So does anyone think that Nicola's resignation was merely coincidental timing?
(But hubby did land a great motorhome for all their spare time - allegedly)
How appropriate thata senior SNP minister had a photo op with the police this week.
Just a wee reminder to be careful what is said as its a live case and you can get into trouble.
the guardian pulled its commenting on it for this reason
An arrest is necessary to interview under caution as a suspect to compel truthful answers. I see nothing hugely out of the ordinary inthis
Is an old classic allowed!... 🙂
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is the suggestion that the SNP have got money from places they shouldn't have, or that someone's been nicking money legitimately given by fans/members?
TJ - as a previous SNP voter, your claim that "I see nothing hugely out of the ordinary in this" - I can assure you, I most certainly do.
I don't expect or think it appropriate for MP's, from whatever rosette to participate in behaviour which ends up in handcuffs.
This should never be normalised
is the suggestion that the SNP have got money from places they shouldn’t have, or that someone’s been nicking money legitimately given by fans/members?
£600,000 was supposed to be ringfenced for IndyRef2. This was made up of donations (donors told it was strictly for IndyRef2).
Now it's gone and doesn't seem to have been spent on IndyRef2.
Most likely it just went towards running the party (and buying a campervan). Someone said on the last thread political parties are run much like football teams. Spend way beyond your means and hope you win something big before anyone looks too closely at the books.
I thought it was more about has the money been spent for the specific purpose it was proposed it would be. i.e. People donated to gain independence but instead the money brought a nice motorhome. (I guess SNP will say motorhome was going to be used for promoting independence.)
Lets be honest it can't be as bad as any other parties funding.
I can understand TJs denials on this - I remember defending Lance Armstrong right to to the point at which he confessed. It's all very disappointing to be honest.
It also erodes trust. How can we trust the SNP to run an Independent Scotland, if they can't even run the finances of their own party?
It also erodes trust. How can we trust the SNP to run an Independent Scotland, if they can’t even run the finances of their own party?
I didn't know the plan was for Scotland to be a single party state post-independence.
Or is this Johnann Lamont argument? That Scots are genetically incapable of running their own country?
If independence happens then the SNP are likely to be the party in power at the time. Not saying that will always continue to be the case.
I'm in favour of independence, by the way, and approve of most of the SNP policies, but in order to gain independence, people need to be convinced that's it's (financially) viable.
I didn’t know the plan was for Scotland to be a single party state post-independence.
The party of government runs the country. The Tories run the UK - as much as he'd like to Kier Starmer can't dictate policy.
The SNP would have been the governing party, with a big majority. It's not about Scots being incapable it's wether the SNP is capable.
There will be an election at some point though, won't there?
It suits the Unionist narrative to promote the idea that independence will mean SNP unchallenged rule forever which is why it's surprising an Indy voter would be pushing it.
Post independence I doubt the SNP would even make it to the first election. Far too many conflicting political viewpoints to survive without a single focus point to unite them.
It's not me that needs to be convinced of the benefits of independence though, it's the 50% of the country who are undecided or against it. The tribulations of the SNP financial saga isn't helping with this.
As I said already, I'm disappointed.
Not that a politician / party official is arrested - thats highly unusual but in a complex investigation where there is a suspicion of fraud its normal to arrest someone so you can interview them under oath.
Ie the arrest does not mean criminal charges are going to occur. The arrest is to progress the investigation
I am not defending anyone. Its clear that its been highly murky goings on.
Some interesting discussion on LBC about this.
There are quite few claiming it's an anti-SNP bias that's caused this and the media are stoking the fire, even though this is unheard of in a major UK political party.
It will be interesting to find out what exactly has been going on.
The SNP would have been the governing party, with a big majority
Thats just wrong. the SNP have had a majority of one, once. the rest of the time its been minority governments or coalitions
Gobuchal - actually its commonplace in Westminster. The differnce is Scotland does not have a servile police force
The tribulations of the SNP financial saga isn’t helping with this.
Comes under the heading of, 'Gotta want it' for me.
So far, this looks like three arrogant people who weren't held to account by their own party (and it seems several people did try) or the press (who have absolutely no excuse).
If this had been going on for decades and it was something everyone knew about then I would agree there is a fundamental problem. However, it's only been a couple of years and things have been progressing with the investigation and resignations throughout this period.
IF the actions of these three people are enough to push someone firmly into the No camp then I'd suggest they were a lot more than halfway there already.
Hopefully lessons will be learned and the Yes movement will come out stronger in the end. I'd like to see a separation between the SNP and the wider Yes movement with the SNP acting as executors of the Yes movement's will when it comes to independence matters while focusing more on the business of running the country and governing being the SNP's main function.
Post independence I doubt the SNP would even make it to the first election.
That's hardly an incentive for those currently enjoying their salaries, benefits and power to actually do something about independence.
That’s hardly an incentive for those currently enjoying their salaries, benefits and power to actually do something about independence.
That's why I said what I did about the SNP becoming the 'governing' party and only executing the will of the wider Yes movement when it comes to independence.
This situation is a pretty good illustration of why mixing political parties and single issue campaigns is not a good idea.
The differnce is Scotland does not have a servile police force
But it absolutely does has a servile 'Independent' Crown Office, who have been dragging their feet in issuing warrants. The ICO is run by the Lord Advocate, who sits in Government, and was appointed by Nicola Sturgeon. Absolutely no conflict of interest there at all. Nothing to see.
I've aid it before on another thread, but SNP (and the Tories) are now disengaged from the 'people', they have been in power for so long that they are now doing their own thing and not really doing a great job of helping the people.
Both parties need to be kicked out and someone fresh in charge, get things moving in the right direction again.
But it absolutely does has a servile ‘Independent’ Crown Office, who have been dragging their feet in issuing warrants.
Errm - thats 2 premises searched, 3 folk interviewed under caution. hardly dragging their feet
Both parties need to be kicked out and someone fresh in charge, get things moving in the right direction again.
That does beg the question, who should that be and what is the right direction?
In Scotland its pretty much " a plague on all their houses"
tories - led by a dim nonentity who everytime he tries to distinguish the scots tories from Westminster gets slapped down and rtrtacts. Not a single positive policy
Labour - another nonentity in charge who is not allowed to differentiate from london and whoes main policy is SNP baaaaaad
Lib Dems - hopeless compromised by the proven liar Charmicheal 5th place in the number of seats
Greens - spent all their political capital on the GRA and the deposit scheme - the former of which is hardly their core remit and the latter a fringe issue
SNP - hubris, secrecy and murky financial dealings.
Alba - run by yesterdays man and a self confessed groper only people with seats are all defectors tiny real support
I have no idea who I will vote for at the next holyrood elections
I expect a tory / labour anti SNP pact again and a tory / labour coalition after the next Holyrood elections
@tjagain, the ICO wanted the police Investigation to be publicly (i.e. by the cops) called a "fact finding mission" and delayed granting search warrants for four weeks. Why the delay? What happened in the meantime? While the cops are most certainly investigating now, there has been a (so far) inexplicable delay in getting started. It may be meaningless, but it adds further weight to both people saying there's been a cover up and accusations of self interested parties with power and reputations to protect well; protecting themselves.
I've long held Nicola Sturgeon as a politician that we down south could and should be envious of, and this whole affair spoils what is otherwise a pretty faultless political career. I would personally wish for all of this to be easily explainable, but the more I look, the more it looks like the top of the SNP is a bit rotten. And that is a shame.
Maybe this is for another thread. But in that case TJ. Why do you support Independence?
It’s not me that needs to be convinced of the benefits of independence though, it’s the 50% of the country who are undecided or against it. The tribulations of the SNP financial saga isn’t helping with this.
whilst I am one of those 50% unconvinced on the merits of independence, this doesn’t really factor into my concerns
Let’s be perfectly honest here, the SNP may well be dodgy as hell, but if we don’t get independence we’ll be run by Westminster, who are also dodgy as hell. So either way we get screwed.
The solution is to ban anyone from politics who ever expresses an interest in being a politician from an early age. As its a vocation that seems to attract self serving, corrupt opportunists regardless off political allegiance .. I only semi joke when I say that..
As an aside, I am slightly enjoying seeing the egg on the faces of all those nationalists who have constantly ripped into boris and co over the past few years, when it transpires that our lot are just as bad😂
Because I strongly believe an independent Scotland would be a more prosperous, fairer and better place to live once we are no longer being dragged down by a right wing england and I want to be in the EU
As an aside, I am slightly enjoying seeing the egg on the faces of all those nationalists who have constantly ripped into boris and co over the past few years, when it transpires that our lot are just as bad😂
Hmm, not sure I would say getting done for fraud for saying 'donate for the 2nd IndyRef' instead of 'donate for the independence campaign' really compares to the billions in fraud the Tories are responsible for.
600k out of a target 1 million raised from a population of ~6 million half of whom purportedly support independence. Oh dear.
My bet is the outcome of all this is a fine for the SNP under electoral law or accounting. No criminal charges to individuals.
I have no idea who I will vote for at the next holyrood elections
It's a worry isn't it. For me, the elephant in the room is that if independence happened tomorrow (clearly it won't but it's something I'm broadly for) I have little confidence in the current representatives (parties and individuals) of Holyrood being up to the job. A totally discredited SNP without a figurehead like Sturgeon to rally around leaves a damn big void of credible 'professionals' with charisma to lead and debate our joint future. And that is as much a damnation of the opposition parties as it is the SNP. An independent Scotland needs both a governing party and opposition that look like they are up to the job.
Also the "questionnaires" that Johnson and Sunak filled in after their illegal partying are equivalent to an interview under oath. Both were prosecuted and found guilty under criminal law
My bet is the outcome of all this is a fine for the SNP under electoral law or accounting
Depends what happened to the money really. If it's been spend by individuals on themselves (perhaps some sort of high value vehicle?) could be more than a slap on the wrist or just a fine.
Hmm, not sure I would say getting done for fraud for saying ‘donate for the 2nd IndyRef’ instead of ‘donate for the independence campaign’ really compares to the billions in fraud the Tories are responsible for.
Of course it doesn't, but it's still fraud. I don't think the SNP should get an easy ride because the Tories are shits
So it would appear Scottish politicians are no more trustworthy or competent than Westminster politicians, at least according to TJ, but it will all be better if Scotland was independent, hmm I'm convinced.
An independent Scotland needs both a governing party and opposition that look like they are up to the job.
Post independence I expect a large realignment in the parties and also labour or whatever they become will be no longer controlled by London
Its a huge source of frustration for me as a former labour voter that Scottish labour are forbidden to develop any policies that work for scotland independently of London and thus are forced to compete with the tories for the unionist vote ie half the population
So it would appear Scottish politicians are no more trustworthy or competent than Westminster politicians,
Errmmm - there is no corruption on anything like the scale that is normalised and legalised at Westminster. Westminster is corrupt from top to bottom and also Scotland has an electoral system suitable for a 21st century democracy
So it would appear Scottish politicians are no more trustworthy or competent than Westminster politicians, at least according to TJ, but it will all be better if Scotland was independent, hmm I’m convinced.
To be fair, Scotland is currently investigating whether £600,000 was raised under false pretenses (ie, for the SNP rather than specifically for the IndyRef2 campaign).
The Tories, meanwhile, have managed to funnel at least some of the £69 billion they have 'wasted' into the pockets of their mates.
https://www.bestforbritain.org/scandalous_spending_tracker
Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable saying Westminster is worse.
My bet is the outcome of all this is a fine for the SNP under electoral law or accounting. No criminal charges to individuals.
Also the “questionnaires” that Johnson and Sunak filled in after their illegal partying are equivalent to an interview under oath. Both were prosecuted and found guilty under criminal law
So breaking electoral law is not a criminal offence?
