my dog, but he knows his place and everyone else loves him too because he’s so well trained and obedient.

Do you seriously think that a dog believes that it is the same as a human, and is living in some sort of hierarchy in which it is constantly trying to climb the ladder to reach the alpha position?

Some dogs do, yes.