Singlejobtrackworld- current salary share or not

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  • Singlejobtrackworld- current salary share or not
  • chunkymonkey
    Member

    Maybe give him your salary expectations rather than what you currently earn – no idea I’m afraid so likely to get ‘flamed’ shortly by someone in recruitment! 🙄

    Junkyard
    Member

    Normally I would say tell the truth but in this case lie

    Aidy
    Member

    If it’s a recruiter I’d just lie – I mean, they’ll be lying to both you and any prospective employers anyway. 🙂

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Tell them you get paid the same as Wayne Rooney, but for the right job you may be prepared to compromise slightly

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    Yep, “in the region of…”

    its 15 – 30% of your salary as commission, the higher, the more bothered they will be to help.

    Be prepared to be treated like a commodity to be bought and sold, also, send a CV as a locked document / pdf as changes / embellishments have been known to be made to get the right number of candidates through to interview, i.e., be paid for the number the client wanted to see.

    Cynic though I am, there are good recruiters out there, if you find one they can work wonders.

    titusrider
    Member

    Might move jobs at some point, likely to be through a recruitment consultant (I know…)

    Hopefully I’ve found a good one but obviously wants to know my salary. I am currently underpaid for my skills, experience and sector. (No really, I am) and don’t want this to distort what they are willing to pay.

    Should I hide my current salary?
    How do I dodge questions?

    I just applied for a job directly with a company.

    After providing a whole lot of seemingly irrelevant information (why the heck to they need my passport number at this stage?) it asked current and expected sallary. Much as I want the job, I’m not giving them the upper hand in any negotiations, they know what the long term staff sallary would be for the job, I know I’m on a back foot already being jobless. Sticking an arbitrary 15-20% on my last sallary would put me at the mid to top end, at the other end there’s a figure 20% less than my last sallary which would pay the mortgage and bills, but not much else, then there’s the whole package of paying for training courses, potential for uplifted assignments etc.

    So I played their own game and found that “competitive” was an acceptable answer in the box!

    Premier Icon xora
    Subscriber

    Best advice I was ever given was salary is always negotiable. If the company want you then they will argue you down so start high and see what happens.

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    I don’t understand why you’d need to lie about your current salary – in my industry recruiters generally get 15% of placement salary as their commission so it’s in their interest to get as much for you as possible.

    If you tell an agent a lie, which he then passes on to your potential new employer, they’ll only find out you were lying when they get your P45/references anyway.

    Aidy
    Member

    I don’t understand why you’d need to lie about your current salary – in my industry recruiters generally get 15% of placement salary as their commission so it’s in their interest to get as much for you as possible.

    Not really – it’s in their interests to place as many candidates as possible.

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    Not if there’s only one vacancy! I guess every industry is different.

    oldmanmtb
    Member

    Tell them what you get paid, tell them there would have to be a significant rise in line with current market rates for you to move jobs. Simple its old fashioned sales chuck the ball back in their court if they want your skills they have to make a sensible offer. You might want to ask for a RPI + 2% pay rise over he next three years just to ensure you progress income wise

    lobby_dosser
    Member

    it’s none of their business what your salary is. Tell them your salary expectations.

    stevemuzzy
    Member

    Threads like this give me lots if concern for my industry. Ok. 1. Not all rec people work on commision. (I don’t, no one in my company does) 2. Telling your salary truthully is important. How would you feel if the company said “salary for the job is whatever we think but wont tell you till after we interview you” 3. You wont be treated like a comodity if you use a good company, they will be paid to put the best person in the job… 4. Its such a big thing moving your job that working in partnership with a recruiter who actually understands your motivations really helps you get the right thing. Why start that relationship with not being honest about salary? You would want them to be honest about the job/company….

    Its a frustration that due to a few numptys out there acting like coke fuelled yuppies a whole industry gets tarnished, its almost like job racism… along the lines of estate agent? = ****. Bike shop owner =rip off merchant getting huge margins……

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    Tell them and be honest. Also be honest about your expectations. Everyone moves for a pay increase. Actually a bug bear of mine that there tends to be a salary ceiling for internal movers in a company, but they’ll chuck money at external candidates. No one blinks about giving an external candidate a 30% pay rise, but they get nose bleeds if an internal candidate asks for the same 🙄 I get recruiters contacting me via LinkedIn a lot. I’m not interested in moving, but the first thing I tell them is my salary, and say unless the position they’ve contacted me about pays more, then lets not waste each other’s time.

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately Steve, that’s the rub.. There is a gap between what my clients experience and your points, in the main…

    Like estate agents….. There are great people out there, hence “the recommend me an ……” Threads

    People move for loads of reasons, one being money, others typically…
    Dreadful manager
    Bullying
    Distance of commute
    Under used / bored
    Family
    House prices

    Everyone is different …

    Aidy
    Member

    2. Telling your salary truthully is important. How would you feel if the company said “salary for the job is whatever we think but wont tell you till after we interview you”

    More like, how would the company feel if you asked for all of the salaries were for their employees with similar job titles?

    lobby_dosser
    Member

    2. Telling your salary truthully is important. How would you feel if the company said “salary for the job is whatever we think but wont tell you till after we interview you

    I just don’t get it why some Recruitment Agencies have this as a mandatory requirement (and others dont), especially if they are the ones contacting you. I always get RA’s contacting me through Linkedin ‘Dear Lobby- we’ve got a great opportunity for you blah blah- call us to discuss’ As soon as you call, the 1st thing they ask is what is your current salary? If you refuse to tell a stranger private information (between you and your current employer) the call goes no further. No skin off my back.

    But why is this so important and why would you tell this to a stranger ? Why would you set a limit on your earnings or restrict the number of roles that may interest you?

    Salary expectations should be based on the role, size of company, responsibilities, location, amount of travel required etc.

    The key question should be what salary range would you consider. Everyone has different motivations for moving.

    Don’t get me started on GGS either.

    geetee1972
    Member

    There is no reason to hide your salary from the recruitment consultant. Indeed if they are worth their fee they will be best placed to help you evaluate real value and advise on how best to negotiate.

    And on the point under no circumstances should you ever tell a potential employer what you’re currently earning. It’s just not relevant in any situation and is frankly none of their business. It can only weaken your negotiation position especially if you’re currently underpaid.

    If they ask you and you say no and they say but we need to know if we can afford you, you can simply say we’ll tell me the range you’re looking to pay and I will tell you whether we are aligned.

    jimbobo
    Member

    I dealt with an agency recently… I told them my current salary, plus my expenses, plus costs that I would incur with a new job (I currently work from home, and get various “expenses payments” that I wouldn’t get elsewhere. That said I was willing to accept a £5k pay cut for the role.

    Greybeard
    Member

    geetee, I don’t follow that. I agree with why you don’t tell a potential employer your current salary, but why would then tell a recruiter who is working for them? It’s the same thing, surely?

    DT78
    Member

    This is a bugbear of mine.

    I say what I want not what I earn. Last time I had a job offer they refused to give higher than a 15% rise as it was there policy even though I knew the salary Banding for the role had significant head room. They weren’t taking into account I have a final salary pension and other better perks which is important for your total benefits package.. Didn’t take the job but left a sour taste about being honest. It is supposed to be a negotiation giving away your hand does not put you in a good place.

    As for agents, the ones I work with do pass on current salary and salary expectations to me as a hiring manager.

    geetee1972
    Member

    But why is this so important and why would you tell this to a stranger ? Why would you set a limit on your earnings or restrict the number of roles that may interest you?

    Salary expectations should be based on the role, size of company, responsibilities, location, amount of travel required etc.

    So true. I would add to that list of dependencies though that the most important one is that both sides’ expectations should be based on them wanting to hire you and you wanting the job. Before that any conversation about salary is premature to say the least.

    geetee1972
    Member

    geetee, I don’t follow that. I agree with why you don’t tell a potential employer your current salary, but why would then tell a recruiter who is working for them? It’s the same thing, surely?

    Well yes, fair point. The answer is that you can request that that information is kept confidential and I would be requiring them to agree to that as part of the conversation.

    The recruiter is working for the potential employer but this is where they do add value; they can act as a buffer to information so that they can know both positions (what you’re earning and looking for and what the employer is willing to pay) without that information being revealled to either side.

    It would also be tricky to deny the information to a recruiter. It would make you look antagonistic and argumentative so the better approach is to tell but require it to be kept confidential. Ultimately of course it comes down to trust. If you don’t feel you can trust the recruiter then don’t tell them and perhaps don’t use them to find a job.

    Lastly, while the recruiter does work for the employer their primary goal is to get your a job offer that you want to accept. Typically they won’t get paid unless that happens so it’s in their interests to match your needs with the employers and that includes the salary component. If you’re underpaid by say 20% and you actually want a 30% rise to move, then the recruiter knowing that is useful.

    Aidy
    Member

    If you’re underpaid by say 20% and you actually want a 30% rise to move, then the recruiter knowing that is useful.

    It’s useful for the recruiter to know how much leverage they have.

    I’m not convinced it’s useful for you, unless you particularly want to be haggled down from your target salary.

    geetee1972
    Member

    It’s a judgement call. Basic principle of all negotiation is that the more you know the stronger your negotiation position so in theory yes, telling anyone your current salary weakens your position in some way.

    If the recruiter won’t guarantee confidentiality for your current salary or you feel that you can engage with them successfully by only telling them what your expectations are for the next role (they will need to know at least this and it should be just slightly north of unrealistic) then I agree not telling them is best.

    hels
    Member

    As GT says – depends very much on the context. I wouldn’t tell a recruiter, they have no right to that information – tell them what you want. If you get the job you will have to be honest with your new employer, but then they should have advertised a salary, or at least given you a ballpark figure before the interview.

    Any attempt to base their offer on your current salary is nonsense.

    allan23
    Member

    Recruiters are a nightmare and should be all shot 🙂

    Had one recently that just added £3k onto my salary expectations bacuase it was in the range the employer had suggested to them.

    Found out at interview that the employer had given them the range they had internally for the job and the recruiter was sending them people all at the top end as it maximised his commission.

    Not sure if it’s just IT recruiters but can’t help thinking they’re more of an unecessary barrier than a benefit.

    I give an expected circa figure to the recruiters now and if it crops up with the interviewer I’ll go with a gut feeling if I think it would be beneficial to be more honest with them. Screw the recruiters though, it’s not them I’d be working for.

    titusrider
    Member

    The rough ballpark here is that I was on 55k in specialist industry- moved two years ago into generalist company continuing to do the same work for pay cut. Now on 50k.

    College who I was at the same level and skills as in specialist industry has reached 80kish

    Specialist industry job advertised as 50-80k and I want to make sure I’m at the higher end. Anyway so it’s quite a big difference to me and I think saying I’m on 50 would put you off paying 80? GT/Steve, thoughts?

    geetee1972
    Member

    Had one recently that just added £3k onto my salary expectations bacuase it was in the range the employer had suggested to them.

    OK so let me make sure I understand this correctly. You stated your salary expectations with them but because the recruiter knew that the employer was willing to pay more, they decided to increase your expectation in communication with the client so that you didn’t undersell yourself.

    And this is a problem because?

    I’d say they earned your respect and admiration that day (though probably not their client’s fee since they just cost them more money!)

    geetee1972
    Member

    I’m on 50 would put you off paying 80? GT/Steve, thoughts?

    If I were the employer and I knew that you were only earning £50k now then I might use that to leverage you down in a salary negotiation but honestly, being the smart person I am, the greater influence would be how good I thought you were and obviously if I’ve offered you the job, I must think you’re the best candidate.

    It won’t put anyone off. It absolutely will influence the negotiation. It will only be an influence then and so it will only matter once they are ready to offer you the job.

    Thus if anyone asks what you’re earning now, you simply say ‘I’m looking for around £80k thanks’.

    Really the only time what you earn now might be considered a problem is if you’re earning way more than they are able to pay (and by the way, what a company says it’s wiling to pay is NEVER their ‘walk away’ point, there will always be wiggle room for a candidate who can demonstrate they are worth just a little bit more). In that situation (where you are earning more than the advertised band) the question will then be ‘why do they want this job?’ Most people aren’t looking to take a salary cut so they will want to understand why.

    BTW I work in sales capability training and negotiation is one of the subjects we teach.

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    I think GT has it,

    Separate ability and fee as two different conversations, ensure that the employer appreciates that your the strongest applicant and make the salary piece a separate conversation once they place you as the best candidate.

    A bit of a challenge for people who have been promoted year in, year out in a company and then go to the open market, it may be you are paid beyond market rate.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Can’t you just leave the field on the form blank? That’s probably what I’d do.

    MrNice
    Member

    Any attempt to base their offer on your current salary is nonsense.

    it should be nonsense (i.e. you should be paid for what you contribute) but this is exactly what employers do. If you’re currently underpaid relative to the market they’ll offer you a nice rise to tempt you in but not more than that so they save budget for other people/things.

    allan23
    Member

    And this is a problem because?

    I’d say they earned your respect and admiration that day (though probably not their client’s fee since they just cost them more money!)

    Going slightly away from the topic.

    It’s a problem because the employer wanted someone at my salary expectation – not the recruiter inflated figure. I was up against an internal transfer who was expecting the same salary as me. The question in interview was why should I choose you expecting £x, over my cheaper internal candidate? The £x surprised me as it was not what I’d told the recruiter.

    Adding to that was the huge difference in what the role was and what my CV was lead me to believe that the recruiter had made minimal effort to understand the requirements of his customer. Respect and admiration are quite probably the last things I think of when dealing with IT recuitment from both sides of the interviewing process.

    geetee1972
    Member

    It’s a problem because the employer wanted someone at my salary expectation – not the recruiter inflated figure.

    Ah I see. I took it that the employer was actually prepared to pay a higher rate than you’d asked for so the recruiter took the decision to move your expectation more in line with he employer’s.

    The question in interview was why should I choose you expecting £x, over my cheaper internal candidate?

    To which a good answer might have been:

    ‘Well I can’t speak about a candidate I know nothing about and even if I did, I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to try and sell myself in that way, but let me show why I think I am worth what I am asking for…..’

    geetee1972
    Member

    This is an interesting and alternative perspective to the issue of being asked to declare you current salary. It only relates to one state in the US but it underliens the point well (that declaring your current salary to a potential employer does impact your negotiation position).

    Law preventing potential employers asking you current salary

    allan23
    Member

    ‘Well I can’t speak about a candidate I know nothing about and even if I did, I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to try and sell myself in that way, but let me show why I think I am worth what I am asking for…..’

    I’ll remember that one, I gave it away by looking shocked at a salary I’d not had mentioned before.

    From the interview, the salary was within my expectation. The upper figure the recruiter used was the headroom for advancement after being in the role for a while, there was some flexibility but not as much as the recruiter took away from the job spec or added onto my expectation.

    I did get the horrible impression that I was the token external candidate to conform with a company policy, with enough experience to justify calling in but not as much as the internal candidate and wasn’t surprised when I got excellent feedback but they had hired internally 🙂

    geetee1972
    Member

    I did get the horrible impression that I was the token external candidate to conform with a company policy

    Yeah that sucks when it happens. The thing is that it’s never a done deal; if you can show you’re the better candidate then they absolutely would still hire you, why wouldn’t they.

    Premier Icon rickmeister
    Subscriber

    if you can show you’re the better candidate then they absolutely would still hire you, why wouldn’t they

    How about this hardy perennial:

    You’re too qualified / experienced for the role

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