Looking at some deals for a new bike and there’s a few good offers on orange bikes to be had. I’ve always considered them overpriced but with the sales they’ve come into my price range.

Obviously their single pivot – are there any real drawbacks to this ? I’d like to start doing more maintenance on my bikes myself so the simplicity appeals to me for a start … but are they out dated compared with more modern designs.

Any advice from owners would be great.

Thanks.

I would suggest that Cy Turner may take issue with calling single pivot suspensions out dated-all of the Cotic Droplink bikes are SP

Have you riden a recent Five? Might be an eye opener

To answer your question, in my opinion there is no drawback to a properly designed single pivot suspension system, and a number of potential advantages

Obviously their single pivot – are there any real drawbacks to this ? I’d like to start doing more maintenance on my bikes myself so the simplicity appeals to me for a start … but are they out dated compared with more modern designs.

I think the original patent for the VPP actually pre-dates the Orange 5, so it’s not outdated in that sense!

They ride differently, as do different single pivots and multi-pivots, and single pivots with linkages (Kona, Cotic, Transition, etc, although a lot now use Horst links since Specializeds patent lapsed). If you can I’d get a demo on one, and on whatever else you’re considering. 50/50 you may actually prefer an Orange to a Santa Cruz, I know I did (although I preferred Specialized and Giant’s more but for different reasons, I found FSR felt like it did it’s job with the lest fuss so you just had to get on and ride, the Giant was a good compromise between that and a bit of fun).

As for maintenance, it’s hard to argue against the ability to change the main bearing for £14 and that being it (apart from suspension bushings), a full set of bearings for a VPP or FSR can look extortionate! The flip side is, modern bikes eat their bearings far less than they used to, plenty of SC and Specialised owners will have never replaced a bearing.

Regardless of that, geometry has a bigger impact, SC may be better than they were 5 years ago, but I still find they feel incredibly tall and short (but despite that, really hard to wheelie!)

plenty of SC and Specialised owners will have never replaced a bearing

Because the bearings are free for life if you take it to a dealer (modern SCs anyway)

Obviously their single pivot – are there any real drawbacks to this ?

Do you think Orange would’ve persisted all these years making them if there were?

The whole bike will make more of a difference than the number of pivots. Try one.

Because the bearings are free for life if you take it to a dealer (modern SCs anyway)

………..because they’ve finally managed to build bikes that don’t eat bearings.

Conversely the bearings on an Enduro are/were £110 for the pivot kit (included the bolts and spacers, if you were careful you could probably use £60 of bearings from a bearing shop), plus labour (about 2 hours). On the upside they last a long time (i didn’t ride enough to wear them out, and apparently next owner hasn’t either).

tbh thats what i’ve been looking for in my next bike.

i’m riding a 26er superlight, and want a similar setup when i go 29er / (650b). not looked in anger, but so far something the salsa horsethief looks like its the perfect thing. something more available would be nicer. (Also nice is the UK made Starling!)

me.. i want a little bit more squish than a hardtail, but not took much (personally believe for a lot of poeple > 120mm travel is being overbiked?)

Looking at the number of single pivots (particularly if you count bikes with linkage actuated shocks as single pivot) out there, I’d say it’s far from outdated.

There are potential/theoretical drawbacks, but trying one and seeing if you like it is the only way to go really.

me.. i want a little bit more squish than a hardtail, but not took much (personally believe for a lot of poeple > 120mm travel is being overbiked?)

Depends where you ride and what you like.

For a whole loop, a hardtail (or even a CX bike) would be quickest overall in a lot of situations. But then in the Peak district I always found 150mm to be a slog on the way up, but only just enough to make some of the descents fun! It just depends where you want to compromise. although I’d agree ~120mm is probably a good point between climbing quickly and descending capably.

The only thing I would say about my orange , even though it was a patriot, was the back end was very flexi … from side to side

The suspension worked fine …
And it was very noisy ..

Definitely need to try some different SP bikes out before you decide.

I have a Rocket now and had an Alpine previously. Both single pivot (although one obviously has a linkage driven shock), both same shock, both same build components, both same weight, both same geometry to within <5mm and a degree or so. Only difference is the Alpine was 26 and the Rocket’s 650b. Wildly different to ride – the Alpine just made me want to straightline everything as it would just soak it up, the Rocket needs more riding and is more involving. The Alpine rear end twisted and deflected round stuff which felt good but is terrifying to watch (having followed mates on them), the Rocket is so much stronger at the back and skips over stuff instead. The Alpine was more comfortable but I much prefer the Rocket, and it’s marginally quicker at my ability according to Strava.

I wouldn’t go back to a single pivot. I have had a few over the years and at the time liked them. I now have VPP which is much nicer. I tried a new orange 5 recently and I didn’t like it at all. Just felt like it was folding in the middle instead of doing whatever a multi pivot does. It felt like it relied to heavily on the shock instead of good frame design. Pedal bob was horrendous too. Even the owner of the 5 said his bike felt a bit rubbish after riding mine and he was going to look at changing it. I don’t worry about bearings either. They last long enough and are cheap enough (free now from santacruz) that changing them once in a while isn’t a worthy consideration when choosing a frame. It doesn’t take much longer to do 8 bearings than 2 when the frame is in bits anyway. I wouldn’t but up with a rubbish bike just to save a few £££ on bearings.
Its all down to personal preference at the end of the day.

I used to have a 2007 Orange Five, which I got after a few years of riding a hardtail. I switched the Five for an Ibis Mojo in 2010 and the main difference I noticed suspension wise was that the Mojo’s rear suspension stayed active under braking. I’m not sure I was really aware when I had it that the Five’s was stiffening up under braking but when I changed to a bike that didn’t do it, the change was obvious.

I remember Rocky Mountain saying that they’d avoided having braking affect some of their linkage driven single pivot bikes but I don’t know how widespread doing that is, or if it can be done on linkage free single pivots.

There are plenty of SP bikes that get storming reviews so they are not bad bikes or poor designs. Every bike will ride differently and that is not a function of one specific feature of the bike, eg suspension design, wheel size, geometry etc. it is a melting pot of all those things that make a good bike good.

VPP bikes that ride great don’t ride great wholly because of there VPP suspension.

Stuff may get better but of the Oranges I tried I was never blown away like the reviews in here go.
On bearings I thought I had done my 2nd bearing in 3 years on my Blur Ltc, turn out it was the shock bushing instead…. so in 3 years I’ve changed as many bearings as an Orange has. Works for me, the ride is exceptional too

Funnily enough, i was contemplating this last night while trying to work out why i’m enjoying my Rocket Max so much. As much as i loved the FSR Stumpy Evo, the single pivot seems to suit my riding much better. It jumps better (more predictable), manuals better – the FSR seemed change shape more on the back wheel and it exits corners better. The Stumpy felt nicer in the corner but a bit vague on the exit. Vague isn’t the right word but it seems to suck a little bit of pump whereas the Rocket gives it all back – if that makes sense. Going down fast rough stuff the FSR was a touch more composed and although the Rocket is rowdier, i like that aspect too (though i’m still not 100% on the ideal rear shock pressure).

In short, i don’t regret it.

Each to his/her own but personally, every SP I’ve ridden felt crude and basic.

The thing that sells single pivot to me is the creak factor. It’s no real drama to change one set of bearings in the hunt for the elusive creak. Something like a Trance must be an absolute nightmare.

I had a trance. It never creaked. The bearings needed changing once in 6 years and they were pretty easy to change.

The thing that sells single pivot to me is the creak factor. It’s no real drama to change one set of bearings in the hunt for the elusive creak.

Agreed, one of the reasons I have a Five. Let’s be honest, the difference in suspension feel between frames isn’t actually that pronounced. I’ve ridden trail centre sections with the rear locked out and not realised until the bottom.

Whenever single pivot bikes are mentioned everyone goes on about how cheap it is to replace bearings… if money is an issue then you probably shouldn’t be looking at Orange as they aren’t exactly known for being cheap.

The other thing about buying an Orange is that you’ll most likely turn into a total nobber on the internet.

Let’s be honest, the difference in suspension feel between frames isn’t actually that pronounced. I’ve ridden trail centre sections with the rear locked out and not realised until the bottom.

User error? Smooth trail?
I took my Blur Ltc out for the first time on a local trail, there was a rough corner section that the back always stepped out on and was never on control on the SP bike, stuck like glue on the VPP, had to re learn to jump as the back end felt glued to the floor most of the time. FSR was similar, where it dropped into holes and hugged the floor as opposed to SP that kicked off and skipped. It’s different in the bigger stuff though but the bits I like the most are the floor hugging

I’m a total nobber but don’t have an Orange,will they give me a discount?

I own several VPP style bikes and a couple of SP (one is an Orange). SP just feels different, that’s all. Not bad or better, just different. If I could be bothered to notice whether the rear end was locking out under braking or not – I probably wouldn’t be focussing on other cool things, such as enjoying riding a bike fast down a trail 😆

I’ve gone from a 26″ giant reign with 170mm to an orange Segment with 110mm. It feels great, it bobs uphill with the shock fully open which is the same as the giant.

The segment is a really nice bike. Any reason not to try and demo one?

If you are looking for a new bike, start cycles had orange 4rs at £1000 the 2017 ones

i`ve had an orange, then lots of multipivot bikes.

i`m back on a single pivot. i quite like it but its totally personal preferance.

bearings for my new one (empire) are expensive!

i`m liking all the chat about mulitpivot bikes not eating bearings anymore – in my experience, and the loosely associated riding group i hang out with, that is definately not the case.

Ive had multi link systems from Yetis and Whytes and now ride a filing cabinet ,yes im a nobber ,yes i like breakjack and yes im a fanboi but i love the way the bike hops and skips about..

Now i await the “i bet he drives an Audi too ” quote

Can i have a discount at Stainland

i`m liking all the chat about mulitpivot bikes not eating bearings anymore – in my experience, and the loosely associated riding group i hang out with, that is definately not the case.

it depends a lot on the bike and the design, due to the constant battering of MP bikes I had half convinced myself it was the bearings in the top rocker that had gone on mine, pulling it all apart behind the metal outer plate, then the inner rubber seal then the intact bearing seals the axle was still well greased after 3 hard years… SC seem to have got it sorted now, others may not have. It was the DU bush in the end

I demoed an Orange 4 yesterday from Alpine Bikes in Innerleithen. I don’t know much about suspension systems, but it was an amazing bike.

To answer your question, in my opinion there is no few drawbacks to a properly designed single pivot suspension system, and a number of potential advantages

This. ‘Pure’ single-pivots do feel and react differently to multi-pivots, which can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your point of view. I found I can feel what’s going on more and predict the reaction of the shock, whereas on good multi-pivot bikes it’s hard to tell when the shock is doing its stuff. It really is personal preference, but personally I’m all in favour – less to go wrong.

There’s also a shedload of single-pivot bikes out there masquerading as multi-pivot – the Saracen range holds several, not to mention pre-Horst Link Transitions.

Hate to say it, but best thing is to ride one.

Let’s be honest, the difference in suspension feel between frames isn’t actually that pronounced. I’ve ridden trail centre sections with the rear locked out and not realised until the bottom.

You’ve dug a hole for yourself there. You admit to not being sensitive to your bike then want us to believe your statement about suspension feel…

Nothing at all wrong with single pivot bikes. Try a Five or the new Alpine6 and you’ll soon see. Take a look on Orange’s website and read a couple of the reviews for these bikes. And talk to owners, and ask the many alpine guides who ride them and rate them, not just because they handle brilliantly and they’re fun, but because they last very well and need relatively little maintenance despite being hammered day after day.

And talk to owners, and ask the many alpine guides who ride them and rate them…

*Cough*

I used to be one.

*/Cough*

I have had a few of both types of bike, and whether they feel good or bad often comes down to the geometry and the quality and set up of the rear damper. Get a good shock well set up and how may pivots it has got should be the major issue.. design and execution will be. Generally I have found that single pivot bikes highlight a bad shock more.. can feel awful. But stick a CCDB Air or similar on it and fettle it right and it can feel just as good as a multi-pivot bike.

And talk to owners, and ask the many alpine guides who ride them and rate them…

Slightly different usage though, as a guide the cost of bearings is probably of less concern than having to wait for a shop to do them even if they were free!

The other thing about buying an Orange is that you’ll most likely turn into a total nobber on the internet.

how long have you had yours?

my advice is buy the bike you want in the colour you like. then you will be happy.

single pivot bikes and various other designs (i sent from a five to a liteville btw (horst)) ride differently. It will take a while for you to get the best from any new bike so just buy what you like and ride it.

Yes you can get brake jack and it can feel bendy. Sometimes thats a good thing. Some times its not. Bearings can fail quickly on some bikes. You need to service them. This is all down to how and where ytou ride. I can kill a set in 3 months. Others will take years. Just look after whatever bike you get.

Ive spent a lot of time recently having a go on others bikes and it makes me appreciate mine more tbh. when you find one you like go buy that 🙂

Yes you can get brake jack

You really can’t. The suspension extends cos your weight goes forwards and there’s nothing to counter it. Dropper posts help sort that out though.

A shock like an X2 or a CCDB will go a logn way to addressing any supposed deficiencies of a single pivot. Quite like the made-in-a-shed bloody-mindedness of Orange myself.